Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

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Jan 24, 2012
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damian13ster said:
Doesnt matter how the Tour route looks. There are better climbers than him (even if not by a lot) and better time-trialists (by a lot). If I remember correctly he does also get caught in the echelons from time to time. Paris-Nice route doesn't susually suit him, neither do classics since he is not explosive at all.

So what's left is Catalunya and Tour de Suisse. Could be possible to grab a win there but I wouldn't bet my money on him.
It definitely depends on the route. If we get a ton of ITTs I think he's ****ed, but I think it is possible for him to climb with the best when he is at his best. He is also still only 24 years old.

If he goes for it he can win Catalunya or Suisse. A lot will depend on if he rides those for training or to win.

I wouldn't bet money on him either, but I don't bet at all so... :D
 
damian13ster said:
Doesnt matter how the Tour route looks. There are better climbers than him (even if not by a lot) and better time-trialists (by a lot). If I remember correctly he does also get caught in the echelons from time to time. Paris-Nice route doesn't susually suit him, neither do classics since he is not explosive at all.

So what's left is Catalunya and Tour de Suisse. Could be possible to grab a win there but I wouldn't bet my money on him.
True, but he has amazing recovery which can still help. A race like GDL proves that. Also he is better at the Classics than riders like Froome, TJVG, JVDB and maybe Contador, so he is not that bad. Also at Paris Nice in 2013 the course suited him, a MTT, a hard hilly day (that he did not follow Porte/ Talansky on) and an MTF.

Sciocco said:
The riders seem to prepare in different ways.

Nibali goes for the be ****ing terrible until the tour and then super peak.
That was this year, last year he won T-A and Trentino before the Giro.
In 2012 he came 2nd at Oman, 1st at T-A, 3rd M-SR, 2nd LBL so i disagree.
 
I don't think Quintana would lose any time to Froome or Nibali in the mountains, he would have just as much chance of gaining time as them. However a long flattish TT would really hinder him. He would need a lot of tough, mountainous stages to balance that and it is something that the Tour is really known for.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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greenedge said:
That was this year, last year he won T-A and Trentino before the Giro.
In 2012 he came 2nd at Oman, 1st at T-A, 3rd M-SR, 2nd LBL so i disagree.
I was specifically talking about this year.
 
Sciocco said:
It definitely depends on the route. If we get a ton of ITTs I think he's ****ed, but I think it is possible for him to climb with the best when he is at his best. He is also still only 24 years old.

If he goes for it he can win Catalunya or Suisse. A lot will depend on if he rides those for training or to win.

I wouldn't bet money on him either, but I don't bet at all so... :D
You don't have to answer to damian13ster. He is just hurt ever since Quintana left Kwiat in the dust in the Tour de France. He cannot stand that everyone has something to say about Quintana.

The sad part is that a lot of fans love Kwiat. He is just a different kind of rider. All terrains. But the Gt's are not his strength yet. Not sure why he keeps putting hate posts in this thread and it is getting old.

Do you really believe him when he said that there are many riders that are better climbers than Quintana so for that reason he has no chance in the Tour? That’s right Quintana will get beaten in the mountains by a lot of riders.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Escarabajo said:
You don't have to answer to damian13ster. He is just hurt ever since Quintana left Kwiat in the dust in the Tour de France. He cannot stand that everyone has something to say about Quintana.

The sad part is that a lot of fans love Kwiat. He is just a different kind of rider. All terrains. But the Gt's are not his strength yet. Not sure why he keeps putting hate posts in this thread and it is getting old.

Do you really believe him when he said that there are many riders that are better climbers than Quintana so for that reason he has no chance in the Tour? That’s right Quintana will get beaten in the mountains by a lot of riders.
Yea, he certainly seems to have a problem with Quintana.

No, Quintana is one of the absolute best climbers currently.
 
Escarabajo said:
You don't have to answer to damian13ster. He is just hurt ever since Quintana left Kwiat in the dust in the Tour de France. He cannot stand that everyone has something to say about Quintana.

The sad part is that a lot of fans love Kwiat. He is just a different kind of rider. All terrains. But the Gt's are not his strength yet. Not sure why he keeps putting hate posts in this thread and it is getting old.

