Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Unzue is a smart man, he will separate them. I can see Valverde doing il Giro

Unzue and smart doesn't really fit with each other. The man deserves the credits for renewing the contracts of the important riders ( almost each season), but his race tactics/strategies are horrible. As much as i would love to see your suggestion, it has a very small chance since Unzue is keen on selecting two (equal) leaders at the start of the TOUR. ( Quintana/Valverde, Valverde/Pereiro/Karpets, Valverde/Mancebo, Mancebo/Menchov)

Besides this Unzue has stated at the beginning of this year's GIRO that the GIRO will be a opportunity for the youngsters and inexperienced riders. If that trent continues this year (very likely) it's gonna be the likes of Amador,Ion Izagirre, Fernandez, Jesus Herrada and maybe Soler. Valverde will probably join Quintana in the TOUR/VUELTA.

But in 2006, when Valverde chrashed out, Pereiro ended up winning. In 2005, Valverde was clearly the best of those to, but didnt finish that year as well which led to Mancebo getting 4th or 5th. Respectable.

The ONLY time I think Valverde hindered Quintana a bit was at La Touissuire, but Im really not sure that he (Valv) held him back. I am 99% sure that if Quintana said: "hey, I have godlike legs, I want to go early and win the Tour" Valv and Unzue would have yelled go until he went.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't think that Valverde hindered Quintana's chances at the Tour. Similar things I heard between the Schleck brothers. I always thought that it was Quintana's fault not to attack earlier on La Toussuire. There was not warranty that it would have succeeded but I always thought that he waited too long. I did not see an opportunity anywhere else.

Having said that I am not sure how the mind of a rider like Quintana works. Our brains are too complex to comprehend and maybe deep inside having Valverde to his side makes him less free. Not sure, maybe I am talking out my *** but we might find out one day when he rides alone.

 

[Metabolol]

It's not just a question of what Quintana and Valverde did, it's a question of what the rest of the team does when they are both in the same race. There has been situations when Movistar wasted helpers/energy on Valverde when every single % of support should have gone to Quintana. And that has even happened when Quintana was up the road ahead of Valverde! That's not how you ride as a team if the goal is to win the Tour.

I don't really blame Valverde, he has a champions mindset, but it will always prevent him from riding 100% for Quintana. You can't ride 100% for Quintana and end up very high in the GC at the Tour at the same time. Valverde will never be able to (and shouldn't!) change his mindset so they simply need to target different races and most of the time stay out of each others way.

 

[damian13ster]

You must have been watching different race.
Domestiques didn't waste strength working specifically for Valverde. Quintana was the leader from very beginning and had every support he needed.
Valverde wasted tons of strength trying to help out Quintana. Did pretty much everything possible to setup an attack short of physically pushing him up the mountain.
You can not blame him for the fact that Quintana chose to hide behind Froome, scared to attack for 19.5 stages.

 

[jsem94]

You must have been watching different race.
Domestiques didn't waste strength working specifically for Valverde. Quintana was the leader from very beginning and had every support he needed.
Valverde wasted tons of strength trying to help out Quintana. Did pretty much everything possible to setup an attack short of physically pushing him up the mountain.
You can not blame him for the fact that Quintana chose to hide behind Froome, scared to attack for 19.5 stages.

It is like we were watching a completely different race.....

 

[Dog]

Valverde worked for Quintana in the Tour. Pulled multiple times, offered platforms for attack. He was arguably the best domestique in the entire race.
Movistar with Valverde provides much stronger support than Movistar without Valverde

Thomas and Sagan were far away the best domestiques for their leaders. Even Porte was better than Valverde.

Valverde clearly held a lot back to preserve his 3rd place.

 

[Gigs_98]

Do you remember how Alberto kicked his ass in the dauphine 2014?

Before he crashed when he gained time in the TT and won the stage after Contador wheelsucked him for 3km or after he crashed, when he was clearly not in shape to contest?

We will never know what would have happened in the 2014 Tour, so using that as a valid argument to prove that AC is currently a better GC rider than Froome is completely nonsensical.

Well I think it is kind of obvious that I was a little bit bugged when I wrote that comment, so please don't take it too serious . And especially you should be careful or I will send you another possible avatar

 

[bala v]

You must have been watching different race.
Domestiques didn't waste strength working specifically for Valverde. Quintana was the leader from very beginning and had every support he needed.
Valverde wasted tons of strength trying to help out Quintana. Did pretty much everything possible to setup an attack short of physically pushing him up the mountain.
You can not blame him for the fact that Quintana chose to hide behind Froome, scared to attack for 19.5 stages.

It is like we were watching a completely different race.....

Well, he should of attacked much more than he did, I agree on that

 

[AlexNYC]

NaironMan will be one of the main favorites to win the Tour next year, it seems! I think he's going to surprise a few people in the ITT stages!

 

[Miburo]

Will he actually try to win the tour? That's the big question!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

NaironMan will be one of the main favorites to win the Tour next year, it seems! I think he's going to surprise a few people in the ITT stages!

