Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Sagan sacrified himself on many occasions for Contador in that 2015-Tour when he didnt have any legs at all. Pretty sad to think about these great teams Contador have had from 13-15 when he for various reasons havent been able to contend, that would have made those Tours pretty good.

Valverde would do the same, question is if he feels Quintana can win the Tour....

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Except he and Sagan are the two riders in the peloton that can do whatever they want without repercussions. Two years ago he was talking about loosing time so he could go stage hunting, he just never got around to loosing time. The team's actual response to that was, he can do what he wants. Also you may have missed it when Mr Unzue said last summer when he got hurt that he has an open contract and can race for them for as long as he wants to. That there will always be a place for him. He said Valverde is the only rider he's ever given that to.

I think you're doing Valverde a bit of a dis-service here. I agree completely that he could do whatever he wanted within Movistar, but I just don't think he would, I think he has more character than that. If Quintana was in with a chance of winning, then I'm sure Valverde would work hard for him - not go chasing stages.

I'm sure Sagan would have sacrificed himself as well if Contador would ever have been in a position to challenge for the Tour (in fact I think he did in one of the cobbled stages).

He did. He's also helped Kreuziger get a top 10 and Majka the polkadots by drilling mountain breaks in the last week in 2016.

 

[Koronin]

Sagan has on several occasions for both Contador and Majka.

With Valverde I think he'd have to truly think Quintana could actually win AND would actually do something, which he has not proven he will do. I don't think he would if he doesn't think Quintana can win. I'm not sure he's entirely happy about today either. He sacrificed himself today for literally nothing. Same with Soler. They can't be happy.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Sagan has on several occasions for both Contador and Majka.

With Valverde I think he'd have to truly think Quintana could actually win AND would actually do something, which he has not proven he will do. I don't think he would if he doesn't think Quintana can win. I'm not sure he's entirely happy about today either. He sacrificed himself today for literally nothing. Same with Soler. They can't be happy.

Well, in 2014 he did ride an entire climb on the front for Nairo. That didn't prevent him from winning the sprint on the top of said climb, mind.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Sagan has on several occasions for both Contador and Majka.

With Valverde I think he'd have to truly think Quintana could actually win AND would actually do something, which he has not proven he will do. I don't think he would if he doesn't think Quintana can win. I'm not sure he's entirely happy about today either. He sacrificed himself today for literally nothing. Same with Soler. They can't be happy.

Well, in 2014 he did ride an entire climb on the front for Nairo. That didn't prevent him from winning the sprint on the top of said climb, mind.

Actually that more proves he'll help, but won't sacrifice himself either. After today, I'm not entirely sure anyone actually believes Quintana can win.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

He won the Vuelta because he was the strongest climber in the race and because he seized the opportunity to join in when Contador attacked. You make it look like he was just lucky. He wasn't.

Which is why he is their GT leader and will remain so for the forseeable future I imagine.

Valverde has been promised the Vuelta. Rumors in Spain are Quintana is breaking his contract and leaving at the end of the year. Rather that's true or not, who knows, but those are the rumors in Spain.

Leave to which team? Trek got Richie. Bahrain has Nibali. UEA has Aru. Sky has Froome and future Bernal (which is better than Quintana). Astana?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He won the Vuelta because he was the strongest climber in the race and because he seized the opportunity to join in when Contador attacked. You make it look like he was just lucky. He wasn't.

Which is why he is their GT leader and will remain so for the forseeable future I imagine.

Valverde has been promised the Vuelta. Rumors in Spain are Quintana is breaking his contract and leaving at the end of the year. Rather that's true or not, who knows, but those are the rumors in Spain.

Leave to which team? Trek got Richie. Bahrain has Nibali. UEA has Aru. Sky has Froome and future Bernal (which is better than Quintana). Astana?[/quote]


Trek and Astana were the rumors and the bigger one last year was Astana than Trek.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

He is clearly the strongest of the movistar trio and much better than the eternally overhyped Mikel Landa.

But today he was put in a difficult spot. If he was able to he should have been with Thomas. But I think he just didn't have the legs. And the people in his group (Bardet, Roglic, etc) all looked to him mainly to do the chasing. And he knew that would not have paid off. Looks further away from the Tour victory than ever.

If Quintana can't beat Froome when he is attempting the double, he never will until age finally takes it's toll on Froome and by then Quintana will have new rivals as well. There was nothing difficult about his position. He is down on time watching riders ahead of him on GC ride up the road. He has to chase even if his rivals sit behind him. He is one of the race favourites but Dan Martin rides away from him. He is so passive. He reminds me a lot of Andy Schleck always looking over his shoulder for help. If Landa is over hyped so is Quintana, at least Landa has an excuse. Quintana never risks it all like Martin and often he loses races in the first half by not taking risks. The race is now half over and once again it's looking bad for Quintana. If he doesn't make the podium of the Tour he should do the Giro/Vuelta next year as he might win one of them.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He is clearly the strongest of the movistar trio and much better than the eternally overhyped Mikel Landa.

