Museeuw calls for doping confessions

[Darryl Webster]

Museeuw and I go back a bit. This is from the 87 Amateur Three Days of Flanders, I,d ridden away from the field to win two stages but flatted on the last day to lose GC. There was nothing I saw to indicate he,d become the "talent" he became so I suspect doping his whole pro career to be very likely. This was his home turf. I'm in Yellow, Museeuw in Green.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/199784_10150205557317802_2078940_n.jpg

 

[D-Queued]

Museeuw and I go back a bit. This is from the 87 Amateur Three Days of Flanders, I,d ridden away from the field to win two stages but flatted on the last day to lose GC. There was nothing I saw to indicate he,d become the "talent" he became so I suspect doping his whole pro career to be very likely. This was his home turf. I'm in Yellow, Museeuw in Green.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/199784_10150205557317802_2078940_n.jpg

Thanks Darryl,

But, based upon Museeuw' comments and the fact that you rode in the 80s and 90s, is there something you want to come clean on here?

You know, if he was riding like a flatlander and you weren't, and all that??



Dave.

(This is a test of self-humor)

 

[Darryl Webster]

Thanks Darryl,

But, based upon Museeuw' comments and the fact that you rode in the 80s and 90s, is there something you want to come clean on here?

You know, if he was riding like a flatlander and you weren't, and all that??



Dave.

(This is a test of self-humor)

Lol, ner..I retired at end of 89..had a year of in 90..and raced for fun in 91 as an amateur till about august but found it to much working full time.

 

[FitSsikS]

Museeuw and I go back a bit. This is from the 87 Amateur Three Days of Flanders, I,d ridden away from the field to win two stages but flatted on the last day to lose GC. There was nothing I saw to indicate he,d become the "talent" he became so I suspect doping his whole pro career to be very likely. This was his home turf. I'm in Yellow, Museeuw in Green.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/199784_10150205557317802_2078940_n.jpg

 

[LauraLyn]

Note: I am a bad translator

Everyone was part of it, after a while it became a lifestyle.

You either jumped on the train, or were left behind. Everyone knew about each other but no one talked about it. This hypocritical attitude now harms us.

The only way to escape this deadly spiral is to break the silence

If all my ex colleagues would also open up, we'd get a long way

If the Armstrong case was ment to settle with the doping years, then this was at least good for something.

Because of the widespread doping use, the playing field was level

If we all rode completely clean, I'd still be the king of one day races in that time, and Armstrong still would have won 7 tours


I highly doubt the bolded part hehe .. ironically as it is, due to the individual nature of doping this can't just be "assumed", it's just another justification of a doper's mind. Also, not everyone wishes to go as far as another. Left aside that some people (hint la) just had a better program all together (more expensive, more advanced, inside knowledge, protected etc.).

This statement alone confirms to me that he (still) is a hypocrite, aside the fact that he just disproved his "only at the end of my career" story.

I'm glad he is saying this but he's still a 2 face to me, if he never got caught would he still say this? It's also easy to say this NOW, where was he a few years ago?

Your translations are very good, but as you said not perfect. It makes a difference reading it in the Flemish. I would not leap to the conclusion that he is a hypocrite. The Belgian atmosphere has been very laissez faire about doping. With Merckx (and Merckx) coming out in support of Armstrong and with Bruyneel at bat next, he is taking a leading position in opening the discussion in Belgium. He should be congratulated for that.

 

[LauraLyn]

“In the 80s and 90s everyone knew what each other was doing but never said a word about doping. Using doping was something everyone did. Eventually it became a part of your lifestyle."

In the 80s and 90s. Everyone.

So that includes Lemond, yes?

The translation above misses a word: He actually says "nearly everyone."

 

[LauraLyn]

In the 80s and 90s. Everyone.

So that includes Lemond, yes?

The story actually broke yesterday in Belgium, so a day before the Gazet van Antwerpen and Sporza.be reposted it. The original source I still cannot find, but this one gives us a fuller picture of what he said:

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/det...dso-nieuws-sport+(De+Standaard+Online:+Sport)

Hope it helps.

