Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Re:

It's a very situational move requiring the right stage and that the rider contemplating it is the strongest, or very close to the strongest and that the domestiques of the attacked riders aren't too strong. And because of the heightened blow up risk, that the attacker is behind.

So yeah, almost never a good idea.

When you have a 0% chance of winning if you wait for the last climb, and non-0% chance of winning if you don't, it's always a good idea. Besides, what would Quintana have risked? His 2nd place? His own teammate was in 3rd, Nibali was eons behind, and its not like a 2nd place would add much to his palmares.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

the forumboard gets more and more obsessed with long range attacks

+1.

Once you are a real GC contender they become worthless. You can get away with it if they don't know the rider. But that's it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0KdeZHtq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWcyrvtOBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqCzDxAqqAQ

At least I included the Andy Schleck attack in my other post. LOL. This is the part where I have to concede that I was only thinking about the Tour only. But you are right on those 2 other attacks.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

the forumboard gets more and more obsessed with long range attacks

+1.

Once you are a real GC contender they become worthless. You can get away with it if they don't know the rider. But that's it. And TBH that last one that actually stuck and almost did some damage was done by Andy Schleck in 2012. And even that he had accumulated some lost time also.

that is kind of a childish infantilism. riders allegedly outght to all possible to deliver a show... I suspect some people simply don't quite understand how hard to counter power of big bunch and do well in a long range attack especially when being a significant gc threat.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

the forumboard gets more and more obsessed with long range attacks

+1.

Once you are a real GC contender they become worthless. You can get away with it if they don't know the rider. But that's it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0KdeZHtq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWcyrvtOBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqCzDxAqqAQ

On one hand you are right on the other hand I find it very ironic that one of those stages was about an attack by quintana

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

All tactics become irrelevant if you lose 2 mins in the first week especially when tours are won with <1min. Good positioning & teamwork is critical for not getting stuck behind or crashing. Not only are you physically affected due to the work done but mentally demoralized as well.

Only pussies let morale affect their performance.

What makes one a "pussie" if morale affects performance? The mental side of the game is important and just like the real world we can't always be on top of that side of things.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Contador attacked like 40k out on the Galibier, dropped everyone, got a flat on the descent.

The point is not that riders have to attack from 50+ km.

The point is they should try to, when that is the tactic with the best chance of winning.

Quintana attacked from further away on his first Tour. Once he became a threat everything changed. That was the point people were trying to make here.

And the strangest thing is Quintana failed to win that stage and actually lost time - Sorry to destroy the narrative.

 

[AlexNYC]

I can see how some would think Quintana's racing style is boring, although I don't agree with that assessment; but implying that it is somehow ineffective or lacking smarts is simply not true. Just take a look at his palmares while bearing in mind that he turned 26 this year. Froome was simply stronger overall in the 2015 Tour. Also, Movistar did not help by bowing to Valverde's podium ambitions.

 

[PremierAndrew]

I could understand someone like Bardet or Van Garderen holding onto a podium spot instead of risking it for the win. But someone like Quintana should always be going for the win. Valverde's podium was a big factor of course, but Quintana had teammates up the road, and if he attacked right from the bottom of the CdF, he would have found out if he could have gapped Froome. In the end, Froome was able to catch him easily on the descent, but the fact remains that he was gapped slightly, and the Tour could have played out differently last year if Quintana was a bit more ballsy.

Hopefully he learns.

 

[gospina]

Re:

I could understand someone like Bardet or Van Garderen holding onto a podium spot instead of risking it for the win. But someone like Quintana should always be going for the win. Valverde's podium was a big factor of course, but Quintana had teammates up the road, and if he attacked right from the bottom of the CdF, he would have found out if he could have gapped Froome. In the end, Froome was able to catch him easily on the descent, but the fact remains that he was gapped slightly, and the Tour could have played out differently last year if Quintana was a bit more ballsy.

Hopefully he learns.

