National Football League

[52520Andrew]

Eagles getting killed

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Never understood this whole Kaep will play for Chip Kelly next season. It's superficiel analysis that doesn't go further than Kaep is a running QB, Chip once had a running QB.

Look at the QB's Chip brought in: Barkley, Sanchize, Bradford. Not running QB's at all.

And looking at it from Kaepernicks perspective: he was succesfull in San Fran in a slow grind it out power running scheme that lined up and ran it down the opponents throat. Exactly the opposite of what the Eagles do.

Maybe its because Chip has said that he would like to work with Kaep? Chip made his name by having option QBs who could stack up as many yards as the RBs and still throw a good ball too. Kaep was successful because he was part of the SF run threat plus he could toss a few good balls from the pocket and even more out of it. Its important to point out that you left Vick out which is what Chip really wanted, but MV is past his prime.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

My take is that kind of football works a lot better in college than the NFL.

Eagles just dismal. Worst Thanksgiving game since Jeff Fishers Titans blew out the 0-16 Lion team. It's like the Eagles gave up on Kelly. This wasn't Bradford not being there, the whole team was awful.

 

[Merckx index]

It's looking more and more like the only question about Kelly is, will he take the USC job or go to LSU? I don't know if he will be fired after this season--I really think you have to give him more than one year with roster control--but he may decide to leave on his own. It would be a good time in the sense of the HC opportunities available at the college level right now.

Is it possible that Manning has played his last down? He probably won't be healthy until near the end of the season. If Osweiller, who appears more comfortable in Kubiak's offense, performs reasonably well, are they going to change things just before the postseason? At this point, there is a very realistic possibility that Denver plays NE in the championship game (they almost definitely will not play them any sooner in the postseason). This would be I think the fourth time Brady and Manning have met in that situation. Imagine if Manning has to watch the game from the bench. Then imagine if Denver wins, and goes on to win the SB with Manning on the bench. How hard would that be to take? He gets his second SB ring, but it doesn't really count. Would he really get much more pleasure from that than from playing and losing again?

Or maybe he comes in late in the game in a losing cause, a la Unitas in SB3. No matter how you look at it, it's hard to see Manning finishing his career in anything but disappointing fashion.

Anyone think Carolina isn't for real? They picked off Romo three times, two for TDs. Then Romo went down with another injury. Looks like the Giants have a pretty easy path to the division win, unless Amster's team can somehow pull it off.

The Panthers have two games vs. Atlanta left, plus TB, NO, and the Giants. Only Atlanta has a winning record, and right now they may be the poorest team of that bunch.

 

[movingtarget]

This year Kaep has been totally out of form and I don't think a different coach would have changed that. He has had three types of passes all year. Throw it at someones feet, throw it over their head or throw it to the opposition when two of your team mates are standing free on the other side of the field ! Gabbert is a definite improvement so far but if the team keeps losing, being an improvement may not be enough to hold the spot. I think the Panthers should not be underestimated and I have liked what I have seen of the Cardinals as well. Kansas vs the Bills could be an interesting game this week also the Patriots/Broncos game and the Seahawks/Steelers should also be good.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

It's looking more and more like the only question about Kelly is, will he take the USC job or go to LSU? I don't know if he will be fired after this season--I really think you have to give him more than one year with roster control--but he may decide to leave on his own. It would be a good time in the sense of the HC opportunities available at the college level right now.

Is it possible that Manning has played his last down? He probably won't be healthy until near the end of the season. If Osweiller, who appears more comfortable in Kubiak's offense, performs reasonably well, are they going to change things just before the postseason? At this point, there is a very realistic possibility that Denver plays NE in the championship game (they almost definitely will not play them any sooner in the postseason). This would be I think the fourth time Brady and Manning have met in that situation. Imagine if Manning has to watch the game from the bench. Then imagine if Denver wins, and goes on to win the SB with Manning on the bench. How hard would that be to take? He gets his second SB ring, but it doesn't really count. Would he really get much more pleasure from that than from playing and losing again?

Or maybe he comes in late in the game in a losing cause, a la Unitas in SB3. No matter how you look at it, it's hard to see Manning finishing his career in anything but disappointing fashion.

Anyone think Carolina isn't for real? They picked off Romo three times, two for TDs. Then Romo went down with another injury. Looks like the Giants have a pretty easy path to the division win, unless Amster's team can somehow pull it off.