 

[Hematide]

The story actually broke yesterday in Belgium, so a day before the Gazet van Antwerpen and Sporza.be reposted it. The original source I still cannot find, but this one gives us a fuller picture of what he said:

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/det...dso-nieuws-sport+(De+Standaard+Online:+Sport)

Hope it helps.

Standaard cites GvA as original source, the complete interview is probably in the paper version of GVA

 

[LauraLyn]

Standaard cites GvA as original source, the complete interview is probably in the paper version of GVA

Thanks. Any sense of who he talked to? Is it on a website? I can't figure it.

 

[Hematide]

Thanks. Any sense of who he talked to? Is it on a website? I can't figure it.

No,no. It's on the paper version of GVA so not online except for people with paid online subscription. He probably talked to some random sports journalist.

I'll be in Antwerp tomorrow so if you're lucky, I'll find the GVA of a few days ago in someones paper trash

 

[LauraLyn]

No,no. It's on the paper version of GVA so not online except for people with paid online subscription. He probably talked to some random sports journalist.

I'll be in Antwerp tomorrow so if you're lucky, I'll find the GVA of a few days ago in someones paper trash

Now there's a real detective. Geniet ervan.

Still confused: Why does the GVA publish this on 7 September and others have it on 6 September and no reference to GVA?

 

[Big Doopie]

museew, what an absolute pr!ck!

he lied when he got caught.

and i love how he says "everyone did it"...particularly when he spanned the onset of epo, when some chose not to and lost their careers. meanwhile he cheated and went on to glory.

what a freakin' a$$wipe.

 

[Darryl Webster]

museew, what an absolute pr!ck!

he lied when he got caught.

and i love how he says "everyone did it"...particularly when he spanned the onset of epo, when some chose not to and lost their careers. meanwhile he cheated and went on to glory.

what a freakin' a$$wipe.

My thought exactly!..in 87 he was good, the local amateur big hitter in Flanders but he was no budding Lemond when he was Amateur ..I saw both race as top amateurs and Lemond was just another level entirely. You know it when you see it...and its only those riders that you know will be top pro,s. Riders just don't jump from merely good to worlds best when they turn pro. Not clean. Not in my book they don't
.

 

[blackcat]

Hmm, what's going on with his hair? Plugs?

hehehehe

Tom Boonen see was the exogenous testo supplementation aint good for the 5 alpha reductase.

 

[blackcat]

Museeuw is an idiot until he breaks omerta. Until he goes to WADA and gives a full confession to his doping, doctors and suppliers he is doing more damage limitation for Armsrong and Bruyneel.

It was a lifestyle, what like in a magazine Johan? or in a junkies den?

It was a level playng field! We hear this BS from Armstrong bots all the time!

Give me a break Museeuw is an idiot and trying to help Bruyneel, Riis and Armstrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Vanderaerden


Vanderaerdem retired without the palmares he deserved. Was he not clean Johan?

 

[blackcat]

NY Velocity tweets are hilarious...

nyvelocity‏@nyvelocity

[/IMG]nyvelocity‏@nyvelocity[/URL]
The UCI leaders are the herpes of sport's organizers, they just keep coming back.

left out the corollary

after visits to Yellow Rose.

 

[LauraLyn]

Museeuw is an idiot until he breaks omerta. Until he goes to WADA and gives a full confession to his doping, doctors and suppliers he is doing more damage limitation for Armsrong and Bruyneel.

It was a lifestyle, what like in a magazine Johan? or in a junkies den?

It was a level playing field! We hear this BS from Armstrong bots all the time!

Give me a break Museeuw is an idiot and trying to help Bruyneel, Riis and Armstrong.

I don't see how this interview helps Bruyneel, Riis, or Armstrong.

It was (and is) indeed a lifestyle for many athletes. They had to build so much of their lives around the demands of taking drugs.

I just don't see in Museeuw's dis-ingenuity that others here see. He is breaking the omerta, and moreso he is asking others to do so. Sure he is not going to WADA and confessing everything, but I don't see where there is a process for that yet. USADA has called for a Truth and Transparency process for cycling, and Meseeuw is one of the few cyclists that has come out supporting the breaking of the omerta.

No one can break the omerta alone. It takes a lot of people to speak up and create a space where others can come clean. Tyler, Floyd, and others have been doing that. But as long as people slam everyone who comes forward to break the omerta with the same language and tactics as Lance, riders won't feel safe to come forward.

