National Football League

[Merckx index]

Re: Re:

I ask again, since you mocked me and Kelly as the only ones "in the world" who rate Bradford above Foles, I ask who are all these people who rate Foles higher. You can't come up with an answer, not posting is a better course of action than telling me to shut up.

Hitch, as Alpe pointed out earlier, you’ll have a hard time finding any sportswriter who thinks giving up Foles for Bradford was a good idea. I think I’ve read one who thinks it might make sense, but the great majority of them have scratched their heads over the trade. And please note that it goes beyond comparing the two directly. To get Bradford, the Eagles also traded a no. 2 pick. And Bradford’s salary is about $11 million more than Foles’s, which is the same amount Maclin wanted. So the Eagles in effect gave up their best WR and a no. 2 draft pick and Foles—who has better numbers than Bradford, and who showed a best case scenario in 2013 that Bradford has not come close to—for Bradford.

As you say, the majority is not always right, but Horner is not a very good analogy. The people who think Horner is clean are mostly fanboys and relatively ignorant or willfully blind about doping. The people who think the Eagles made a bad trade include not simply most fans—good luck finding many in Philly who liked the trade, I would say the anti-Kelly sentiments were at least 9:1—but very knowledgeable writers.

Anyway, if I owned an NFL team, I’d take a chance on Foxxy as HC. For only $50,000, think of all the money I’d have left over to buy good players. I trust his judgment on the field, though I might be concerned he’d open his mouth about political/social issues and alienate much of the fan base.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Thanks Merckx, I agree with all you said (incl. the last sentence ;-)
To defend myself against Hitch one last time:
While I was wrong many times as everybody is, I can safely say my QB & RB predictions worked out very well (RG3 pre and after injury, PM, Glennon, back-ups, etc; and the 1998-Cunningham prediction was the one who got me the name "QB-Guru" over here). Thus I feel a little pissed when Hitch tries his usual clinic bait tactics here. But here its not working (as it didnt in the PM case pre playoffs). I have the facts and numbers and posters on my side. Before Hitch joined we discussed, sometimes widley disagreeing, but not much spaming and trolling. Lets hope it gets back to this point. This thread shall not become another toilet fight like it is in other threads...
My two cents.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

USA Today, Bleacher Report, NY Times, SI, ESPN, ESPN radio and their hosts, same with Fox Sports and CBS Sports radio and their talking heads. Nearly all of them either were puzzled by the Bradford-Foles trade at best, or were outwardly critical about it. About the most positive things I've heard are that it's a "risk" and Sam ran a good hurry-up in college, which if he's healthy, might work. It really is one of the most strange trades I can think of. Even if Sam stays healthy for all 16 games, and I honestly hope he does, the Eagles need OL help (ask Foles), lost their best WR, are heavy at RB, and since Bradford's arm is average at best, and he's shown no real accuracy with deep passes or quick hard throws outside the lines (think Aaron Rodgers), I can only imagine Kelly has some sort of offense involving 2 step drop and throw quick slants and screens. If it works in this league, this coming season, he's a genius. Even then, I just don't see how Bradford would be better for such an offense than Foles.

I can't see the Skins trading RG3 at this point, but you never know. He may be a problem, and have too much of an ego and direct line to the megalomaniac owner's ear, but that doesn't equal trade. Even if his knee is forever partly screwed up. I will say for about the fifth time, if I were an NFL team I'd be looking to get Kirk Cousins. That is the one backup QB I would try to get and groom. Still think that guy can be an elite QB in this league. Maybe not MVP, but as good as someone like Matt Ryan for example.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

I can only imagine Kelly has some sort of offense involving 2 step drop and throw quick slants and screens. If it works in this league, this coming season, he's a genius.

But only for one year max, if at all...
New "gadget" offenses work for a while as surprise (like the "wildcat")... but in the end, when everybody caught up (usually it needs just one off-season), better talent prevails. Thus Kelly is doomed anyway, by replacing better players with worse ones, and wasting cap money & draft picks on top of that.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good point. I think that is one of the things that made Tom Landry such a brilliant coach for his time. Some people criticized him for gimmicks, but the fact is he coached an ever evolving offense with new ideas for many years. The shotgun formation, shovel pass, many more, all used by him when others were not. Then he'd move on when they became the norm.

