Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[ferryman]

Was watching a good few You Tube clips last night and, tin hat on here, Nairo's climbing style reminds me a lot of my, and dearly missed, man Andy. Never looking like putting too much effort into it and when he goes he doesn't have the devastating kick of Contador (of old) or Froome but still bloody effective. Maybe just me though!!

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I think you missed the point... the question was "Why is Quintana not praised as much for attempting the double as Contador was" portugal11's answer is "because Contador won the Tour multiple times and Quintana not once". I don't really see the connection to your post which is about Quintana and Contador's chance to make the podium at the TDF.

Maybe because Tinkoff is not Quintana's DS ? I remember he wanted Froome to try the double and race Contador and he Tinkoff basically made out that Froome was gutless for not trying. Typical Tinkoff. I don't think it's a smart move by Quintana nor do I think he will succeed but then again he won the Vuelta last year and he probably is not interested in the Giro/Vuelta double. If anything he will find out how hard it is to try the Giro/Tour double and may never attempt it again but he can say he tried and cross it off his list of To Do items.

You are pretty attentive for someone who said they don't follow this thread in their previous post !

 

[gospina]

Contador was the first one in this era to say he wanted the double. Actually, to be honest, he said he wanted the triple GT (not to be confused with the double GT + worlds). Contador has his personal kit and his bike painted with all 3 colors of GT, further emphasizing how he sees all 3 as the same importance. Their argument that in order for anyone to attempt the triple, the big hitters all had to do them. No way anyone could compete with a GT under their belt vs someone just prepping for one GT. If Nairo podiums in both, it will be impressive. Winning both is as realistic as winning all 3.

 

[BalearicBeats]

It seems like Quintana has adopted a more attacking style this year, even attacking on some flat/hilly stages. Would he want to replicate the methods (e.g. attack in echelons, on the flat, ...) Froome used to win some time this Tour? If so, that and the fact he's trying to win two GTs could mean the top riders start specializing less again.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

1/3 of the truth. He also crashed a fair amount in that Tour, but despite those two things, the Giro would have taken its toll regardless. I very much doubt he would've won even if he had ridden conservatively.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-i-live-for-the-challenge/
Very promising article. I can't help to but think about how much praise Alberto got for doing the double while Quintana doesn't. Here he speaks about respect and history of the Giro and why it is so important for him to race it and why challenges like that motivates him.

Perhaps it's cause AC had already won the Tour.

I personally am just glad to see a stellar field riding the Giro. Quintana will only make it better. Gonna be good.

What does it matter whether one already has won the Tour? I'd even say its an argument in Quintana's favour if anything that he hasn't won it, yet still rides the Giro. Its just bias, thats all.

Are you saying that it's a forum bias, a media bias as a whole or both?

 

[Escarabajo]

Forum bias.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Forum bias.

Yes.

Also, got to love LF casually scrolling through the Quintana-thread looking to defend Contador.

 

[Pennino]

Re:

Contador was the first one in this era to say he wanted the double. Actually, to be honest, he said he wanted the triple GT (not to be confused with the double GT + worlds). Contador has his personal kit and his bike painted with all 3 colors of GT, further emphasizing how he sees all 3 as the same importance. Their argument that in order for anyone to attempt the triple, the big hitters all had to do them. No way anyone could compete with a GT under their belt vs someone just prepping for one GT. If Nairo podiums in both, it will be impressive. Winning both is as realistic as winning all 3.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that all three indeed have the same importance. The Tour may be the race which attracts the most attention but it totally is a *** race most of the time. Or let's say that out of 3,000+ kms only a handful of them offer a real race between the GC favourites. That's as disgusting as ridiculous for such a big world wide hype.

And accuse me of being on the AC bandwagon all you can but you simply cannot deny the fact that he's the only rider who's putting his rivals under pressure whenever and wherever he can. And the mountains in Italy and Spain are way more impressive than all those highways called "cols" in France.

The more we fix ourselves to that parody of a bike race, the more we're making fools of ourselves and of the beautiful cycling sport as a whole.

Maybe real climbers like Nairo and Alberto, but also Chaves, Aru and so on, should just boycot the Tour for a couple of years until they finally make more brutal mountain stages. Let's see how long the Brits keep enjoying themselves. Pantani said it already after winning it in 1998: "We climbers make the real spectacle, but instead they are always favouring the time triallers."

 

[Tonton]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

 

[sQiD]

Everybody knows that Cantador is always going to try something. Quintana benefited from in last year's Vuelta, and i think he will be more agressive in the future. If Porte, Chavez and Bardet join them in some early action, then, there's a slim chance Froomey could lose this time.

 

[Sciocco]

I'm excited to see Quintana ride the Giro. Double attempts are always cool.