If we want an omerta and clean cycling then we have to support the moves that go in that direction.

 

[D-Queued]

... Sig line:

Sometimes we can learn more from our victories than from our defeats. Tom Boonen, September 2012.

This is an interesting sig line. Especially given the 'connection' from Museeuw.

Love to understand more about why you chose this sig.

Tom has done some great sprinting.

But, since we are in the 'Clinic' the first thing that comes to mind is that if you take drugs of any kind you cannot separate the benefit of the drugs from the results achieved. The first victim of PEDS is yourself.

In other words, how can you learn from any victories where PEDs are involved in any way whatsoever?

Isn't that irrational?

Dave.

 

[Darryl Webster]

But, since we are in the 'Clinic' the first thing that comes to mind is that if you take drugs of any kind you cannot separate the benefit of the drugs from the results achieved. The first victim of PEDS is yourself.
Dave.

I've known of several doping pros, lose all pleasure in cycling and suffer considerable depression and relation issues post there careers. Frequently it also seems to be from those riders who are only pro 2,3, 4 years.
In order to feel "good" ..or good enough about it a rider really has to find a justification...the most effective being " every one else is",
If you really believe that, and I think many pro,s do ( or certainly did) then doping stops being a moral issue and becomes a practical solution.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Pretty weak admission all around.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Museeuw went before a court a few years ago. If he's willing to name names to the relevant authorities, what's stopping him?
Blanket accusations like this are of very little use.

Just a question, my very limited knowledge of dutch allow me to see that the word "Witch hunt" ("heksenjacht") is used in regards to the Armstrong case. I'm guessing what we read online is a digest version. Is this expression used by the reporter or is it from Museeuw?

 

[LauraLyn]

Pretty weak admission all around.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Museeuw went before a court a few years ago. If he's willing to name names to the relevant authorities, what's stopping him?
Blanket accusations like this are of very little use.

Just a question, my very limited knowledge of dutch allow me to see that the word "Witch hunt" ("heksenjacht") is used in regards to the Armstrong case. I'm guessing what we read online is a digest version. Is this expression used by the reporter or is it from Museeuw?

Johan received a suspended prison sentence in a Belgium criminal court for doping.

In some papers they are saying he is calling for "confession:" http://www.focus.de/sport/radsport/radsport-museeuw-ueber-doping-jeder-hat-es-getan_aid_814408.html but this is not precisely what he said in the Gazet van Antwerpen interview. He really does not need to confess. It is out there. What he is calling is for an end to the silence by today's riders and for people to come clean about their usage. Not for them to necessarily talk about others.

I think it is a good move by him. He is helping to push the door the USADA is opening just a bit further, as are others.

In the article, Johan does not mention a "witch hunt" (heksenjacht). The reporter says that (I paraphrase) "Johan is very aware of the witch hunt against Lance Armstrong." But this sentence is in no way attributable to Johan, and my impression is that you could also not say it is the position of the reporter - it is more a less a short cut for him to get to the discussion of what Johan said about himself.

I saw it all over the German press today as well: http://www.focus.de/sport/radsport/radsport-museeuw-ueber-doping-jeder-hat-es-getan_aid_814408.html

 

[Echoes]

Since the thread has been bumped ...

My thought exactly!..in 87 he was good, the local amateur big hitter in Flanders
.

I know amateur riders from the same generation as yours who told me that Van Hooydonck was the big Belgian hitter of the time and was indeed racing clean.

In 1987 he had just turned pro and won his first Flèche brabançonne (which went on to be his race), finished 5th in Paris-Roubaix and in Zurich. The next year he wins the Eddy Merckx GP and the Tour of Andalucia. His first Tour of Flanders in 1989 + 3rd in Paris-Roubaix and 2nd in the Merckx GP (behind Yates who used the tri-bars!). À travers la Belgique (now Dwars door Vlaanderen) in 1990 + 3rd in Paris-Roubaix. His second Tour of Flanders in 1991 + 9th in Liège. 3rd in Flanders 1992

All this before Museeuw won his first classic, while Van Hooydonck was one year younger !