Some rule changes were outright rejected and some approved today. Rejected was the use of sideline cameras, due to "cost". Cost? Really, in a league with $11b in revenue? They can't put 8 or so 4k cameras fixed in each stadium, when many similar cameras are already used by broadcast TV? Bill Belicheck's desire to have every play reviewed was once again rejected. But the league did approve the rule forcing players declaring ineligible must go to the tackle box (call it the anti-Belicheck rule).

I keep expecting ruling that more replay calls will be reviewed in New York at the headquarters, and just relayed to the referees to speed up the game (like baseball does), but that hasn't happened.

They voted against reviewing whether time expired on the play clock before the ball is snapped. This goes way back to the AFC divisional game when Baltimore beat Tennessee on an obvious late snap that cost the Titans the game.

Receivers are now protected from hits even if the ball is intercepted or tipped, providing the receiver is in a vulnerable position. Picture a ball tipped at the line of scrimmage, and a puny wide receiver was leaping for it, and he now gets hammered by the free safety anyway. Can't do that anymore.

Peelback [chop] blocks were also banned, and that's good news.

RB chop blocks outside tackle box are also banned. What was happening is that while a OT hits a DE or blizting LB high, a RB could hit them low. You didn't see it a lot, but this is now a personal foul.

One safety rule approved is that any medical staff can call a timeout if a player seems hurt or disoriented. This is a delicate rule in reaction when when Julien Edleman was hammered by Kam Chancelor in the Superbowl, but stayed in (and wasn't further hurt). But the committee did their best to define it. The clock would stop, the player would have to come out of the game, and the other team may substitute a player. If the play ended in bounds, the clock would start on the referee's signal, not the following snap. The hope is that teams won't use it just to get a quick free time-out and substitution in a tough situation.

Haven't heard anything on PUP players returning sooner, nor the 75 player cut eliminated.

Still wish to give big props to the NFL overall, and rules committee, for moving forward. They always say they want to make sure they get it right, and keep moving towards safety. While we may question that at times, compared to many other sports, they are very progressive in attempts to improve the game. If FIFA ran the NFL the forward pass would still be banned.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hey Foxxy, some great news for you! The NFL is looking to play a regular season game in Germany, if not this year, then the next! They also are looking to play a game in Mexico too. Both countries have been quite positive towards NFL football in the past, and I'm sure would again. Looks like more games in London too. But the league is also considering at least pre-season games in China, or Brazil. The Pro Bowl could be played in Brazil too. Some grumpy people are wondering why the NFL doesn't play some games in cities that could use a team, like Los Angeles, San Antonio, Portland, Oklahoma City, etc. And that's a good question, other than current stadium issues. Interesting factoid: The most populated city in Ohio is...not Cleveland, not Cincinnati, it's Columbus, which is bigger than both of those two combined! How many pro teams does Columbus have?

Johnathan Martin has been cut by the 49ers. Kind of tough considering the thug he'll forever be tied to, Richie Incognito, has been signed by the Bills.

The Rams have indicated they intend to take a QB in the draft. But I would be surprised if they reach for Mariota. Though they do pick 10th, and if Mariota falls that far, it could be interesting.

Early rumblings are that the Cowboys signing of Greg Hardy is to be met with a lot of backlash from women's groups, and even non-women's groups, the closer to the season we get. While the case was dismissed, the police report indicates he absolutely beat his ex-girlfriend, and harshly abused her verbally as well. The case was thrown out when she wouldn't testify, and a civil suit was then settled. Meaning, she was paid off. Sad, really. The smartest thing Hardy could do for now is keep his trap shut, and just quietly show up to practice and leave his work on the field. There was talk about the contract being $11m, but it's very favorable to the team and not a single dollar of it is guaranteed. So it's not a risk on the field for them, only off. Hardy is a sack machine, who can also move laterally very well, and even drop into short coverage, and across the whole field. The Cowboys lost some players, so he "helps" it's going to be interesting to see what they do in the draft. Will they now pursue Adrien Peterson? Still expect them to probably finish first in that division.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Hey Foxxy, some great news for you! The NFL is looking to play a regular season game in Germany

That would be cool. Ofc I would pay 100 Euros (or more) to get seats at/near the 50yL... This would be the day I could flush my direct-NFL-boycott down the toilet. That happens to addicts. Most of them get recidivate
And to make matters worse: Imagine the NYG and their 20-Mio-$ guy plays. That would make the irony complete.