But today he was put in a difficult spot. If he was able to he should have been with Thomas. But I think he just didn't have the legs. And the people in his group (Bardet, Roglic, etc) all looked to him mainly to do the chasing. And he knew that would not have paid off. Looks further away from the Tour victory than ever.

If Quintana can't beat Froome when he is attempting the double, he never will until age finally takes it's toll on Froome and by then Quintana will have new rivals as well. There was nothing difficult about his position. He is down on time watching riders ahead of him on GC ride up the road. He has to chase even if his rivals sit behind him. He is one of the race favourites but Dan Martin rides away from him. He is so passive. He reminds me a lot of Andy Schleck always looking over his shoulder for help. If Landa is over hyped so is Quintana, at least Landa has an excuse. Quintana never risks it all like Martin and often he loses races in the first half by not taking risks. The race is now half over and once again it's looking bad for Quintana. If he doesn't make the podium of the Tour he should do the Giro/Vuelta next year as he might win one of them.

That's very unlikely for Movistar to do that. Valverde has been wanting to do the Giro/Vuelta double for about 2 years now and was really hoping that with Landa there he'd finally be able to not go to the Tour.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Long way to go to Paris, folks. But I really expected more from Quintana today. Maybe he’s holding some back for tomorrow.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

We will know on the Alpe if he wants to win this race. If he doesn’t at least try, I’m not sure what his motivation will be for the rest of the race.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

He is clearly the strongest of the movistar trio and much better than the eternally overhyped Mikel Landa.

But today he was put in a difficult spot. If he was able to he should have been with Thomas. But I think he just didn't have the legs. And the people in his group (Bardet, Roglic, etc) all looked to him mainly to do the chasing. And he knew that would not have paid off. Looks further away from the Tour victory than ever.

If Quintana can't beat Froome when he is attempting the double, he never will until age finally takes it's toll on Froome and by then Quintana will have new rivals as well. There was nothing difficult about his position. He is down on time watching riders ahead of him on GC ride up the road. He has to chase even if his rivals sit behind him. He is one of the race favourites but Dan Martin rides away from him. He is so passive. He reminds me a lot of Andy Schleck always looking over his shoulder for help. If Landa is over hyped so is Quintana, at least Landa has an excuse. Quintana never risks it all like Martin and often he loses races in the first half by not taking risks. The race is now half over and once again it's looking bad for Quintana. If he doesn't make the podium of the Tour he should do the Giro/Vuelta next year as he might win one of them.

That's very unlikely for Movistar to do that. Valverde has been wanting to do the Giro/Vuelta double for about 2 years now and was really hoping that with Landa there he'd finally be able to not go to the Tour.

I thought Valverde might be getting to the stage now where one grand tour is enough for him as he also has the classics and the shorter stage races. Surely Landa and Quintana won't ride the same grand tour next year.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He is clearly the strongest of the movistar trio and much better than the eternally overhyped Mikel Landa.

But today he was put in a difficult spot. If he was able to he should have been with Thomas. But I think he just didn't have the legs. And the people in his group (Bardet, Roglic, etc) all looked to him mainly to do the chasing. And he knew that would not have paid off. Looks further away from the Tour victory than ever.

If Quintana can't beat Froome when he is attempting the double, he never will until age finally takes it's toll on Froome and by then Quintana will have new rivals as well. There was nothing difficult about his position. He is down on time watching riders ahead of him on GC ride up the road. He has to chase even if his rivals sit behind him. He is one of the race favourites but Dan Martin rides away from him. He is so passive. He reminds me a lot of Andy Schleck always looking over his shoulder for help. If Landa is over hyped so is Quintana, at least Landa has an excuse. Quintana never risks it all like Martin and often he loses races in the first half by not taking risks. The race is now half over and once again it's looking bad for Quintana. If he doesn't make the podium of the Tour he should do the Giro/Vuelta next year as he might win one of them.

That's very unlikely for Movistar to do that. Valverde has been wanting to do the Giro/Vuelta double for about 2 years now and was really hoping that with Landa there he'd finally be able to not go to the Tour.

I thought Valverde might be getting to the stage now where one grand tour is enough for him as he also has the classics and the shorter stage races. Surely Landa and Quintana won't ride the same grand tour next year.

You'd think so, but he's talked about really wanted to try that double. It might be because he's never done that double before.
I wouldn't be shocked if both Landa and Quintana are at the Tour again next year.

 

[Bolder]

Re:

Long way to go to Paris, folks. But I really expected more from Quintana today. Maybe he’s holding some back for tomorrow.

I don't think he was holding back. Soler and Valverde set the table for him but he couldn't take advantage. I thought he'd attack on the base of Rosiere.