My opinion is as follows: He was a younger guy (parallel to Andy Shleck winning the white jersey a few times in a row) and that WAS important at that time. He has moved a to a new level this year. He only has a few more races that he may want to win (Tour of Swiss, Dauphine, Worlds, Lombardia, Vuelta) but his palmares is very strong. Just like Contador, just like A. Shleck, just like even Nibali and Froome, palmares doesn't hold the same anymore. a 2nd place is not enough, he has said that all year (whole #dreamofyellow campaign since Jan 1st). With this new mindset, he will have to take more risks. Previous years he was ok with 2nd. Not anymore.

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

I could understand someone like Bardet or Van Garderen holding onto a podium spot instead of risking it for the win. But someone like Quintana should always be going for the win. Valverde's podium was a big factor of course, but Quintana had teammates up the road, and if he attacked right from the bottom of the CdF, he would have found out if he could have gapped Froome. In the end, Froome was able to catch him easily on the descent, but the fact remains that he was gapped slightly, and the Tour could have played out differently last year if Quintana was a bit more ballsy.

Hopefully he learns.

My opinion is as follows: He was a younger guy (parallel to Andy Shleck winning the white jersey a few times in a row) and that WAS important at that time. He has moved a to a new level this year. He only has a few more races that he may want to win (Tour of Swiss, Dauphine, Worlds, Lombardia, Vuelta) but his palmares is very strong. Just like Contador, just like A. Shleck, just like even Nibali and Froome, palmares doesn't hold the same anymore. a 2nd place is not enough, he has said that all year (whole #dreamofyellow campaign since Jan 1st). With this new mindset, he will have to take more risks. Previous years he was ok with 2nd. Not anymore.

I personally think he should NOT do Tour of Switzerland. Bad ju-ju for Colombians. Henao had his major accident there. Soler lost his career there. Both were in a good position to win it when that happened. I don't want the "misery comes in 3s" thing here. Go for Dauphine!

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

I could understand someone like Bardet or Van Garderen holding onto a podium spot instead of risking it for the win. But someone like Quintana should always be going for the win. Valverde's podium was a big factor of course, but Quintana had teammates up the road, and if he attacked right from the bottom of the CdF, he would have found out if he could have gapped Froome. In the end, Froome was able to catch him easily on the descent, but the fact remains that he was gapped slightly, and the Tour could have played out differently last year if Quintana was a bit more ballsy.

Hopefully he learns.

My opinion is as follows: He was a younger guy (parallel to Andy Shleck winning the white jersey a few times in a row) and that WAS important at that time. He has moved a to a new level this year. He only has a few more races that he may want to win (Tour of Swiss, Dauphine, Worlds, Lombardia, Vuelta) but his palmares is very strong. Just like Contador, just like A. Shleck, just like even Nibali and Froome, palmares doesn't hold the same anymore. a 2nd place is not enough, he has said that all year (whole #dreamofyellow campaign since Jan 1st). With this new mindset, he will have to take more risks. Previous years he was ok with 2nd. Not anymore.

I personally think he should NOT do Tour of Switzerland. Bad ju-ju for Colombians. Henao had his major accident there. Soler lost his career there. Both were in a good position to win it when that happened. I don't want the "misery comes in 3s" thing here. Go for Dauphine!

And Superman Lopez had his breakout party there... This is nonsense.

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

RDS seems the best way to go on track, less days of competition = less probabilities to fall and skip the Tour. Imho TDS is too demanding and risky.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Beautiful victory, well deserved.

Stop trolling.
What a loser. He should go ask the jury to reverse the decision if he has any class or decency. Idiotic decision and a hollow victory. Hopefully Zaka crushes him tomorrow.

As blackmamba said, he's a whiner and a wheelsucker and might I also add incredibly uncharismatic. I can't believe I used to be a fan of this loser

Funny what can fuel people's (or LaFlorecita's, to be exact) anti-Quintana agenda.

Im really torn about whats the smartest, but as I've said before, Quintana and the staff knows the best. It would be one great show to see him in Suisse, but considering he hasn't done that before, how smart it is? It is incredible hard this year, but on the other hand, the competition isn't stiff compared to Dauphine at least. I would love to see him in Suisse, but Im a little sceptic....

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I think he won't do any pre race considering he wants to do the "triple" tour-os-vuelta

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I think he won't do any pre race considering he wants to do the "triple" tour-os-vuelta

I agree with that decision, but he has just hinted a couple of times that he might do Suisse?