Some grumpy people are wondering why the NFL doesn't play some games in cities that could use a team, like Los Angeles, San Antonio, Portland, Oklahoma City, etc. And that's a good question

A very good question... The AFL (as far as I understand it as still "bloody rookie") for example plays regular season games in cities that dont have AFL teams. May "leftoverPie" knows more...
I mean if NFL plays overseas, why not in the "home-country-away"?

Richie Incognito, has been signed by the Bills.

I know I am in the minority, but I like that news. I still think he was a scapegoat, sacrificed and ratted by a team-mate who cried out loud. Wish him well...

The Rams have indicated they intend to take a QB in the draft.

That would give Hitch & Kelly some good arguments...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Jonathan Martin didn't last long in FA and was picked up by the Panthers.

Regarding Incognito, I have to be honest and say I'm glad he's getting another shot. What he and a few others did to Martin was over the top, and he seems very intense, but he also severed his suspension, and Rex Ryan met with him and said he had a good conversation with Richie. I think Rex is the exact right coach for him too. It's terrible to compare negatives, but compared to all the wife beaters, child beaters, drug dealers and dog killers out there, not to mention murderers like Hernandez, what Incognito did wrong is tame.

Like it or not, the Packers scored big by re-signing Letroy Guion. He's their DT who was recently busted with a LOT of weed and guns in his car. But he plead out. This allowed the Packers to sign him at a one-year, cheapo deal.

Apparently Sam Bradford was ready to actually retire, before Josh Heupel encouraged him to give it one more shot. Sam has to feel like the luckiest player on the planet now. It's still just baffling to me.

Washington is hosting Marcus Mariota for a Pro day. This is interesting because they just said they are committed to RG3. They also have what I think is the backup QB with the very most potential in the NFL in Cousins. I see no way Mariota would or should start above either. So why on earth would they draft him? Unless they expect to deal RG3 (or Cousins) and groom Marita for 2016 or beyond? Makes no sense. Then again, not much Dan Snyder does makes sense when it comes to football.

Rodney Harrison was openly critical of the Jets offense, and Geno Smith, saying they may win 5 games this year. I hate to say it, but he might be right. I worry that Geno, while being a good if not great player, may never live up to his full potential, playing on too many poor, messed up teams.

Michael Sam was at the vets combine, and looked a little more lean, but was actually slightly slower in his 40 than a year ago, which was still one of the fastest actually at the vets combine. He's going to get invited to camp somewhere. He also made a comment today that he's not the only gay player in the NFL, and a few reached out to him. We already knew this from what Deion said, it was obvious. But Sam also said they could use more courage to speak out. So another player who wasn't named, but bisexual, stated that "Sam doesn't speak for all of us." Both validating and criticizing his statement. This player also said he felt several GM's and managers in the NFL were not very open to LGBT players, so they stay in the closet. But he also felt Sam is getting a fair shot, but last year didn't make the best of it on the field. An interesting comment, to be sure.

Finally, Russell Wilson has been training, spring training that is, with the Texas Rangers. Will he play in the MLB? Not likely at all. But he's been working out with the team, taking fielding and batting practice. He's apparently very popular in the clubhouse. No surprise there.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I ask again, since you mocked me and Kelly as the only ones "in the world" who rate Bradford above Foles, I ask who are all these people who rate Foles higher. You can't come up with an answer, not posting is a better course of action than telling me to shut up.

Hitch, as Alpe pointed out earlier, you’ll have a hard time finding any sportswriter who thinks giving up Foles for Bradford was a good idea.