The Panthers have two games vs. Atlanta left, plus TB, NO, and the Giants. Only Atlanta has a winning record, and right now they may be the poorest team of that bunch.

RE: P. Manning: This isn't the way he dreamed about ending his career for sure. Its tough for him and his fans. What happens next depends on his injury, and how well Os plays. Peyton may not be able to play so no discussion. Peyton is able to play (@80%), but Os is playing great so stay with Os. Peyton is able to play (@80%), and Os is struggling so Peyton is back in. Peyton, and Os can't play so Ponder leads the team to a SB victory (sorry, I had to toss that one in there.

The Panthers are tough!

Packers look like poo! Eagles look like poo X 100000.

Great to see #4 get retired last night (with Starr in attendance).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

But that was yet another dirty loss for the Packers. It's like Rodgers is not in sync with his receivers. I realize Jordy Nelson is out, but it's week 11. Maddening for their fans.

Well, Romo is done. It's official that he re-fractured his clavicle. And that's going to bring up a lot of questions. Even last night the announcers noted he said if he had been asked to come back sooner, he didn't think he could have done it. Was that a clue to the medical staff? Well, he did get past Miami, and got hit that game. I hate to say this, but while Tony hasn't has many concussions, he's been so banged up you have to wonder how much he can take, how much is left in the tank, and when Dallas starts to think about the future?

I too am now am a real believer in the Panthers. Tony Dungee said he thought they would go 16-0. While inter-divisional games can always surprise, the team I think that can beat them is the Giants. It's possible they will have something to play for then (three weeks), and it's in New York. There is no doubt the pressure that's been somewhat masked up to this point partly because of the Patriots dominance, is going to start to build. The Pats are just banged up, are down to 2 receivers (can you name them? Can anyone? One went undrafted) and eeked out a couple wins. But the Panthers look like a juggernaut and have to now be #1 in power rankings, and the talk of "unbeaten" will focus on them. The Giants, with wise old man Coughlin, and a lot of experience, are perfect to take them out. Now, I've been burned by picking the Giants before, but their OL has been solid, their entire team has been solid, Eli has played his best in Bob McAdoo's system, and they lost 3 games they could have won. They play @WAS, NYJ, @MIA, Dolphins, vs CAR, @MIN, PHI.

I'm still sort of hoping both NE and Carolina go 16-0 and meet in the Superbowl. Imagine that.

I commented on Manning before. I have to think if Osweiller plays well, even if the lose to New England, he's their guy.

As to Chip Kelly, if he really feels his players have given up on him (and maybe they have), now would be the time to start looking for coaching jobs, and sunny Los Angeles, with a team with a lot of history, in a conference he knows, is all but a perfect fit. Jimmy Johnson said that college was so much more forgiving than the NFL, where there is 1 team than wins, that's it. In college you can find many things to hang your hat on, and positive change and optimism happens more quickly (recruiting, players often play 2-4 years, that's it).

Best games this weekend are Vikings @ Atlanta, NYG @ Washington, Bills @ KC, Pittsburgh @ Seattle, and NE @ Denver. I'll make some picks probably tomorrow.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

The interesting thing about that is that McFadden is more of a run between the tackles RB, but they don't really use him that way. Also, Bradford is anything but a running QB. He's a quick read QB. One of the knocks on Kaep is that he doesn't go through progressions well. The anti-Brady (or anti-Bradford) if you will. So both he, and somewhat Chip would have to adapt if he went there. Plus, Chip has said he likes to have two QBs capable of starting. Presuming he keeps Bradford, and Sam had finally been playing well until hurt, Kaep isn't the same kind of QB, even if he's a better athlete than Sanchez.

I have to say I've never really bought into the running QB in the NFL. They all seem to have electric moments, but never last playing that way. The best "running" QBs in recent times have been Newton, who has done far more damage with his arm, and Wilson, who doesn't run as much as he keep plays alive. The whole idea that the read-option was nearly impossible to defend has been mostly proven wrong, and the QBs that tried it most the last few years (and used the QB run as part of the option), RG3 and Kaep have fallen quite far. I always thought RG3 could make it big in the NFL though because he does have a strong arm and did show deep field and outside accuracy, but once his knee blew out, and he needed to adapt into a Romo-like QB who could use his legs to not run but just keep plays alive, he never seemed to adapt, and I think ego has something to do with that. As to Kaep, it's hard to say what he thinks, if he thinks he can still run, or because he has a very strong arm he can throw anywhere. But obviously both are untrue, at least for right now. Is Chip Kelly the guy who can change that? Turn him into the next Big Ben, who uses his size and feet to keep plays alive? I honestly don't know.