Do you really believe him when he said that there are many riders that are better climbers than Quintana so for that reason he has no chance in the Tour? That’s right Quintana will get beaten in the mountains by a lot of riders.
Wow, where did that come from? I never advocated that Kwiatkowski is a GC rider. I repeatedly stated that he should focus on the classics and win couple of monuments before even trying to compete at GT.

Besides, non of my posts have been a hate posts. Just a judgement on a situation. He is worse than other GC riders in the TT and hasnt shown enough to make me believe he can drop them (and drop them hard to make up all the time lost in TT) in the mountains. And nowhere did I say there are many riders better than Quintana in the mountains. I just rate him lower than Froome and Contador and on par with Nibali. Thats freaking 3rd in the world...... But Froome, Contador and Nibali are better at TTs, so at which point my argument doesnt have merit? But yeah, if you think 3 riders are a lot then sure, you got a point there.

And yeah, I am not a fan of Quintana, not since the Stelvio stage and the interviews afterwards. Absolutely nothing to do with Tour 2013, and even suggesting the latter is kind of ridiculous.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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But you have to admit you are an ultimate quintana troll :p:D. Its ok, I got use to it.


I agree Im disappointed with not going to the Giro, but I understand it, he has got a really big chance to lead a freakin Movistar.
His Tour success will a lot depend on parcourse, froome tt form and Contador fatigue. He can of course ride with them in the mountains, maybe even drop them (thats a ?) but if there is single 50km tt he is pretty fvcked with Froome in top form and relaxed AC.
 
No, I dont admit to that. Saying that he is top 3/4 in the world is not trolling, especially he never beat neither of the top 3 guys (Nibali, Froome, Contador) that were in good shape at a time in a serious race.

So there is absolutely nothing that would justify putting him above any of those riders as a GT contender, as long as GTs dont consist of 21 long MTF stages.
If he proves me wrong in Tour, I will admit I was wrong. Up to this point I am making my opinion based on facts.

And those are:
he lost Tour against Froome by a freaking mile.
he won Giro (barely) against second-tier GC riders, and all thanks to the confusion during Stelvio stage, without proving once in a race that he would be able to cover his earlier losses without that incident (barely beating Aru in MTT, losing most of the MTFs, not once having an advantage over 20s over nearest GC contender on a MTF)

Those facts don't merit putting him above any other, and that connected with his calendar makes me (and many users that agreed with it already) believe he might not win a single race in 2015.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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damian13ster said:
No, I dont admit to that. Saying that he is top 3/4 in the world is not trolling, especially he never beat neither of the top 3 guys (Nibali, Froome, Contador) that were in good shape at a time in a serious race.

So there is absolutely nothing that would justify putting him above any of those riders as a GT contender, as long as GTs dont consist of 21 long MTF stages.
If he proves me wrong in Tour, I will admit I was wrong. Up to this point I am making my opinion based on facts.

And those are:
he lost Tour against Froome by a freaking mile.
he won Giro (barely) against second-tier GC riders, and all thanks to the confusion during Stelvio stage, without proving once in a race that he would be able to cover his earlier losses without that incident (barely beating Aru in MTT, losing most of the MTFs, not once having an advantage over 20s over nearest GC contender on a MTF)

Those facts don't merit putting him above any other, and that connected with his calendar makes me (and many users that agreed with it already) believe he might not win a single race in 2015.
The main point is, you estimate his ability and talent lower than they are, thats one of thepoints of knowledge, you can predict (a bit) what will happen in the future. But because your hate (we won't agree on this ;)) you estimate his ability wrong and thats why your prediction will be wrong.He will drop Froome next year, remember this.
 
I agree he can drop Froome, but after he is already 4+ minutes behind him in GC :D

I see another problem here. Everybody here overestimates his ability, based on the fact that a guy who had ****load of minutes over him in GC let him go on couple of stages. Then the real hype began. And Giro came, he again wasn't impressive at all. No kick to get rid of other riders, just one stage win, outclimbed on couple of stages by Aru, wasnt able to put serious time into his opponents (second-tied GC riders), and gets a win because of **** that happened at Stelvio (and even on that stage he wasn't able to truly drop freaking Ryder Hesjedal (if I remember correctly margin was single digit in seconds). Nothing impressive. Yet people still react like he is some kind of world beater. Until he proves otherwise and gets a real win, in a way that doesn't make cycling fans and his opponents question his moral integrity, then we can talk.