That's not the discussion i am having with foxxy though is it. Its about who is better Foles vs Bradford period, not who got the better end of the trade with the money and draft picks taken into account.

He said I and Chip were the only people who rate Bradford above Foles.

So you, as everybody else, know that you and Kelly are basically the only ones in the world thinking Bradford is the "better quarterback".

That's the discussion I am having. I know very well that everyone thinks it was a bad trade, even I never said that it was a good trade.

But that's not what foxxy claims. He claims Foles is a vastly superior qb and that everyone apart from Chip Kelly shares his opinion.

So now its time for him to back that up.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

But the league did approve the rule forcing players declaring ineligible must go to the tackle box (call it the anti-Belicheck rule).

Not really. He has already used the trick. It got him past Baltimore and into the Superbowl and he won the ring. He has no more need for it. Its no more anti Bellichick than anyone else.

Similarly a change to the catch rule wouldn't be pro Cowboys, since they already lost the game, and in the future, they are just as likely to be on the other side of the coin.

But its really disapointing the league rejected the challenge rule. At the moment games are about 50% talent 50% what random choices the referees make.

But controversy creates cash and I suspect that's the reason why organizations like NFL don't want to make the game more "fair", and let the better teams win. The press it gets from the controversy everytime the refs blow it, is far too valuable.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Some grumpy people are wondering why the NFL doesn't play some games in cities that could use a team, like Los Angeles, San Antonio, Portland, Oklahoma City, etc. And that's a good question

A very good question... The AFL (as far as I understand it as still "bloody rookie") for example plays regular season games in cities that dont have AFL teams. May "leftoverPie" knows more...
I mean if NFL plays overseas, why not in the "home-country-away"?

Because the whole point of playing overseas is to expand the market. Playing in London gets the NFL billions worth of free publicity, in the UK and in Europe, thereby creating more fans in Europe, where they can sell more merchandise, tv rights etc.

Playing in San Antonio or Portland wouldn't really accomplish anything.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Actually Hitch, I would argue that the NFL is one of the most aggressive sports as far as attempts to change rules to make the game more fair. Take a look at how long it took MLB to allow coaches challenges for replay? Or how the NCAA doesn't have a rule for officials reviews, as witnessed by that terrible goal tending call in the SMU-UCLA game.

As to Bradford vs. Foles - straight up. Remove the pay, other picks, etc. I think you'd then have to make the jump and also say both at 100% health. Then how do they compare? I'm going to still say Foles, for the reasons we listed. But it also narrows the debate. It's not like we're comparing Tom Brady to Eli Manning... Actually, some do. And that's why I mention these two. There are plenty of people in NY who will tell you all kinds of factoids about Eli and why he's as good if not better than Brady.

Sticking with the Eagles, it looks like they are going to add Miles Austin to their lineup. This is interesting as this is the third fairly big name Chip is adding who is coming off rather major injury, behind Bradford and Kiko Alonso. I did not realize the Eagles actually released Trent Cole, who has since signed with Indianapolis.

in rather stunning news, the NFL discovered the Falcons had been piping in crowd noise through the stadium speakers, and fined them $350,000 and a 2016 Draft, plus resident Rich McKay will also be suspended for at least three months from the Competition Committee beginning April 1. Roddy White, who came up with the idea, was already fired by the team before this announcement. This inevitably brings up Seattle, who has been accused of this trick. Having been to several Seahawk games, I have to admit my curiosity was up one game when I sat next to a row of speakers just above me. I actually listened a few times very closely. What did I hear? Zip. Nothing but PA announcements.

Meanwhile, the NFL has suspended Cleveland GM Ray Farmer for four games. He was sending scouting texts to the sidelines during games. While this may seem trivial, it is none the less against the rules. They won't be stripped of a draft pick, like some thought.

Adrien Peterson and his group rejected a meeting with the Vikings, where they reportedly wanted him to take a pay cut. There's some talk he may land in Arizona, which would be interesting. There has also been talk about Dallas. And Deroit. But insiders there say they will look to the draft. What the guy did still seems pretty toxic, so it's hard to say what's going to happen.