I copy/paste my post from the other thread:

That triggered a reaction by Edwig Van Hooydonck who repeated once again that his results came down when EPO, testosteron, HGH became widespread in the peloton and that many Belgians came to Italy because they had no future in Belgium. And asked about Museeuw, he answered he was one of them. And when asked on which basis he thinks Museeuw doped all his career long he replied that he found him abnormally strong notably when he beat him at the (his!) Flèche brabançonne 1996. Edwig thought he was fresher because Museeuw raced Harelbeke the day before and not him. Yet he dropped him easily on Alsemberg.

During the series De Flandriens Edwig was angry to learn that Museeuw thought he could counter his attack on the Bosberg. For Museeuw at that time was not the rider he would later become (he still rode for Lotto).

Vanderaerdem retired without the palmares he deserved. Was he not clean Johan?

Vanderaerden was from another generation. A bit like LeMond ! And finished his career in the dodgy Brescialat team! Even though he raced a few years for Buckler, like Van Hooydonck.

Van Hooydonck was really screwed over, very hard ! Just like Frans Maassen, Gilles Delion, Eddy Bouwmans, and maybe also Flavio Giupponi and Sammie Moreels (??).


By the way, what has USADA got to do with all this?

This is about the classics !

 

[LauraLyn]

This is an interesting sig line. Especially given the 'connection' from Museeuw.

Love to understand more about why you chose this sig.

Tom has done some great sprinting.

But, since we are in the 'Clinic' the first thing that comes to mind is that if you take drugs of any kind you cannot separate the benefit of the drugs from the results achieved. The first victim of PEDS is yourself.

In other words, how can you learn from any victories where PEDs are involved in any way whatsoever?

Isn't that irrational?

Dave.

Thanks Dave. Actually, I couldn't express it as well as Tom. I choose it because I liked it when he said it. And I wasn't thinking about cycling or doping at the time.

Am I to understand from what you say that because a rider got caught doping that their whole career is suspect? Does that mean that anything a person says about biking or racing or winning has no value? Is this your suggestion?

 

[D-Queued]

Thanks Dave. Actually, I couldn't express it as well as Tom. I choose it because I liked it when he said it. And I wasn't thinking about cycling or doping at the time.

Am I to understand from what you say that because a rider got caught doping that their whole career is suspect? Does that mean that anything a person says about biking or racing or winning has no value? Is this your suggestion?

Thanks.

No, I wasn't going that deep.

But, as soon as they dope they have inescapably put their entire career up for re-assessment.

And, yes, a doped rider who wins knows nothing about what winning takes beyond the dope.

----

Ok, those are two, bold and pithy statements.

They are well considered, however, and I would be happy to elaborate further.

I have done work with predictive cardiac monitoring that targeted professional sport teams (NHL, NFL, etc.) as an early market.

What the sports docs were most interested in was that they could take a marginal player and turn them into a Wayne Gretzky. Better cardiac performance would yield better awareness, reaction speed, etc. at critical times.

They would score more goals.

Oddly , the benefits that they were describing could potentially be derived from PEDs as well. (and, what concerned me ethically is using the new technology to fine tune PED selection)

Applying this to PEDs, if PEDs gave these awareness benefits, but you took away the PEDs and the advantage, would you know how to score goals when you were back to marginal awareness?

Similarly, would you have the same ability to find your way through the pack at 60+ kph?

Probably not.

In fact, you probably couldn't even go 60 kph anyways. And, the marginal hockey player would find themselves without the puck before they could even try and shoot.

Dave.

 

[the vagabond]

Surprised at comments from people who look at Museeuw as a "light" doper. Even before the full extent of doping was known by observers, I always suspected him (along with Tchmil and a few others) as being a very big doper, and I still do.

I'm not impressed by Museeuw's statement. He has always avoided talking in specifics about his own doping. Why does he feel he has the right to implicate everybody on equal terms? If one guy is doping 10 X as much as another, and making 10 X the salary, is the little guy supposed to take the same fall? I don't think so. Museeuw is like the kind of guy who might be in charge of (illegally) organizing the beer at a scout camp, who gets drunk, and when he gets caught wants to call out everybody else who only had one or two.

I think everybody has the right to decide for himself what he should and shouldn't say - Museeuw is not their daddy, and I seriously doubt he commands enough respect to impress people with his grandstanding.