I think there's a few reasons Quintana might get less hype compared to Contador:
-He's been a pussy at the Tour so far, not many expect him to go all in for victory.
-Contador has a larger fanbase so...
-With Contador's failed double being so recent many are probably more pessimistic.

For me, it still feels like the season hasn't started yet. Maybe with Algarve/Andalusia/KBK it will.

 

[Pennino]

Re:

I'm excited to see Quintana ride the Giro. Double attempts are always cool.

I think there's a few reasons Quintana might get less hype compared to Contador:
-He's been a pussy at the Tour so far, not many expect him to go all in for victory.
-Contador has a larger fanbase so...
-With Contador's failed double being so recent many are probably more pessimistic.

For me, it still feels like the season hasn't started yet. Maybe with Algarve/Andalusia/KBK it will.

Probably. But the biggest reason must be that Quintana nor Movistar yet have said: "the goal is the double, we're going for it." They're doing the Giro, but seem to doubt themselves wether they really believe in the double or seeing it still more as a preparation. When riding the Giro without any agressivity, like his 2016 TdF, he might win with some luck while still being at his peak in the TdF. But the odds are little. Unless he has proven a lot more when it comes to double GC'ing than Contador.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

I agree with this. To me, Quintana's double attempt screams "I can't beat Froome in the Tour, so I might as well "attempt" the double while knowing it won't happen. This way I have an excuse at the Tour and save face when I don't beat Froome and I might even win some fans because I attempt a historical double." It's harsh, I know, but I really don't like it. He hasn't won the Tour yet, so he should focus 100% on doing so.

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

So true. In french, it's "la loi des séries", some fuoriclasse who never won TdF, or less than the predictions. Saronni, Fignon, Berzin, Ullrich, Dekker, Gerdemann, Kreuziger, A Schleck, then N Quintana ?

 

[kingjr]

I never quite understood what people saw in Gerdemann. I saw him when he was with CSC and to me he seemed decent at best.

 

[DFA123]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

I agree with this. To me, Quintana's double attempt screams "I can't beat Froome in the Tour, so I might as well "attempt" the double while knowing it won't happen. This way I have an excuse at the Tour and save face when I don't beat Froome and I might even win some fans because I attempt a historical double." It's harsh, I know, but I really don't like it. He hasn't won the Tour yet, so he should focus 100% on doing so.

I have to say, as much as I like Quintana, I agree with this to extent. It does seem a bit cowardly in a way. On the other hand, that could be too harsh and he really might believe that, after his show at the Vuelta last year, he can perform better in the second GT of the year. Also, part of me is glad to see some of the very best riders prioritise the Giro, rather than the Tour overshadowing everything all the time.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hey for better or worse, I am very excited that he is doing the Giro. Additionally he seems to be a dreamer. Once he saw those profiles in the high mountains he couldn't help himself. From day one he was pushing to go to the Giro.

Maybe it is right what others have said about him that he feels that he can not beat Froome at the Tour. But hey who can blame him with that parcours at the Tour.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

I might be totally wrong but to me sounded like this is when Nairito became the #1 calling the shots at Movi instead of Valverde...

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I might be totally wrong but to me sounded like this is when Nairito became the #1 calling the shots at Movi instead of Valverde...

I think he's been #1 for a couple of years now in GTs. I'm kind of doubtful that Valverde went to the Giro last year if he could have had his pick of a schedule (i.e. co-leader at the Tour and vuelta).

If Quintana does do the Giro it could create an interesting situation at the Tour, where Valverde is actually stronger and more likely to make the podium. Will be interesting to see how Movistar would play it. Presumably both protected riders until Nairo shows that he should be backed 100%.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

I agree with this. To me, Quintana's double attempt screams "I can't beat Froome in the Tour, so I might as well "attempt" the double while knowing it won't happen. This way I have an excuse at the Tour and save face when I don't beat Froome and I might even win some fans because I attempt a historical double." It's harsh, I know, but I really don't like it. He hasn't won the Tour yet, so he should focus 100% on doing so.

I have to say, as much as I like Quintana, I agree with this to extent. It does seem a bit cowardly in a way. On the other hand, that could be too harsh and he really might believe that, after his show at the Vuelta last year, he can perform better in the second GT of the year. Also, part of me is glad to see some of the very best riders prioritise the Giro, rather than the Tour overshadowing everything all the time.

Its a fair point and it maybe true and maybe it isn't - my guess is its somewhere in between.

I might be totally wrong but to me sounded like this is when Nairito became the #1 calling the shots at Movi instead of Valverde...

Its in both interests. Quintana gets to ride the Giro and Valverde will be able to lead the Vuelta which he otherwise wouldn't be able to. So its win-win.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

I might be totally wrong but to me sounded like this is when Nairito became the #1 calling the shots at Movi instead of Valverde...

I think he's been #1 for a couple of years now in GTs. I'm kind of doubtful that Valverde went to the Giro last year if he could have had his pick of a schedule (i.e. co-leader at the Tour and vuelta).