So the point is: you estimate his abilities and talent higher then they are, and higher than his results show, because of your fanboyism that clouds your judgement. And based on his not very impressive results, I predict that he won't win a single WT race next season, if he has Froome, Contador, or in-form Nibali as his opponent. Feel free to bookmark this post.
 
damian13ster said:
I agree he can drop Froome, but after he is already 4+ minutes behind him in GC :D

No kick to get rid of other riders, just one stage win, outclimbed on couple of stages by Aru, .
Let's analyze time differences in all mountains stages this year in Giro:
Stage8
Aru 11s behind Quintana
Stage14
Aru 4s behind Quintana
Stage15
Quintana 22s behind Aru
Stage 16
Aru 3m40s behind Quintana
Stage18
Quintana 3s behind Aru
Stage19
Aru 17s behind Quintana
Stage20
Aru 16s behind Quintana

With or without stage16, Aru is still behind Quintana. Few other things:
1) Quintana gained only few seconds on Hesjedal, because he did all the work on the climb and on the flat part before the climb. Just like Contador did all the work in stage 5 Tirreno-Adriatico and gained only 6 seconds on Geschke.
2) Quintana was sick during part of the Giro and had breathing problems, he also crashed in the first part of the Giro
3) "you estimate his abilities and talent higher then they are" - for me Quintana is one of the most underrated riders in the current peleton, because a) second in his first Tour de France at he age of 23 (while he was not a leader in first part of the tour and probably lost a lot of time because of this in first two mountains stages, about 2 minutes) and b) his Vo2max is 90 (as reported) = one of the biggest talents in the history of cycling.
 
TomekA said:
Let's analyze time differences in all mountains stages this year in Giro:
Stage8
Aru 11s behind Quintana
Stage14
Aru 4s behind Quintana
Stage15
Quintana 22s behind Aru
Stage 16
Aru 3m40s behind Quintana
Stage18
Quintana 3s behind Aru
Stage19
Aru 17s behind Quintana
Stage20
Aru 16s behind Quintana

With or without stage16, Aru is still behind Quintana. Few other things:
1) Quintana gained only few seconds on Hesjedal, because he did all the work on the climb and on the flat part before the climb. Just like Contador did all the work in stage 5 Tirreno-Adriatico and gained only 6 seconds on Geschke.
2) Quintana was sick during part of the Giro and had breathing problems, he also crashed in the first part of the Giro
3) "you estimate his abilities and talent higher then they are" - for me Quintana is one of the most underrated riders in the current peleton, because a) second in his first Tour de France at he age of 23 (while he was not a leader in first part of the tour and probably lost a lot of time because of this in first two mountains stages, about 2 minutes) and b) his Vo2max is 90 (as reported) = one of the biggest talents in the history of cycling.
I am not saying Aru would have won the GC. But take a look at the times you posted (of course excluding stage 16). Quintana beat Aru (inexperienced GC rider that started cycling fairly late) by a whooping 29 seconds! On 6 MTFs. I dont call that impressive at all.
1. Yeah, he did all the work on the climb (they were cooperating on the flat), still, apparently best climber in the generation just beating Hesjedal by 7 seconds.......Especially since there were times taht Ryder went off the back, yet he managed to come back to Quintana. Again, not impressed
2. Yeah, the crash wasn't serious at all, most of GC contenders did crash there.
3. You are kidding, right? Most posters here think he is semi-god and ****s gold. How is that underestimating? Yeah, he took 2nd in the Tour, but look at the time gap.....He was never even close to winning that race, and ther isnt any evidence- none whatsoever- that he made up that gap and is now better than Froome. So far its just all hype, and thats the very definition of overrating someone.
 
damian13ster said:
I am not saying Aru would have won the GC. But take a look at the times you posted (of course excluding stage 16). Quintana beat Aru (inexperienced GC rider that started cycling fairly late) by a whooping 29 seconds! On 6 MTFs. I dont call that impressive at all.
1. Yeah, he did all the work on the climb (they were cooperating on the flat), still, apparently best climber in the generation just beating Hesjedal by 7 seconds.......Especially since there were times taht Ryder went off the back, yet he managed to come back to Quintana. Again, not impressed
2. Yeah, the crash wasn't serious at all, most of GC contenders did crash there.
3. You are kidding, right? Most posters here think he is semi-god and ****s gold. How is that underestimating? Yeah, he took 2nd in the Tour, but look at the time gap.....He was never even close to winning that race, and ther isnt any evidence- none whatsoever- that he made up that gap and is now better than Froome. So far its just all hype, and thats the very definition of overrating someone.
You addressed the crash. Why didn't you address the part where TomekA said he was sick?
Edit: and oh ya in the crash: Quintana got hurt. The other GC guys (except for Jrod) were not hurt.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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Good man Nairo doing the Tour, why do what Tinkoff wants you to do. Oh and please make Valverde do the Giro all the people saying Froome won't do the Giro, as Valverde ever even done the Giro? And the guy is like 34/35.
 