And not a sniff of interest by any team in Ray Rice. I'm wondering if his career is over. Personally, I wouldn't sign him. I wouldn't want wife beaters on my team. But part of the reason also is I mostly agree with Foxxy that RB's are plug-n-play, with the OL doing 90% of the work.

Speaking of RB's, the 49ers are saying they expect Reggie Bush to be an every down back. Hmmm. If you look at the offense Harbaugh built, it was a lot of power. Can they change their offensive stripes overnight? Reggie isn't really a power back, at all. He's great on the outside, and an excellent receiver. Gore was also one of the best blocking backs in the NFL, and I don't know Reggie can step into those shoes either. Still think a lot of the 49ers success is going to ride on Kaepernick, and I'm really not sure he has the ability to carry them like that.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Regarding Incognito, I have to be honest and say I'm glad he's getting another shot. What he and a few others did to Martin was over the top, and he seems very intense, but he also severed his suspension, and Rex Ryan met with him and said he had a good conversation with Richie. I think Rex is the exact right coach for him too. It's terrible to compare negatives, but compared to all the wife beaters, child beaters, drug dealers and dog killers out there, not to mention murderers like Hernandez, what Incognito did wrong is tame.
...
Sam (Bradford) has to feel like the luckiest player on the planet now. It's still just baffling to me.

Couldnt agree more...

Makes no sense. Then again, not much Dan Snyder does makes sense when it comes to football.

Snyder is the Tinkov of football, or Tinkov the Snyder of cycling... How did they got rich with their mish-mash "strategies"? Cant be intelligence. Thus must be pure & brute violence, bribing, blackmailing, and worse.

But (Michael) Sam also said they could use more courage to speak out.

How comes those LBTG guys always need to be center-stage? They are still a minority (even though pc wants to brainwash us, telling it the other way around)... As u know I am ok with them, but its nerving how some of them act. Its about football, so no player has to speak out if he likes to enter the center in leather from behind, or loves bath-houses, dark-rooms, and wat else in his privacy.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

I ask again, since you mocked me and Kelly as the only ones "in the world" who rate Bradford above Foles, I ask who are all these people who rate Foles higher. You can't come up with an answer, not posting is a better course of action than telling me to shut up.

Hitch, as Alpe pointed out earlier, you’ll have a hard time finding any sportswriter who thinks giving up Foles for Bradford was a good idea.

That's not the discussion i am having with foxxy though is it. Its about who is better Foles vs Bradford period, not who got the better end of the trade with the money and draft picks taken into account.

He said I and Chip were the only people who rate Bradford above Foles.

So you, as everybody else, know that you and Kelly are basically the only ones in the world thinking Bradford is the "better quarterback".

That's the discussion I am having. I know very well that everyone thinks it was a bad trade, even I never said that it was a good trade.

But that's not what foxxy claims. He claims Foles is a vastly superior qb and that everyone apart from Chip Kelly shares his opinion.

So now its time for him to back that up.

I think (since you also got it wrong in the Sky, or was it Froome thread?) we need to clarify the concept of what basically means. The translator tells me:
"ba·si·cal·ly
(bā′sĭ-kə-lē, -klē)
adv.
1. In a basic way; fundamentally or essentially: Throughout the ordeal, he remained basically the same.
2. For the most part; chiefly: They basically do what they are supposed to."

That is what I mean. Simply basically. But not everybody outside of Hitch & Kelly.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

At the moment games are about 50% talent 50% what random choices the referees make.

Sorry, but I have to say BS. A field full of refs, umps, replay officials and what else makes the NFL the best officiated game I know. And it reduces the chance of game-fixing (you need to buy the whole crew; and ofc you cant do anything against bribe influenced players)...

It´s more like 50% talent, and 50% random chance (especially since random turnovers* have such a big impact on game outcomes). Brian Burke did great studies on the subject...
* Side-Note: As I said before; Late game desperation Ints & Sack-Fumble-chances are not random.

But controversy creates cash and I suspect that's the reason why organizations like NFL don't want to make the game more "fair", and let the better teams win. The press it gets from the controversy everytime the refs blow it, is far too valuable.