Considering how he has come out in Catalunya 16 and T-A 15, it probably is the way to go.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

the forumboard gets more and more obsessed with long range attacks

+1.

Once you are a real GC contender they become worthless. You can get away with it if they don't know the rider. But that's it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0KdeZHtq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QWcyrvtOBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqCzDxAqqAQ

At least I included the Andy Schleck attack in my other post. LOL. This is the part where I have to concede that I was only thinking about the Tour only. But you are right on those 2 other attacks.

And what about nibali in dauphine '15?

Contador in TA '14 and PN '16?

Not GT's but still

 

[Red Rick]

Suisse seems a pretty bad idea if you want to peak for Tour+OG+Vuelta. On the other hand, its pretty attractive because its a pretty big race and he should win it 10 times out of 9 with his eyes closed.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Suisse seems a pretty bad idea if you want to peak for Tour+OG+Vuelta. On the other hand, its pretty attractive because its a pretty big race and he should win it 10 times out of 9 with his eyes closed.

And we won't have to see him wheelsuck contador and froome in the dauphine

 

[SeriousSam]

Wheelsucking at the Dauphine can be exciting though. The second stage in 2014 for instance was a lot of fun even if Contador relentlessly wheelsucked Froome throughout.

 

[Miburo]

Wheelsucking at the Dauphine can be exciting though. The second stage in 2014 for instance was a lot of fun even if Contador relentlessly wheelsucked Froome throughout.

That wasn't wheelsucking but hanging on for dear life. Been since peyresourde since we've seen such a spectacle.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Wheelsucking at the Dauphine can be exciting though. The second stage in 2014 for instance was a lot of fun even if Contador relentlessly wheelsucked Froome throughout.

That wasn't wheelsucking but hanging on for dear life. Been since peyresourde since we've seen such a spectacle.

Its a matter of interpretation I guess. If Contador didn't 'wheel suck' during the second stage of Dauphine, I don't know what.

Anyways, I very much dislike the term wheel suck. Quintana is a rider you barely can see if hurts or not. I think many people think that he goes as easy as he can sometimes and expects fireworks, but he also has limits, despite not showing it.

We have been over and over.. and over the subject before so many times and I stand by that the only time he rode cowardly and wheel sucked for no reason was on that La Toussuire stage last year. It is getting as old as the Froome/Contador discussion and nobody probably will ever agree - you have your favourites, I have mine, ryo has his etc. so we tackle it from a wide variety of perspectives. He isn't as aggressive as I would like at times, thats for sure, but I don't want him to attack like Contador sometimes does just for the spectacle and the 'well, I at least tried'.

 

[Miburo]

Just for the spectacle? The tour was on the line and he didn't do anything to win it!

It can't get any worse than that, especially with his comments after the race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Just for the spectacle? The tour was on the line and he didn't do anything to win it!

It can't get any worse than that, especially with his comments after the race.

It was somewhat of a tragedy he didn't attack before 5 kilometres out - shoulda went in the bottom or probably even better, on Croix-de-Fer. He didnt. There are various reasons for that - Valverde, Unzue, supposedly sick (probably false, I remember the rumours), didn't feel he had the legs or just rode cowardly. I don't know, maybe a combination.

Yes, sometimes Contador attacks just for the spectacle, take the stage to Pra Loup as probably the best example example or the stage to Beille as the most recent.

Anyways, I have said what needs to be said about it, I won't dig down into another discussion of wheel sucking.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Just for the spectacle? The tour was on the line and he didn't do anything to win it!

It can't get any worse than that, especially with his comments after the race.

It is good for you that Contador is not retiring for at least 2 more years. You have something to sheer for. Especially when he shows his 2009 form again in this Tour. Let's hope for the best.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Just for the spectacle? The tour was on the line and he didn't do anything to win it!

It can't get any worse than that, especially with his comments after the race.

It is good for you that Contador is not retiring for at least 2 more years. You have something to sheer for. Especially when he shows his 2009 form again in this Tour. Let's hope for the best.

When are people getting reported for this? Clear ad hominem

But whatever, just a sign you gave up and pretty much said i'm right. Pathetic really, just say i'm right without the insults