TANK91 said:
Good man Nairo doing the Tour, why do what Tinkoff wants you to do. Oh and please make Valverde do the Giro all the people saying Froome won't do the Giro, as Valverde ever even done the Giro? And the guy is like 34/35.
He's a Spanish Tour contender riding for a Spanish team. His country has a grand tour called the Vuelta. He's also one of the best in the Ardennes so that is his other yearly focus. Before Quintana came along who would they have for the Tour/Vuelta if Valverde did the Giro? Of course if he did the Giro he could ride the Vuelta but prior to the arrival of Quintana, who would be their leader for the Tour?
 
Aug 4, 2010
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damian13ster said:
I agree he can drop Froome, but after he is already 4+ minutes behind him in GC

I see another problem here. Everybody here overestimates his ability, based on the fact that a guy who had ****load of minutes over him in GC let him go on couple of stages. Then the real hype began. And Giro came, he again wasn't impressive at all. No kick to get rid of other riders, just one stage win, outclimbed on couple of stages by Aru, wasnt able to put serious time into his opponents (second-tied GC riders), and gets a win because of **** that happened at Stelvio (and even on that stage he wasn't able to truly drop freaking Ryder Hesjedal (if I remember correctly margin was single digit in seconds). Nothing impressive. Yet people still react like he is some kind of world beater. Until he proves otherwise and gets a real win, in a way that doesn't make cycling fans and his opponents question his moral integrity, then we can talk.

So the point is: you estimate his abilities and talent higher then they are, and higher than his results show, because of your fanboyism that clouds your judgement. And based on his not very impressive results, I predict that he won't win a single WT race next season, if he has Froome, Contador, or in-form Nibali as his opponent. Feel free to bookmark this post.
Nope,you are wrong,your judgement is incorect.You know something about cycling probably but your mind is probably weaker than your knowledge hence you cant correctly apply your knowledge into your judgement about Quintana (also biased other way around as me).

But its somewhat funny to discuss with you,:D you are not in my ignore which is impressive as I dont like to talk with stupid people on internet (wasted time).
arrogant? noo..,judging from your post Im sure Im right and only stating the truth.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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It's reasonable to think Quintana will be better than ever in 2015 given his age. He might be the best climber although I think it's still a year too early. I expect Froome and depending on fatigue, Contador to drop him. Perhaps even Nibali.

What is completely egregious is the assertion that he has already been the best climber.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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ILovecycling said:
you estimate his ability and talent lower than they are, thats one of thepoints of knowledge
On the other hand you overestimate his abilities too .
"Best climber since Pantani" :rolleyes: :p

You'll probably agree on the fact that Nairo is tad too overhyped by the press. He is great climber, I'd rate him higher than Nibs but that's it . Problem is some are thinking he must be some sort of a superman with super genetics/super natural abilities which automatically makes him the best climber all time (no kidding, I've already seen these kind of comments) . This is completely cliché.

Of course he is young and still has some room for improvement ( then again who knows?), but don't jinx him too much like some ppl did with Andy ;)
He still has everything to prove.
 
Nairos fans are a funny breed.

There are certain rules fans set up. Contadors fans (not all of course) are the most pessimistic, anxious and sensitive for every sign of what Alberto may show. And likewise is the rule that his critics set up harsh and brutal: is he not winning a race in October? It will be difficult to beat (insert favorite rider) in the Tour 2015. Not winning a sprint? The form isnt there. Not contending a sprint? He is on decline. Not winning by six minutes on the first ever uphill? Questionable form. Not attacking on the first day in leaders jersey? Worst wheelsucker ever. Then we have a large gathering who still thinks its 2013 (Froome fans wave to the camera).

I'll skip Nibalis boys. There is a certain vibe going on.