No.
Dont confuse football with soccer fans. I know zero US fans that like to discuss refs. Most of the time its about NFL gossip, plays, players, play-calling... at least thats how I experience football with US citizens.

What generates the NFL cash are star players, and a good show. Not ref controversy. BTW, one reason the ref strike was ended in a hurry when things got out of hand...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

Because the whole point of playing overseas is to expand the market. Playing in London gets the NFL billions worth of free publicity, in the UK and in Europe, thereby creating more fans in Europe, where they can sell more merchandise, tv rights etc.

Playing in San Antonio or Portland wouldn't really accomplish anything.

Really? If it generates so much cash & publicity, why did they stop NFL Europe? Stadiums in Germany averaged over 20.000 per game. It made the top 10 world wide. And still the NFL stopped its losing business.
The shut-down of NFL europe did cost more fans & publicity in Europe than the 20.000 extra fans they gained by shipping them into Wembley.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

Actually Hitch, I would argue that the NFL is one of the most aggressive sports as far as attempts to change rules to make the game more fair.

Absolutely.

As to Bradford vs. Foles - straight up. Remove the pay, other picks, etc. I think you'd then have to make the jump and also say both at 100% health. Then how do they compare?

I did already:
We have hard facts about arm strength (advantage Foles).
And we have "soft" facts like Y/PP & drive stats (advantage Foles). Soft because they are heavily influenced by the talent around them. So the better way would be to compare QB numbers inside the teams (Bradford vs back-ups, Foles vs back-ups). Still it would be "noisy" numbers because of sample size (but still much better than crap numbers like Cmp-Pct, W-L-Records, etc)... Either way, if I find time I´ll do it in the off-season. But I am more busy now, since I added the AFL to my "cant miss" assortment.

in rather stunning news, the NFL discovered the Falcons had been piping in crowd noise through the stadium speakers, and fined them $350,000 and a 2016 Draft, plus resident Rich McKay will also be suspended for at least three months from the Competition Committee beginning April 1. Roddy White, who came up with the idea, was already fired by the team before this announcement. This inevitably brings up Seattle, who has been accused of this trick. Having been to several Seahawk games, I have to admit my curiosity was up one game when I sat next to a row of speakers just above me. I actually listened a few times very closely. What did I hear? Zip. Nothing but PA announcements.

Meanwhile, the NFL has suspended Cleveland GM Ray Farmer for four games. He was sending scouting texts to the sidelines during games. While this may seem trivial, it is none the less against the rules. They won't be stripped of a draft pick, like some thought.

There is no cheating ways that are not used, right? It should be clear by now (if not already) that Beli-Cheat isnt the lone bad apple. Did I mention the incident of NY? That they opened stadium gates when the opponent kicker aimed for FGs?

But part of the reason also is I mostly agree with Foxxy that RB's are plug-n-play, with the OL doing 90% of the work.

Amen.

This is the "law":
Walter Payton.
Timmy Smith.
Denver RBs in the TD era.
The Hogs.
Thats all you need to know about RBs making the difference... or not.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Because the whole point of playing overseas is to expand the market. Playing in London gets the NFL billions worth of free publicity, in the UK and in Europe, thereby creating more fans in Europe, where they can sell more merchandise, tv rights etc.

Playing in San Antonio or Portland wouldn't really accomplish anything.

Really? If it generates so much cash & publicity, why did they stop NFL Europe? Stadiums in Germany averaged over 20.000 per game. It made the top 10 world wide. And still the NFL stopped its losing business.
The shut-down of NFL europe did cost more fans & publicity in Europe than the 20.000 extra fans they gained by shipping them into Wembley.

I don't see what NFL Europe has to do with anything, but if you want to make the comparison, then I would point out that when the NFL comes to London, its the NFL. Not a feeder league of guys trying to make it, but the actual best of the best, NFL. Guys like Calvin Johnson, Tom Brady, Tony Romo came to London.

Frankfurt Galaxy averaged 20 000 people. Well you know how many people the NFL International Series gets each time in London? 80 000. That alone should tell you the International Series is worth more than NFL Europe was and explain why NFL goes to London.
The attraction of the NFL is that it is the best biggest baddest hardest hitting guys, playing in the biggest stadiums.