The threat to run is of some value because it will likely hold a LB. The big value is less that they might run for 100 yards, but more that they scramble well/extend plays (just stepping up in the pocket doesn't count). You already gave the best two examples of that in the NFL: Cam Newton and Russell Wilson. If Drew Brees wasn't mobile, we would have never heard of him. The reason a pure running QB doesn't do as well in the NFL as in the NCAA is because there are at least six guys on the other side of the ball who are just as fast in the NFL instead of one or two in the NCAA.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Never understood this whole Kaep will play for Chip Kelly next season. It's superficiel analysis.

Is there any other type of analysis in sport?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Here are some bold predictions for this week. Again, I won't pick every game.

NYG@WAS - Both teams have played better than their records this year, at times. The Giants have played good Washington tough in recent years, but Eli hasn't, and I'll take the Giants, even though the Skins, and Cousins have played well of late. I still think New York is one of the few NFC teams that could upend Carolina.

STL@CIN - With the Bengals losing two in a row after starting unbeaten, one might think they could lose, but I'd take them big. Foles back starting for StL.

TB@IND - Did you know the Colts are unbeaten with Matt Hassleback under center? TB has been solid of late, but I'll stick with the Colts.

MIN@ATL - This is the bounce back game for the Vikings and on the road helps I think. The Falcons are just maddening to watch. They still hold the wild card spot, but blew a stretch of "easy" games, and now things get hard. @TB, @CAR, @JAX, CAR, NO.

SD@JAX - Did you know that after the Jaguars win this game, they'll be 5-6, and could be in first if Indy and Houston lose? Even if both win, Jax is on the cusp of the playoffs.

BUF@KC - One would think Rex will draw up a game plan to stop the Chiefs from throwing short, but KC has been red hot of late, and could win by blowout.

PITT@SEA - With Ben back, and Lynch out, and both teams in need of a win this game should be well worth watching. One might expect a shootout, but I don't, though I like Seattle in a close one as their defense steps up. I still think no one is going to want to play Seattle in the playoffs.

NE@DEN - With Amendola out, the Broncos will double up Gronk, and I'm not sure who Brady is going to throw to. However, James White has stepped up nicely at RB, and Blount is tough enough that the Pats could run for 150 yards. But the Pats are also thin at tackle, LB, and have been squeezing out wins. They will likely contain Osweiller and make him struggle, but I don't expect a lot of points here. Brady will fight to the bitter end, but so will the Denver defense who leads the NFL in yards, YPP, sacks and a few more things.

If the season ended today, NE and Carolina would be #1 seeds, with Arizona and Cincy also getting byes. The wild card games would be KC@DEN, PIT@IND, ATL@MIN, and GB@NYG.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

Forgot games start early...

PHI @ DET
CAR @ DAL
CHI @ GB

OAK @ TEN - I always regret picking the Raiders.
BUF @ KC - Looks a home banker.
TB @ IND - Buccs just to have edge.
NYG @ WSH - - I know I'll regret this, but I'm picking them.
NO @ HOU - Saints D is non-existent.
MIN @ ATL - Lost faith in these Falcons.
STL @ CIN - Looks a home banker.
SD @ JAX - Strange times when Jax looks nailed on.
MIA @ NYJ - Lost faith with these Fins too.
ARI @ SF - Away banker.
PIT @ SEA - Could be really close, Hawks have been lucky to be at 5-5.
NE @ DEN - They could lose, but I don't think so.
BAL @ CLE - Worst Mon. night game ever? Sad that the Browns look a banker.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Never understood this whole Kaep will play for Chip Kelly next season. It's superficiel analysis.

Is there any other type of analysis in sport?

I agree with Billie. Problem is, the pundits don't know the game well enough and are driven by pressure to produce, and so come up with all sorts of stirring-the-pot crap.

