National Football League

[52520Andrew]

Ravens tried to give the game to the Browns but the Browns decided to give it right back. Also Matt Schaub threw another pick 6 which I find hilarious.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

What a wild finish, but a game with warts. I have to feel for McCown, repeatedly pounded, playing hurt, and now he's likely out, leaving Austin Davis as their QB, and a knucklehead on the bench. Davis made some nice throws, and some poor clock management decisions. But what a mess coming up if McCown's collar bone is broken as suspected. I personally would not want Manziel on the field for me, no matter what, if I were the coach, or a team captain, or teammate, really. The guy is a head case, likely an addict of some sort, and a manipulative liar. Never the less, I expect there to be calls from some desperate fans, and likely management hoping to sell tickets, that Manziel will start next week and his demotion was for 1 week. It was telling a little to me when Mike Tirico and Jon Gruden were talking about McCown keeping the offense going while the team waits for Manziel, as if this were his rookie season, and nothing negative had happened. Really? Why not just sign Ray Rice while they are at it?

It's baffling to me not just because of tickets, and potential, but we're told that talent trumps all. But, I have yet to see from Manziel any real NFL talent. His numbers are no better than Davis (or Connor Shaw for that matter). His fans like to say his best performance was three weeks again against Pittsburgh, but that was in a blowout loss with numbers pretty much in garbage time. Putting faith in Manziel, to me shows that the entire Cleveland Browns organization has become a dumpster fire. If Manziel starts, and plays, next week, we'll know that little to nothing has changed since management hastily fired Rob Chudzinski (or Pat Shurmer, or Eric Mangini). Heck, different owners, but this organization also fired Bill Belicheck.

I sympathize with Pettine, but most feel sorry for the Browns stalwart players, and the team's loyal fans.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I turned the BAL@CLE game off at halftime. Mistake, eh? Well, I agree Manziel is a head case. AND after benching him for not staying at the team facilities in a style reminiscent of Bill Parcells and Bellichick, who ran players off their roster for not staying at team facilities during offseason workouts, it puts the CLE staffers in a bind on what to do with him now. Do we play him after that kind of benching? Or do we stick to our disciplinary guns? I think they are going to be forced to play him. But we'll see.

But as for Manziel's talent, according to Jon Gruden, it has improved. In areas where Gruden felt Johnny has improved, Gruden added "Just watch the tape". And so the MNF network showed 3 or 4 film clips while Jon explained how he has improved his game. Surprisingly, one of the most interesting clips and points by Gruden was that of Manziel making calls in the huddle. What? That's an improvement thought I? Well, Gruden explained that at Texas A&M Manziel did not work in a huddle and did not have to verbalize anything in a huddle, that this NFL experience is new to him, and that he appears to be getting it. So, while Manziel has some maturing to do and cleaning up some off field issues, his development appears to be improving. And THAT is why the Browns just might go ahead with him no matter what. If Manziel's development has plateaued (leveled off not showing any gains) or has digressed, then the Browns decision might be different. But if a player has not plateaued, and Manziel has shown he's not, there is hope and reason to continue with him. Partly because of that development, Gruden said he likes Manziel and still thinks he can have a good NFL QB career.

Heck, it is not like he is a woman beater or something terrible like that, who the league and team's will let play. But I do wish Manziel gets his issues resolved. Better for him, better for Browns, better all around.

Meanwhile, Browns have signed QB Terrell Pryor, but I expect this will only be as an immediate backup role with future potential should something happen to the next Browns starting QB.

Speaking of digression - Chip Kelly in Philly is a good example. Things with Chip are getting chilly in Philly.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, Pryor had been trying to transcend into a TE/split end (they used to call that a flanker, in the old days!) and did good in pre-season, but was eventually cut. The thought was he'd play as a 4th receiver, and emergency back-up quarterback. Maybe that's what he'll be now. The interesting thing is, I never thought he was that bad of a QB. Maybe not a starter, but he seemed like he could make an NFL team. Same with Josh Freeman, who was overhyped after a good rookie year. I never thought much of him, but felt he could be a good back-up. But he's now completely out of the league.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Yeah, I think Pryor could fit either of those positions. Now that we know Josh is done for the season with a fractured collarbone I just assumed the Browns' interest in him was at the QB position. But maybe some of their receiving corps are injured.

