Movistar Tactics

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Aug 4, 2010
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Jagartrott said:
They had 4 riders in front (Castroviejo et al.), which was a perfect situation, yet they continue playing it safe.
I hope they win 0 stages in this Tour.
one of the most hillarious moments in cycling I have ever seen :eek:
 
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Jagartrott said:
They had 4 riders in front (Castroviejo et al.), which was a perfect situation, yet they continue playing it safe.
I hope they win 0 stages in this Tour.
That didn't take long, did it?
Those extra riders were easily shed. After a few minutes it was back to Valverde and Quintana.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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DFA123 said:
hulkhogansknees said:
DFA123 said:
SeriousSam said:
Consolidated 2nd and 3rd, great result. Quintana just needs to go on and win Alpe d'huez now. The best reasonably achievable result against a superior rider in Chris Froome.
Spot on. A lot of Contador fans seem keen to bash their tatics, but Contador is a rival as much as Froome is. Movistar have tried to attack Froome on the last three mountain stages, but Froome has been too strong and has never looked in any trouble.

Going on an extremely optimistic long range attack, which is highly likely to end in failure just isn't a sensible tactic, however, much fans may wish for it to happen. Nor is it sensible to let the main threat to your GC position get up the road with team-mates in support - especially when it is a rider of the quality of Contador.
Then why not join him instead of chasing him down and doing Sky's job for them?
Because it was an attack that Contador had planned, with team mates up the road. Why should Movistar ride to Contador's plans, which have obviously been drawn up to give Contador the best chance of gaining time? Perhaps their riders didn't want to go on such a long break, or thought it was futile and would have left them vulnerable to a counter attack in the race.

I think it's important not to conflate exciting racing (i.e. what we want to see as fans), with what are actually the most effective tactics for the riders.
don't you think that's benefit moviestar too? they need to burn froome's domestique. Sky won't bother chasing contador. If they join contador, sky has to chase. At the end they got what they need it to do. Moviestar also has the rider up on the road. By making the status quo.. then what? quitana didn't even manage to do anything. Even they got strength in number, they can't do nothing. That's why it's puzzling what moviestar did. They want to protect valverde spot.
 
Jul 19, 2014
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DFA123 said:
hulkhogansknees said:
DFA123 said:
SeriousSam said:
Consolidated 2nd and 3rd, great result. Quintana just needs to go on and win Alpe d'huez now. The best reasonably achievable result against a superior rider in Chris Froome.
Spot on. A lot of Contador fans seem keen to bash their tatics, but Contador is a rival as much as Froome is. Movistar have tried to attack Froome on the last three mountain stages, but Froome has been too strong and has never looked in any trouble.

Going on an extremely optimistic long range attack, which is highly likely to end in failure just isn't a sensible tactic, however, much fans may wish for it to happen. Nor is it sensible to let the main threat to your GC position get up the road with team-mates in support - especially when it is a rider of the quality of Contador.
Then why not join him instead of chasing him down and doing Sky's job for them?
Because it was an attack that Contador had planned, with team mates up the road. Why should Movistar ride to Contador's plans, which have obviously been drawn up to give Contador the best chance of gaining time? Perhaps their riders didn't want to go on such a long break, or thought it was futile and would have left them vulnerable to a counter attack in the race.

I think it's important not to conflate exciting racing (i.e. what we want to see as fans), with what are actually the most effective tactics for the riders.
Movistar had riders up the road as well...
 
Aug 4, 2011
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If Bertie attacks , you sit on Froome's wheel and wait for him to react. He would have to at some point. He could not let Bertie get to far out .Movie star suck Froomes wheel then when he's reeled Bertie back or used a lot of energy BOOM off goes Valverde. If Froome can react to Valverde then Quintana is still sucking his wheel , soon has Froome reels in Valverde or his even more tired, BOOM Quintana attacks....Its not rocket science. Not letting Bertie get away could well have cost movie the tour.
 
ray j willings said:
If Bertie attacks , you sit on Froome's wheel and wait for him to react. He would have to at some point. He could not let Bertie get to far out .Movie star suck Froomes wheel then when he's reeled Bertie back or used a lot of energy BOOM off goes Valverde. If Froome can react to Valverde then Quintana is still sucking his wheel , soon has Froome reels in Valverde or his even more tired, BOOM Quintana attacks....Its not rocket science. Not letting Bertie get away could well have cost movie the tour.
Sky wouldn't even consider starting chasing until Contador was 5 minutes up the road. Then Porte and Thomas would control the gap until Movistar realizes that they are losing podium spot.
Contador is not a danger to Froome.