If Quintana does do the Giro it could create an interesting situation at the Tour, where Valverde is actually stronger and more likely to make the podium. Will be interesting to see how Movistar would play it. Presumably both protected riders until Nairo shows that he should be backed 100%.

I think Valverde wanted to do Il Giro, he speaked earlier about doing it at least once in his career. I agree though, that Quintana is #1 pick in terms of GT's for quite some time, Unzue and Valverde himself are not blind, they see who's stronger. But for "calling the shots" part, I'm not so sure, even at last year's Vuelta it was noticeable that Valverde is boss on the road at Movistar

 

[Mongolian Torque]

Re: Re:

I might be totally wrong but to me sounded like this is when Nairito became the #1 calling the shots at Movi instead of Valverde...

I think he's been #1 for a couple of years now in GTs. I'm kind of doubtful that Valverde went to the Giro last year if he could have had his pick of a schedule (i.e. co-leader at the Tour and vuelta).

If Quintana does do the Giro it could create an interesting situation at the Tour, where Valverde is actually stronger and more likely to make the podium. Will be interesting to see how Movistar would play it. Presumably both protected riders until Nairo shows that he should be backed 100%.

I think Valverde wanted to do Il Giro, he speaked earlier about doing it at least once in his career. I agree though, that Quintana is #1 pick in terms of GT's for quite some time, Unzue and Valverde himself are not blind, they see who's stronger. But for "calling the shots" part, I'm not so sure, even at last year's Vuelta it was noticeable that Valverde is boss on the road at Movistar

Yes for sure Valves is the road boss. With his experience he is quite valuable to Movistar and Quintana.

Valves has been riding well lately and that gives Movistar some great options during competition.

I really hoped that Movistar could have focused on the Tour and colluded with 'frienemy' Contador this year.

With a ridiculous parcours, imagine the two separate packages going for it and dismantling that gaudy money Skybot train in the process.

Current thoughts aside, I really beginning to think there should be some sort of salary cap on team salaries.

 

[movingtarget]

Pantani made that comment at a time when goats lost big chunks in ITT, Fair enough.

Now strong hybrids like Froome, Contador, or even Nibali win GTs. No weakness. Different era.

To me, the Giro-Tour double is a big mistake: programming the peak, scouting the mountain stages, and winning the only GT he hasn't won should be the priority. It reminds me of Oleg wishing to wait until Froome is gone to give it a real shot.

It smells like Quitana hasn't broken the curse after the Vuelta. He still has an inferiority complex. I think he'll win the Giro, podium the Tour, and so what? The best Movistar team can compete with Sky, little ITT, why not be all in?

I truly believe that Quintana can slay the dragon. I'm not sure that he does think so. Call me an old nostalgic or worse if you want, but Ocana gave it a shot, and that's pretty much his legacy. Ocana was as good as Merckx in '71, and if it wasn't for the crash, I bet he would have won it.

Andy came up. I see some Andy in Nairo too. And I hope I'm wrong.

I agree with this. To me, Quintana's double attempt screams "I can't beat Froome in the Tour, so I might as well "attempt" the double while knowing it won't happen. This way I have an excuse at the Tour and save face when I don't beat Froome and I might even win some fans because I attempt a historical double." It's harsh, I know, but I really don't like it. He hasn't won the Tour yet, so he should focus 100% on doing so.

I can understand the thinking. Quintana doesn't want to be another Andy or Ullrich with so many second places in the Tour. Of course Ullrich got his win as did Andy. The odd thing is that he always sounds so positive when comparing himself to Froome but it also sounds like he already tired of finishing second or even third in the Tour. If Froome wins in 2017 he will have good reason to be hungry in 2018 with a record equaling fifth Tour which means there will be no Giro in 2018 either for Froome. So unless someone shows signs of closing the gap this year, Froome probably has a good chance of winning five and Quintana's next good chance for a Tour win looks no closer in the short term. It will be interesting to see if Froome's performance starts to drop off in the next two seasons. That might be enough to give Quintana a better chance at dethroning Froome. Usually in GT riders there is some deterioration in performance after the age of 32 or so and sometimes even a bit earlier.

 

[Valv.Piti]

He will race Industria prior to T-A. He will face Nibali in that race.

What do we expect from Quintana at T-A? The best one week stage racers along with Quintana (Contador and Porte) will be in France, Froome is somewhere on the other side of the globe, I guess Pinot and Nibali will be his fiercest rivals, but Dumoulin, Landa, Aru, Mollema and maybe even Rui Costa could prove dangerous. All of these riders will by the way race in May.

 

[Netserk]

His form in Tirreno will probably be somewhere between what he showed up with in '14 and '15. I don't think the Fermo stage suits him, but I also doubt that Pinot and Nibali (the only ones I see challenging him) will any take time there.