IMO it wouldnt even be a big surprise anymore. He showed in this years vuelta how good he can time trial

 

[Ramon Koran]

Quintana is preety bad on tt, never proven any level look at tdf 2013? even on hilly Giro 2014 HE lost minutes to URAN. So against Froome he will lose many time probably cost him the tour.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Quintana is preety bad on tt, never proven any level look at tdf 2013? even on hilly Giro 2014 HE lost minutes to URAN. So against Froome he will lose many time probably cost him the tour.

Its possible, but you probably didnt consider that Uran is the best tt among gc contenders, imo little bit better than Froome who was terrible in it this year (understandable tho).Also Quintana will probably train hard on itt.More important thing is if he will improve even more in climbing or not,cuz Alberto will climb certainly better than Froome in this Tour 2015 (except PSM wtf )

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Quintana is preety bad on tt, never proven any level look at tdf 2013? even on hilly Giro 2014 HE lost minutes to URAN. So against Froome he will lose many time probably cost him the tour.

Its possible, but you probably didnt consider that Uran is the best tt among gc contenders, imo little bit better than Froome who was terrible in it this year (understandable tho).Also Quintana will probably train hard on itt.More important thing is if he will improve even more in climbing or not,cuz Alberto will climb certainly better than Froome in this Tour 2015 (except PSM wtf )

Agree on Uran but i still see Quintana losing 2-2 min 30 in TT and given what happend this year that could cost him the Tour. Contador is an unknown could be great as likely as not great, think Froome is the bench mark quintana should be aiming for not Contador.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re:

Quintana is preety bad on tt, never proven any level look at tdf 2013? even on hilly Giro 2014 HE lost minutes to URAN. So against Froome he will lose many time probably cost him the tour.

The main problem with Quintana's TTing is that he has been very irregular up until now. Some times he's been bad, other times he's been actually good. I attribute this to his youth; I think he will turn out to be better than OK with time - not a world beater by any means, but better than most climbers. The 2014 Giro is not a good example, however. If you remember, he was very sick during the first half; he actually contemplated retiring at some point.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

NaironMan will be one of the main favorites to win the Tour next year, it seems! I think he's going to surprise a few people in the ITT stages!

IMO it wouldnt even be a big surprise anymore. He showed in this years vuelta how good he can time trial

Well, in this year's Vuelta the TT was right in the middle of his 2-3 day peak.
The jury is still out on his TT skills. Stage 13 is a bit late for my liking, but it still might be too early for Quintana to be in shape

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

NaironMan will be one of the main favorites to win the Tour next year, it seems! I think he's going to surprise a few people in the ITT stages!

IMO it wouldnt even be a big surprise anymore. He showed in this years vuelta how good he can time trial

Well, in this year's Vuelta the TT was right in the middle of his 2-3 day peak.
The jury is still out on his TT skills. Stage 13 is a bit late for my liking, but it still might be too early for Quintana to be in shape

Could be true, but hard to speculate about the peak of a gt next year.

 

[May0maniac]

He has great recovery in a GT and is always a beast in the 3rd week, but in my humble opinion he should ride a longer preparation race before the Tour and not just Route du Sud, I get the fact that the team wants to avoid a big showdown with Froome right before the Tour and doesn't want him to race Dauphine because of that, but for someone with his recovery TdS could be a good preraration race.

 

[sir fly]

Re:

He's already talking about dangers of overtraining, so I doubt he's thinking about the Suisse.
Correct approach considering the route, I'd say.

 

[hrotha]

The ITTs are largely irrelevant. That's not where Quintana lost this year's Tour, and it's not where he'll lose the next one either.

 

[Metabolol]

Re:

He has great recovery in a GT and is always a beast in the 3rd week, but in my humble opinion he should ride a longer preparation race before the Tour and not just Route du Sud, I get the fact that the team wants to avoid a big showdown with Froome right before the Tour and doesn't want him to race Dauphine because of that, but for someone with his recovery TdS could be a good preraration race.

I agree with this and as I said before I think he paid for it on the first mountain stage of the Tour. His base preparation was probably just fine but the Route du Sud didn't provide enough race sharpness. He doesn't need to go for the GC in the TdS or Dauphine just pick a couple of stages where he goes a bit harder.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

The ITTs are largely irrelevant. That's not where Quintana lost this year's Tour, and it's not where he'll lose the next one either.

Where then, if I may ask?

 

[hrotha]

In the mountains.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

In the mountains.

Im pretty confident that the only place he will lose time will be in Andorra. In 2013 when he attacked mid climb on Ventoux, he was pretty close to Froome when he came storming and has obviously been outclimbing Froome in the Alps in 2013 and 2015 which he will do again in an even more backloaded Tour.

I'll be super surprised if Nairo has lost time overall in the mountains. I dont see that happening.

 

[hrotha]

It's not about where he lost time per se, but about where he failed to play to his strengths to make up for it. After all, he can't possibly expect to lose any less time than what he lost on stages that didn't suit him at all, like the crosswinds or the ITT. Conditions were already as favourable as they could be for him.