And if Valverde followed then Sky would let them win by 4 minutes and just save strength and laugh watching Quintana begin to panic once he hits 4th in virtual GC.
Movistar's only choice was to chase because all other alternatives are much less desirable
 
Jul 19, 2010
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damian13ster said:
ray j willings said:
If Bertie attacks , you sit on Froome's wheel and wait for him to react. He would have to at some point. He could not let Bertie get to far out .Movie star suck Froomes wheel then when he's reeled Bertie back or used a lot of energy BOOM off goes Valverde. If Froome can react to Valverde then Quintana is still sucking his wheel , soon has Froome reels in Valverde or his even more tired, BOOM Quintana attacks....Its not rocket science. Not letting Bertie get away could well have cost movie the tour.
Sky wouldn't even consider starting chasing until Contador was 5 minutes up the road. Then Porte and Thomas would control the gap until Movistar realizes that they are losing podium spot.
Contador is not a danger to Froome.

And if Valverde followed then Sky would let them win by 4 minutes and just save strength and laugh watching Quintana begin to panic once he hits 4th in virtual GC.
Movistar's only choice was to chase because all other alternatives are much less desirable
i was about to say the same thing. it's silly for froome to chase contador. Why? let just sit and see if moviestar chases. Because they have too, unless valverde is ready to give up the podium. Which is not going to happen. The question is.. does moviestar too greedy trying to protect both podium spot? Sometimes when you want it all, you loose them all.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Before today Bertie was 4 minutes behind , Froome cannot let Bertie go.
You are assuming that Froome/sky could reel Bertie back. That is not a given. Berte has done it before.
Froome and Sky would be on the case as soon as they realise no one else is going to chase. You can't let Berti have 2 minutes never mind 5.
All movie would have to do is wait until Froome chases and suck Sky wheels.
If they want Quintana to win they have to put Sky under pressure ,Bertie was perfect for that.
Movie seems lost for ideas.
If Bertie attacks tomorrow and he will if he can and Movie do the same thing again .....Fools
 
ray j willings said:
If Bertie attacks , you sit on Froome's wheel and wait for him to react. He would have to at some point. He could not let Bertie get to far out .Movie star suck Froomes wheel then when he's reeled Bertie back or used a lot of energy BOOM off goes Valverde. If Froome can react to Valverde then Quintana is still sucking his wheel , soon has Froome reels in Valverde or his even more tired, BOOM Quintana attacks....Its not rocket science. Not letting Bertie get away could well have cost movie the tour.
Movistar gave up on winning the Tour one week ago, so they are unable to see any loss in what happened.
 
ray j willings said:
Before today Bertie was 4 minutes behind , Froome cannot let Bertie go.
You are assuming that Froome/sky could reel Bertie back. That is not a given. Berte has done it before.
Froome and Sky would be on the case as soon as they realise no one else is going to chase. You can't let Berti have 2 minutes never mind 5.
All movie would have to do is wait until Froome chases and suck Sky wheels.
If they want Quintana to win they have to put Sky under pressure ,Bertie was perfect for that.
Movie seems lost for ideas.
If Bertie attacks tomorrow and he will if he can and Movie do the same thing again .....Fools

There is zero evidence to say otherwise. So far the domestiques pulled him back very easily and very fast (Porte and Thomas alone). So why would it suddenly be different, especially since they had way more guys available and terrain wasn't that hard so drafting still helps a lot.
You can easily give him 5 minutes, and after 10-15km of riding alone and tiring himself Sky would make that time up whenever they wanted. Don't fool yourself. Not with Contador in current shape.