The other type of analysis that's more intriguing is game-play analysis. Here's a good example of that type from the last NFL game that I paid attention to (Cincy @ Ariz): 1st quarter, no scores, CIN has the ball 3rd and goal at the Ariz 3, Ariz lines up TE Eifert strong right, Dalton (alias Red Ryder BB gun) starts calling signals and in the middle of that Eifert splits out wide right. No other WRs on right side. Ariz splits the CB out over Eifert. At that moment Cincy had created a mismatch of Eifert against one-on-one coverage with the CB... advantage Cincy. Eifert's out route to the right pylon and a dart by Dalton (also alias Red Rocket) resulted in TD Cincy. That was a great play call by Cincy. We often hear about this kind of analysis, but don't get to read that kind of analysis nearly as often.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Re:

Never understood this whole Kaep will play for Chip Kelly next season. It's superficiel analysis.

Is there any other type of analysis in sport?

I agree with Billie. Problem is, the pundits don't know the game well enough and are driven by pressure to produce, and so come up with all sorts of stirring-the-pot crap.

The other type of analysis that's more intriguing is game-play analysis. Here's a good example of that type from the last NFL game that I paid attention to (Cincy @ Ariz): 1st quarter, no scores, CIN has the ball 3rd and goal at the Ariz 3, Ariz lines up TE Eifert strong right, Dalton (alias Red Ryder BB gun) starts calling signals and in the middle of that Eifert splits out wide right. No other WRs on right side. Ariz splits the CB out over Eifert. At that moment Cincy had created a mismatch of Eifert against one-on-one coverage with the CB... advantage Cincy. Eifert's out route to the right pylon and a dart by Dalton (also alias Red Rocket) resulted in TD Cincy. That was a great play call by Cincy. We often hear about this kind of analysis, but don't get to read that kind of analysis nearly as often.

Media only cares about clicks these days and articles like that don't get as many clicks as the ones about what Manziel is doing today. I hate it too but I try to avoid the dumb articles. And it isn't just sports either.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Spectacular catch for TD by Odell Beckham, NYG make valiant come from behind effort, but Washington closes out the game well enough for the win. AND first place in the NFC East. How about that?!

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

Spectacular catch for TD by Odell Beckham, NYG make valiant come from behind effort, but Washington closes out the game well enough for the win. AND first place in the NFC East. How about that?!

Anybody who predicted the Skins to top the division after week 12 would have been carted off to a padded room. We were in complete control until the last couple of minutes, which were a bit squeaky, but a thoroughly deserved win.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Spectacular catch for TD by Odell Beckham, NYG make valiant come from behind effort, but Washington closes out the game well enough for the win. AND first place in the NFC East. How about that?!

Anybody who predicted the Skins to top the division after week 12 would have been carted off to a padded room. We were in complete control until the last couple of minutes, which were a bit squeaky, but a thoroughly deserved win.

Love it!

 

[movingtarget]

Some game Patriots and Broncos ! Seahawks and Steelers was also very good. Seattle are on the improve.Run of wins by Kansas continues. Panthers now the only undefeated team. 49ers pushed the Cardinals surprisingly and I heard that some bad calls went the way of the Cardinals also.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Some game Patriots and Broncos ! Seahawks and Steelers was also very good. Seattle are on the improve.Run of wins by Kansas continues. Panthers now the only undefeated team. 49ers pushed the Cardinals surprisingly and I heard that some bad calls went the way of the Cardinals also.

Missed the Cards game but the other two were great games. And Raiders & Wash get nice wins. On officiating, the worst calls seem to primarily be on passing plays, specifically rulings on completions/ incompletions, possession of the ball, and control of the ball. This includes whether or not there was a fumble. So in the next off-season they need to simplify the rules on what constitutes a completion, and maybe drop language about what constitutes a football move. I don't have suggestions at the moment for how the rules should be changed, but if it looks like a completion it should be a completion.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Seattle TE Jimmy Graham lost for rest of season with torn patella tendon.
OOPS (recalling the trade for Graham).

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Seattle TE Jimmy Graham lost for rest of season with torn patella tendon.
OOPS (recalling the trade for Graham).

He was starting to look better also. Shame for Seattle but they should have Lynch back soon. With Rawls, Lynch and Lockett they have a very good running game and against the Steelers their passing game improved. The QB Wilson had a very good game.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Some game Patriots and Broncos ! Seahawks and Steelers was also very good. Seattle are on the improve.Run of wins by Kansas continues. Panthers now the only undefeated team. 49ers pushed the Cardinals surprisingly and I heard that some bad calls went the way of the Cardinals also.