But then we got Nairo. Good lord. Does the man have any pressures and demands to perform at least one inch of what his gang of ultra-nationalistic colombians are telling us? It's like: ok. He won barely Giro and is the greatest ever from now on and until eternity. No questions asked. Remember this Vuelta? Nairo barely beat a very below par Moreno in Burgos and CN forum was like: He'll drive home Vuelta with one leg. Or riding backwards.

Come Vuelta and the excuses started early. Did Nairo actually got dropped on the first ever uphill? No problem. He was "taking it cool" and was like: "Yo Alejandro. I'll let you handle this. Myself going to drop some 12 seconds to Christopher and Velasco because i am so damn good and dont have any pressure to perform". That was one theory. The other theory was that it was too warm and Nairo are born in a climate where he absolutely needs rain and temperatures around 12 degrees to be a ultra-badass. Lost huge chunk of time in the first split on a time-trial? No problemo. Assuming the spanish weather drops to 13 degrees of course. Crashing in the same time trial? No problemo. He'll handle these multiple GT-winners which he somehow is better than (but never needs to actually perform against to prove) because we just say so. And, of course, it must rain.

Give me a break.:rolleyes:
 
Aug 4, 2010
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BlurryVII said:
On the other hand you overestimate his abilities too .
"Best climber since Pantani" :rolleyes: :

You'll probably agree on the fact that Nairo is tad too overhyped by the press. He is great climber, I'd rate him higher than Nibs but that's it . Problem is some are thinking he must be some sort of a superman with super genetics/super natural abilities which automatically makes him the best climber all time (no kidding, I've already seen these kind of comments) . This is completely cliché.

Of course he is young and still has some room for improvement ( then again who knows?), but don't jinx him too much like some ppl did with Andy ;)
He still has everything to prove.
I dont say he is now.But he will be throughout his career.;)Best since Pantani.
Thats why I have this quote in my sig, cuz I believe it.;)He will prove it one day.For now,only few people can understand his potential.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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No_Balls said:
Nairos fans are a funny breed.

There are certain rules fans set up. Contadors fans (not all of course) are the most pessimistic, anxious and sensitive for every sign of what Alberto may show. And likewise is the rule that his critics set up harsh and brutal: is he not winning a race in October? It will be difficult to beat (insert favorite rider) in the Tour 2015. Not winning a sprint? The form isnt there. Not contending a sprint? He is on decline. Not winning by six minutes on the first ever uphill? Questionable form. Not attacking on the first day in leaders jersey? Worst wheelsucker ever. Then we have a large gathering who still thinks its 2013 (Froome fans wave to the camera).

I'll skip Nibalis boys. There is a certain vibe going on.

But then we got Nairo. Good lord. Does the man have any pressures and demands to perform at least one inch of what his gang of ultra-nationalistic colombians are telling us? It's like: ok. He won barely Giro and is the greatest ever from now on and until eternity. No questions asked. Remember this Vuelta? Nairo barely beat a very below par Moreno in Burgos and CN forum was like: He'll drive home Vuelta with one leg. Or riding backwards.

Come Vuelta and the excuses started early. Did Nairo actually got dropped on the first ever uphill? No problem. He was "taking it cool" and was like: "Yo Alejandro. I'll let you handle this. Myself going to drop some 12 seconds to Christopher and Velasco because i am so damn good and dont have any pressure to perform". That was one theory. The other theory was that it was too warm and Nairo are born in a climate where he absolutely needs rain and temperatures around 12 degrees to be a ultra-badass. Lost huge chunk of time in the first split on a time-trial? No problemo. Assuming the spanish weather drops to 13 degrees of course. Crashing in the same time trial? No problemo. He'll handle these multiple GT-winners which he somehow is better than (but never needs to actually perform against to prove) because we just say so. And, of course, it must rain.

Give me a break.:rolleyes:
nahh dont overhype the hype:p
 
Angliru said:
He's a Spanish Tour contender riding for a Spanish team. His country has a grand tour called the Vuelta. He's also one of the best in the Ardennes so that is his other yearly focus. Before Quintana came along who would they have for the Tour/Vuelta if Valverde did the Giro? Of course if he did the Giro he could ride the Vuelta but prior to the arrival of Quintana, who would be their leader for the Tour?
Óscar Pereiro a few years ago.

Maybe Purito at one point if Unzué had been prepared to see him as more than Valverde for the B team.
 

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