Same thing when Real Madrid and Manchester United go to the United States to play an exhibition match they sell out every game and get up to 100 000 fans for a game, whereas the MLS teams there struggle to get to 20 000.

The shut-down of NFL europe did cost more fans & publicity in Europe than the 20.000 extra fans they gained by shipping them into Wembley

Be pissy all you want. The fact is that when the NFL first played in London it was supposed to be a short term thing, and since then they have continued to expand, now play 3 games a season here, have committed to do that for at least another 2 years, which will make it a decade, and are in talks to expand that further.

I think that alone should tell you the NFL considers the International Series to be a success.

BTW when the NFL comes here they don't just play the game. The players do interviews for the newspapers, for tv. The teams endorse local projects. They get the NFL brand out there every which way. Millions and millions in absolutely free publicity.

A success in every single way.

Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't mean that it isn't.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

But controversy creates cash and I suspect that's the reason why organizations like NFL don't want to make the game more "fair", and let the better teams win. The press it gets from the controversy everytime the refs blow it, is far too valuable.

No.
Dont confuse football with soccer fans. I know zero US fans that like to discuss refs. Most of the time its about NFL gossip, plays, players, play-calling... at least thats how I experience football with US citizens.

I don't care what your friends tell you, I am talking about Business, something you don't seem to understand. Business for the NFL is having its name out there in the news all the time. Controversy creates articles and tv time creates interest. People who didn't watch the game rush on to NFL.com and affiliated websites to see what happened. They go to sports websites to read opinions about it. They hashtag it on twitter.

Eg the Dez Bryant catch. The ESPN treated that incident as if the President had just been asssasinated and droned on about it for a week. Same with the no call vs Detroit a week earlier. People tweeted about it. Sports journos wrote articles about it then wrote more articles about it.

All of that is publicity for the NFL.

You have some bizzare romanticised view of US sports fans. They are the same as any fans. When controversy happens they go on social media to talk about it and go onto mainstream media to read/hear more about it.
That creates profit for the NFL.

Economics 101 really.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re: Re:

First up @cyclingnews & may Alpe who could bring it up to the software guys (didnt got replies when I complained in the "about-forum-thread"):
Arrggg... It takes hours to write a single post. First getting rid of quotes, multi-quotes, quota-quota-mish-mash- quotes, and then 5 urls only (meaning to have written for nothing in first try).
But the true multi-quotes are gone. Heck its gotten so bad. No more fun at all. Unreadable, un-postable...

I don't see what NFL Europe has to do with anything,

Well... how about that: NFL Europe?

but if you want to make the comparison, then I would point out that when the NFL comes to London, its the NFL. Not a feeder league of guys trying to make it, but the actual best of the best, NFL. Guys like Calvin Johnson, Tom Brady, Tony Romo came to London.

Sure... but dont go cherry picking all the way: Teams arent interested to waste a home game overseas. Thus you got crap like Jax, Mia, Rams, Cards, Bucs, etc in their down years.

Frankfurt Galaxy averaged 20 000 people. Well you know how many people the NFL International Series gets each time in London? 80 000. That alone should tell you the International Series is worth more than NFL Europe was and explain why NFL goes to London.
The attraction of the NFL is that it is the best biggest baddest hardest hitting guys, playing in the biggest stadiums.

Yes 80.000 Englishman in London for 600,714 over Europe, especially Germany (BTW, league Avg was 20.000+, Galaxy was around 30.000). Great exchange.
Ofc NFL headquarters know they did a mistake by pointing the middle finger to Germany. They´ll come back as Alpe hinted. Will they heal all (ex-)fans. They got me, sure. But its a long way to get the reputation back they had here. Newspapers wrote about it. Free-TV showed it. It was a great foundation... and thus a bad business decision to stop it.
Now NFL profits for a single game overseas. No doubt (but they would also profit doing it in LA or Portland, whatever)...
But what if a NFL team is based in London? Rhetorical. You hear it here first:
If NFL does it, and again get nervous like with the NFL Europe, they will fail. 100%. England Monarchs Part II.
Imagine a 2-14 record in the first season... Attendance? 10.000 at best...