Missed the Cards game but the other two were great games. And Raiders & Wash get nice wins. On officiating, the worst calls seem to primarily be on passing plays, specifically rulings on completions/ incompletions, possession of the ball, and control of the ball. This includes whether or not there was a fumble. So in the next off-season they need to simplify the rules on what constitutes a completion, and maybe drop language about what constitutes a football move. I don't have suggestions at the moment for how the rules should be changed, but if it looks like a completion it should be a completion.

I think the big call against the 49ers was for an illegal tackle. The tackler said the opposition player ducked into it. One of those line ball decisions but I have noticed that unsportsmanlike conduct and illegal tackles are very subjective as one of the 49ers players said "it's football it's supposed to be tough" but lots of big hits especially where the player is a sitting duck and the defender is already committed" do seem to get penalized. Often the player would know that if he catches the ball he knows he is going to be hit hard when he can see the defenders in his field of vision. Especially when the QB throws a long ball and the defenders have time to line up the receiver.

 

[52520Andrew]

Big win for Denver last night, I think at this point Peyton will go to the bench when healthy although the new QB effect is real and Brock will probably come back down to earth at some point. The Gronk injury could be big if serious, you might as well give the defense another person on the field if he isn't being doubled.

The catch vs. no catch rulings have gotten annoying at this point and they really need to clarify what is what come the offseason. The refs in general seem to have fallen off as well.

If I weren't a Ravens fan, I wouldn't even keep tabs on the game tonight. Guess something to watch is how the Ravens do with Schaub at the helm and potential young talent.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Early word on Gronk is okay, the injury is very likely a knee sprain and bruise, though further tests will be done today. He is likely to miss one game (against Philly) or maybe none. Donta Hightower has an MCL sprain and it's unknown how many games he will miss, could be into the playoffs. Even without them, and Amendola (and Edelman and Lewis and others), the Pats could still wipe the floor with the Eagles and run the table.

As I noted before, this loss is going to help New England, and I anticipate them running the table from here on out. All "unbeaten" pressure will not be placed on Carolina. And the Pats will spend time healing, and preparing for January.

Agree on Osweiller. The tide has turned and he's their guy. For this season at least. They didn't play great all the time, and the Pats are seriously banged up, but the Broncos had some hurt players too, and this is a great win for them heading into the late season.

Boy was I wrong on the Giants. Yeow! And just a bad performance from Eli. Though two of his 3 picks were tipped, he did not have a good game at all, and OBJ's great catch, and some great runs after the catch, helped him out a bit. But they easily could have lost by much more. Skins move into first. Wow.

The end of the Raiders game had to be tough for the Titans. A dumb (even iffy) call against their defense lead to the Raiders last TD. Then with time on the clock Mariota picked the worst possible time to throw a terrible pass.

The Jags just rolled over ugly style. Ugh. Miami did as well. But we expected that, right?

Remember everyone saying Gabbert was only a stop gap player for the 49ers, well, he looked pretty darned good to me.

I have to wonder how many of these close games the Seahawks can handle. They give up too many big plays, too many yards, too many TDs, and some heroics by Russel Wilson (against a scattered defense) won the game for them.

Once again, Matt Ryan just killed the Falcons.

Worst may have been Nick Foles, who looked just lost. Painful loss for StL. Is it too late to get Sam Bradford back?!

Really nice win for the Colts, and Matt Hasselback.

Chiefs improve to 6-5. After a rough start against the Bills down 0-10, they were solid the rest of the game, winning fairly easily.

Another nice win for the Texans. Hoyer looked good.

 

[jmdirt]

Its interesting to see some of the players that are stepping up mid season.

Officiating and the rule book needs work.

Osweiller is only going to get better as he gets more comfortable.

Seattle's D needs to step it up.

Hasselback!

Panthers!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

Some game Patriots and Broncos ! Seahawks and Steelers was also very good. Seattle are on the improve.Run of wins by Kansas continues. Panthers now the only undefeated team. 49ers pushed the Cardinals surprisingly and I heard that some bad calls went the way of the Cardinals also.

I'll bet we don't see Manning again this year, particularly if Osweiller does well at SanDiego and Oakland..

Twilight for Manning..