TBH he is not the rider he was a few years ago, OR his rivals have found another level, OR Movistar's tactics aren't good, OR the first 9 stages of the Tour don't suit a light climber. I suspect it's a combination of all of the above.

All that said, I'm not optimistic that he'll be good on the Alpe today -- but will be cheering for him and Nibali.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re: Re:

Long way to go to Paris, folks. But I really expected more from Quintana today. Maybe he’s holding some back for tomorrow.

I don't think he was holding back. Soler and Valverde set the table for him but he couldn't take advantage. I thought he'd attack on the base of Rosiere.

TBH he is not the rider he was a few years ago, OR his rivals have found another level, OR Movistar's tactics aren't good, OR the first 9 stages of the Tour don't suit a light climber. I suspect it's a combination of all of the above.

All that said, I'm not optimistic that he'll be good on the Alpe today -- but will be cheering for him and Nibali.

I wouldn't rule him out just yet. I think that he just made wrong decisions yesterday and the result isn't really representative of his current form. He looked good in Tour de Suisse stage 7 when he attacked from the bottom of a very long climb and didn't get any help from other riders. I imagine that he can't be worse than that at the moment.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Long way to go to Paris, folks. But I really expected more from Quintana today. Maybe he’s holding some back for tomorrow.

I don't think he was holding back. Soler and Valverde set the table for him but he couldn't take advantage. I thought he'd attack on the base of Rosiere.

TBH he is not the rider he was a few years ago, OR his rivals have found another level, OR Movistar's tactics aren't good, OR the first 9 stages of the Tour don't suit a light climber. I suspect it's a combination of all of the above.

All that said, I'm not optimistic that he'll be good on the Alpe today -- but will be cheering for him and Nibali.

I agree with most of this. But I also think that the group was too big and too talented to go so early and then those final ramps of La Rosiere were just a bit too fast for him. Blockhaus, Covandonga, La Camperona...when Nairo does well early in a GT it's on the steep final ramps of a climb.

So maybe he does a bit better today. If he loses time on Alpe d'Huez, though, then he's clearly missing a gear.

 

[telencefalus]

i refuse to believe that nairo is on decline , he said that in future he wants to do again the giro-tour i trust him , Yesterday he loses a minute to thomas in 5 km at 5 % gradient i find this not normal from thomas part not Nairo

 

[AlexNYC]

i refuse to believe that nairo is on decline , he said that in future he wants to do again the giro-tour i trust him , Yesterday he loses a minute to thomas in 5 km at 5 % gradient i find this not normal from thomas part not Nairo

That’s also something that sticks out in my mind. Ok, let’s assume he has declined, but what to make of Thomas? Sorry, I don’t buy it. I think Quintana hasn’t improved that much since his earlier years, but that doesn’t begin to explain the whole story.

Let’s see what happens today. I think he will be good, but not enough to get back in contention and might even lose additional time. I hope I’m wrong about that last point.

 

[Moviestar]

Really disappointing from Nairo. The whole season he refers to the Tour as the event where he wants to be at 100%, he even made some unusual changes in his pre-Tour schedule and then he performs like this.. He seems to stagnate in his development for some reason, perhaps better to change teams at the end of the season and go to a team like Astana. Wouldn't surprise me if this would be his last Tour in Movistar coulours.

 

[SafeBet]

I can't believe this is the same rider I saw in the Tour de Suisse.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Really disappointing from Nairo. The whole season he refers to the Tour as the event where he wants to be at 100%, he even made some unusual changes in his pre-Tour schedule and then he performs like this.. He seems to stagnate in his development for some reason, perhaps better to change teams at the end of the season and go to a team like Astana. Wouldn't surprise me if this would be his last Tour in Movistar coulours.

I agree 100%. Maybe new environment and new people can help him back on track. We know what he is capable of, but he is not able to achieve it at the moment.

I can't believe this is the same rider I saw in the Tour de Suisse.

He has somehow lost is form.

 

[Eclipse]

I just do not understand what has happened to him.

I understand not improving if you are swift to peak but he's slid backwards drastically the last 2 years despite remaining in the same environment.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Really disappointing from Nairo. The whole season he refers to the Tour as the event where he wants to be at 100%, he even made some unusual changes in his pre-Tour schedule and then he performs like this.. He seems to stagnate in his development for some reason, perhaps better to change teams at the end of the season like Astana. Wouldn't surprise me if this would be his last Tour in Movistar coulours.

Seems right now he just can't cope with the raw power that the 70kg heavyweights can sustain in the mountains these days. None of the lightweights can handle it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I guess you finally start to see Dumoulin is not the shitty climber you made him out to be? Even with the Giro in the legs he's far ahead of Quintana

 

[Escarabajo]

Quintana doing a Betancur this year. He needs to be careful with what he does in Colombia with his own diet and training.

This looks like the 2016 Tour Quintana. Then he rode into form and won the Vuelta later on.