Every big league can fill a stadium overseas in a show-case event (Berlin had 70.000 for pre season games. Just FYI), but the though task is to do it regulary.

Same thing when Real Madrid and Manchester United go to the United States to play an exhibition match they sell out every game and get up to 100 000 fans for a game, whereas the MLS teams there struggle to get to 20 000.

See my last chapter.

Be pissy all you want.

Where I am/was? Just facts baby, facts.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Part II of formerly easy one post. Still pissed at those who spoiled the once great forum...

BTW when the NFL comes here they don't just play the game. The players do interviews for the newspapers, for tv. The teams endorse local projects. They get the NFL brand out there every which way. Millions and millions in absolutely free publicity.

Same happened here. With the pre season games in the 80s/90s.

Another side-note anecdote @ Alpe & Co; We (members & friends of our Baseball team) got drunk on game-day (Vikings-Bills), and lost any shyness that might have been there ... One of our guys got wind of the hotel side where the Vikings stay. The hotel was the famous 5-Star-Schweizer-Hof. A friend pretented to work for a university newspaper, and I had my Vid-cam with me (you know, BigMc-Fan had to film not only this event, but even the in-week public-training sessions too ... I had my doubts not only to get to the hotel, but to even enter it, leave alone to get to speak to players. But friend did just ask some team-official if we could get in, and if McMahon would give interview. Staff-guy said no, but has John Gerak available. So friend interviewed Gerak, while I filmed. Then McMahon came down, said hello, gave autographs to us... Man was he ... short. From that day on I wondered how he could see the field with OL men in front of him and only one intact eye... Sounds all a little fanboyish, but was something to never forget. Getting in a hotel full of players and staff drunk. Unthinkable for our young generation nowadays, with all the police-state intstruments at work, and players protected by bodyguards like a 3rd world dictators...
Those were the great times back then. A different world. Only two decades ago. Imagine!

The fact is that when the NFL first played in London it was supposed to be a short term thing, and since then they have continued to expand, now play 3 games a season here, have committed to do that for at least another 2 years, which will make it a decade, and are in talks to expand that further.

I think that alone should tell you the NFL considers the International Series to be a success.

See my comments above.

A success in every single way.

Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't mean that it isn't.

Where I said that?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Part III and "economics 101" will follow tomorrow. Takes to much time to post a well designed and easy to read post. Thanks @cycnews for sending the e-mail "we improved" our forum. Yes sure, and the spam bots are gone. Great work.

 

[The Hitch]

Well I agree with you that a team in London would be stupid and they would lose. Won't happen though, logistics impossible. And I would love to see NFL Europe again.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Quick reply:
Pretty cool to share the same POV at least once in a hundred times ;-)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I've posted in the About forum I think 4 times about multi-quoting. I'll try again and see if I get a response.

As to NFL games in Europe vs. NFL Europe, I think that's a false choice. It's not either/or. I also agree that if Jacksonville moved to London, they would flop. It would be as bad as it is in Jacksonville, half empty stands, especially if the team had a losing record. What the NFL is doing right now makes the most sense. Keep playing some games in London around the bye-week, and expand the same to Germany and Mexico (and maybe Canada, Brazil). I know players don't really like it, but it's easier on them than the Thursday night game, and they have that every single week.

As to NFL fans, while they do talk about controversy, I think it's a mistake to say they relish in it, or it helps sell anything. I completely disagree with that. Well played, well officiated games sell just as many tickets and merchandise without any controversy at all. Deflategate didn't sell the Superbowl, in fact, almost everyone I know, and most of the blogosphere felt it distracted from what was otherwise a great match-up of two superb teams. And that's what the game turned out to be. The best SB ever in my opinion. Had there been a blown call at the end, fans would have talked about it, of course, but no more or less than they did about Carrol's questionable call, and Butler's fantastic play. There is already enough drama, and amazing physical feats in the NFL to wow us. I think I can speak for 99% of NFL fans in saying we're happy with the way the game ended, with a properly officiated game.