Movistar

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Brodeal and ferminal I like that you're defending movistar. I'd feel bad for them if there was no one to defend them.

Anyway I am really interested in what not only Piti but all the gc contenders other than sky are on. You know, it would be great if for example Alberto and Piti got caught with micro doses of epo in their blood and strange blood balues. They should say. Yes we doped but we had to :D that would make sky look even more ridiculous.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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Ferminal said:
Wait, they haven't failed a test for five years (with the exception of Costa's supplement issue), maybe they are clean.
How many tests Sky failed? Im sure around 200 to justify x'xxx thousands posts about doped sky :D

If sky is doped then movistar is 3x more doped. the only difference is that top guy sky is 2x better than movistar top guy.
 
Oct 21, 2012
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No, Sky's top dawg is nothing on Valverde. Valverde won around 50 consecutive races when he was a teenager. He had huge class and his ability and potential shone through at a very young age. The Dawg has turned up at about 26 to suddenly be better than Valverde.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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Alphabet said:
No, Sky's top dawg is nothing on Valverde. Valverde won around 50 consecutive races when he was a teenager. He had huge class and his ability and potential shone through at a very young age. The Dawg has turned up at about 26 to suddenly be better than Valverde.
After a lengthy court battle, he was suspended for two years as part of the Operación Puerto blood doping investigation, but he returned to competition in 2012 upon completion of the ban. (wiki)

Like all the doped spanish wonder kids wining so good for the past 10-15 years. They only started to calm down winning after few doctors got in jail.

Here is a proved doped guy, his talent means nothing in any comparasion, you don't know how much is talent and how much is drug, unfortunately for him.

Once someone is a proved doper he can't claim anything as results of his merits (talent, training, etc)

From my pov he could have been doped from age 15, cause thats how some team "develop" their sportsmans.
 
Oct 21, 2012
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I don't think anybody starts doping when they are pre-pubesecent. Valverde's streak of 50 wins in a row was between ages 11 and 13. It would be unthinkable for a boy or girl of that age to dope, but an even bigger stumbling block is that dope is expensive and the idea that a person who isn't from the very richest of families would start doping before they signed a pro contract is laughable.
 
Considering how easy it is to beat the tests, it's kind of silly to base your analysis of natural talent on who's been caught and who hasn't.

Still, Rui Costa and especially Quintana have shown more potential than Froome.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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hrotha said:
Considering how easy it is to beat the tests, it's kind of silly to base your analysis of natural talent on who's been caught and who hasn't.

Still, Rui Costa and especially Quintana have shown more potential than Froome.
Im not basing on that

what im saying is if you are a proved doper nobody can be sure how much of your success is because of talent/training or drugs

if you are not proved doper people only can guess because nobody really knows the formula between factors (talent, training, environment, education, psyhic, etc) and results.

So saying X is nothing compared to proved doper Y is just lol. It even doesn't matter who X is.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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If you can read wiki you can read CQ. Look at:
Valverdes 09 season
his 12 season
Froome's 09 season
his 12 season
Which were clean seasons? In which year was the peloton clean?
 
Jul 8, 2012
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EnacheV said:
How many tests Sky failed? Im sure around 200 to justify x'xxx thousands posts about doped sky :D

If sky is doped then movistar is 3x more doped. the only difference is that top guy sky is 2x better than movistar top guy.
Replace/sky/lance

Here we go again.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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lemoogle said:
Replace/sky/lance

Here we go again.
I don't know who's doped and who isn't. watts and other "scientific" numbers tell nothing useful, only med tests do.

I work on comparison and If's

Based on overall team performance, If Sky is doped then Movistar is 2x more doped. Also, there is nothing to prove that any team in TDF is doped.

That's pretty much the closer you can get to the truth atm.
 
EnacheV said:
I don't know who's doped and who isn't. watts and other "scientific" numbers tell nothing useful, only med tests do.

I work on comparison and If's

Based on overall team performance, If Sky is doped then Movistar is 2x more doped. Also, there is nothing to prove that any team in TDF is doped.

That's pretty much the closer you can get to the truth atm.
Never mind that Sky has been trashing around Movistar for 2 years now and is currently the number 1 ranked team in the world. And Froome is still in yellow and seemingly untouchable.

Historically there's a very good correlation between watt figures and doping. I'm sorry this makes you uncomfortable.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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hrotha said:
Historically there's a very good correlation between watt figures and doping. I'm sorry this makes you uncomfortable.
Sorry but that's statistics and statistics works "a little" when the samples are in extremely huge numbers, not a handfull at most.

Your correlation is just that "some of the winners were proved dopers" and only after blood test analysis proved it, not based on some meaningless numbers like watts/kg
 
Apr 20, 2012
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EnacheV said:
what im saying is if you are a proved doper nobody can be sure how much of your success is because of talent/training or drugs.
Now there is the flaw in you socalled argument. Valverde is not proved to have doped, his blood was found at the Madrid blood bank. Was he busted with a needle with a BB on the ceiling? No sir.

Movistar looked good yesterday, and yet Moreno/Poels/Voigt/Montfort and many others were able to cross on the Peyresourde.

This proves everyone dopes except for the clean ones.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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EnacheV said:
I don't know who's doped and who isn't. watts and other "scientific" numbers tell nothing useful, only med tests do.

I work on comparison and If's

Based on overall team performance, If Sky is doped then Movistar is 2x more doped. Also, there is nothing to prove that any team in TDF is doped.

That's pretty much the closer you can get to the truth atm.
This is a thread about Movistar - not Sky.
It seems odd that you complain about all the Sky posts here and then turn this thread in to one.

So as to return to subject - and since you work in comparisons - as no-one here has defended Movistar from doping, then by your comparison Sky are doping half as much.
Perhaps you want to rethink that strategy - and give Movistar your unconditional support as a clean team.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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Dr. Maserati said:
Perhaps you want to rethink that strategy - and give Movistar your unconditional support as a clean team.
I give them all support as a clean team, for me they are a clean team, until proved (by science and not by lol science like watts/kg and stuff like - they have 6 riders in top 25 peleton) doped.
 
May 26, 2009
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EnacheV said:
I give them all support as a clean team, for me they are a clean team, until proved (by science and not by lol science like watts/kg and stuff like - they have 6 riders in top 25 peleton) doped.
Dave Brailsford is this you?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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EnacheV said:
I give them all support as a clean team, for me they are a clean team, until proved (by science and not by lol science like watts/kg and stuff like - they have 6 riders in top 25 peleton) doped.
Since you work in comparison and stuff - can you do an analysis on Valverde from when he was doped (I think you alluded to since he was a child) to his current position of 2nd in the Tour, and if he is going better now as an older clean rider. Thanks.
 
May 26, 2010
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EnacheV said:
How many tests Sky failed? Im sure around 200 to justify x'xxx thousands posts about doped sky :D

If sky is doped then movistar is 3x more doped. the only difference is that top guy sky is 2x better than movistar top guy.
Dont dope and post at the same time, it dont work.....
 
May 26, 2010
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dlwssonic said:
movistar seems suspicious but nowhere near the level of chris froome.
Movistar 'seem' suspicious? Do you remember Piti wearing full gear and out training with Movistar while banned, that is how they feel about doping. No problemo
 

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