And even if he got close in GT then they could easily put him away on stages 18-20 after a massive effort today.
Letting Contador go had zero risk for Sky, only advantages. It was completely opposite for Movistar and thats why they chased
 
Can't really fault Quintana today, he tried several times.

But, what messed them up was Valverde having a stick up his butt about AC, and riding to secure his podium, rather than for Quintana to win.

If Valverde had worked with AC when he jumped across on ACs early attack, rather than just sitting on his wheel and shutting it down, we might have seen a very different stage, and a Froome in trouble on Allos, where Quintana could have hurt him.

Imo, Valverdes ego got in the way of the stage opening the race up again.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Froome was too strong for Valverde. When Quintana attacked he put Valverde under pressure. Froome saw that so when he caught Quintana he attacked and then Q and F rode away

Froome has been the equal to (or better than) every attack they have made after he's been isolated on any stage

This race would have been alot more volatile if Movi had not lost 2 minutes on a flat stage
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Jelantik said:
damian13ster said:
ray j willings said:
If Bertie attacks , you sit on Froome's wheel and wait for him to react. He would have to at some point. He could not let Bertie get to far out .Movie star suck Froomes wheel then when he's reeled Bertie back or used a lot of energy BOOM off goes Valverde. If Froome can react to Valverde then Quintana is still sucking his wheel , soon has Froome reels in Valverde or his even more tired, BOOM Quintana attacks....Its not rocket science. Not letting Bertie get away could well have cost movie the tour.
Sky wouldn't even consider starting chasing until Contador was 5 minutes up the road. Then Porte and Thomas would control the gap until Movistar realizes that they are losing podium spot.
Contador is not a danger to Froome.

And if Valverde followed then Sky would let them win by 4 minutes and just save strength and laugh watching Quintana begin to panic once he hits 4th in virtual GC.
Movistar's only choice was to chase because all other alternatives are much less desirable
i was about to say the same thing. it's silly for froome to chase contador. Why? let just sit and see if moviestar chases. Because they have too, unless valverde is ready to give up the podium. Which is not going to happen. The question is.. does moviestar too greedy trying to protect both podium spot? Sometimes when you want it all, you loose them all.
I agree ray j willings,
prior to stage 17 Quitana was -3:10 Valverde -4:02 & Contador -4:23 down
Contador's long range attack was perfect for Moviestar. All they had to do was wait until Froome felt a greater threat from Contador's move. Sooner or later Froome & Sky would react, they aren't going to risk letting Contador gain sufficient time.
So Moviestart wait, Sky react and burn off their riders in chase and isolating Froome (if Froome doesn't have to respond himself by then anyway). If/when Froome draws Contador back it opens up the door for Valverde &/or Quintana to then attack. They also need a lot of time & if they want to win the Tour then they have to chance their current position by gambling on allowing Contador free reign when he attacks.
Put Froome & Sky under pressure early enough on the mountains.

They aren't going to beat Froome they way they are currently racing.
 
Sep 19, 2013
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LaFlorecita said:
Well besides using Contador to tire out Sky, Movistar are now also all on their own by eliminating Contador from the battle. Good for their podium places, not good if they still had some illusions about yellow (I doubt it)
2nd and 3rd or 1st and 5/6th? Movi need to use Valverde today or its a double podium which is good but not great. Personally even if they did use Valverde which I don't think he'll agree to Froome is to strong and the way G's rode he'll probably steal the third podium spot dropping Alberto at some point. No Movi will keep their podiums but Nairo will try. Valverde needs to man up...
 
Apr 3, 2011
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cineteq said:
hrotha said:
Bunch of cowards.
Afrank said:
I'm starting to wonder if Quintana would be better off on another team.
Netserk said:
I truly hope Valverde will never ever finish higher than 2nd in any race left in his career.
You're all right. It's embarassing! :eek:
We may need a poll here: I vote for the eternal hellish "sprint-for-third-man" role.

I v
 

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