I will say this about Pryor at QB, when he tried out in Seattle a couple years ago he looked promising. But Seattle also had BJ Daniels, who could play multiple positions. Seattle ended up keeping Tavares Jackson and BJ, making Pryor expendable.

 

[leftover pie]

It wouldn't surprise me to see the browns put Pryor in at QB and ask him to throw him

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Yeah, I think Pryor could fit either of those positions. Now that we know Josh is done for the season with a fractured collarbone I just assumed the Browns' interest in him was at the QB position. But maybe some of their receiving corps are injured.

I will say this about Pryor at QB, when he tried out in Seattle a couple years ago he looked promising. But Seattle also had BJ Daniels, who could play multiple positions. Seattle ended up keeping Tavares Jackson and BJ, making Pryor expendable.

Pryor is not a QB. If you can't beat out Tavares Jackson and...who the *** is BJ Daniels...you aren't going to help a team. Can't read, can't make all the throws, not accurate.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

There is no way he was going to beat out Jackson. No possible way. Jackson could arguably start for 10 teams in the NFL this coming Sunday. He just wants to play in Seattle, they treat him right, and it's a great way to head into the twilight of his career.

The hybrid back-up QB is the way of the future (and past!). Right now we already have teams like New England who have no third QB, but use Edelman as a QB (he was a running QB in college), the 1970-80s Raiders had Ray Guy as their third QB, as he had played the position before). Pryor completely fits that mold, I'm just surprised Cleveland didn't try to make it work sooner.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

There is no way he was going to beat out Jackson. No possible way. Jackson could arguably start for 10 teams in the NFL this coming Sunday. He just wants to play in Seattle, they treat him right, and it's a great way to head into the twilight of his career.

Correct for sure about Jackson's ability & inability of Pryor to best that.

@red_flanders: On BJ Daniels, I would prolly be 99.9% certain all non-seattle fans would not know who BJ is, and 90% certain that most casual Seattle fans would not know about BJ. It would take a pretty good fan to know about BJ. He has been on the Seattle practice squad for a loooooong time as a backup QB. He has similar height and weight to Russell Wilson, but is faster than Russell. So last season Seattle tried him at WR and return man, and he made the 2014 53-man roster in that new role. In the last draft Seattle drafted WR/KR Tyler Locket, who ended BJ's hold on those positions (and then some as Tyler should be in the discussion for ROY honors). BJ is a level below TJax however, but BJ and Pryor are about the same level at QB. BJ just won out in Seattle over Pryor because he played 3 positions. The knock on BJ is he did not excel at any of those three spots. The only thing preventing BJ from being a backup QB on another NFL team IMO is his size. Otherwise, he is capable. So, what I am saying is Pryor losing out to BJ in Seattle should not be considered a slap to Pryor's face. I actually hoped Seattle would have kept Pryor.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re:

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

you saying he could be as good as favre?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

you saying he could be as good as favre?

Not be as good as Favre at this time. Become as good as Favre, yes. Or at least be an excellent player after he develops. When Favre was in Atlanta even he was not the player he eventually became. It took him time to develop. Everyone knows what Favre became. Few know how he was when he started out.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

What a wild finish, but a game with warts. I have to feel for McCown, repeatedly pounded, playing hurt, and now he's likely out, leaving Austin Davis as their QB, and a knucklehead on the bench. Davis made some nice throws, and some poor clock management decisions. But what a mess coming up if McCown's collar bone is broken as suspected. I personally would not want Manziel on the field for me, no matter what, if I were the coach, or a team captain, or teammate, really. The guy is a head case, likely an addict of some sort, and a manipulative liar. Never the less, I expect there to be calls from some desperate fans, and likely management hoping to sell tickets, that Manziel will start next week and his demotion was for 1 week. It was telling a little to me when Mike Tirico and Jon Gruden were talking about McCown keeping the offense going while the team waits for Manziel, as if this were his rookie season, and nothing negative had happened. Really? Why not just sign Ray Rice while they are at it?

It's baffling to me not just because of tickets, and potential, but we're told that talent trumps all. But, I have yet to see from Manziel any real NFL talent. His numbers are no better than Davis (or Connor Shaw for that matter). His fans like to say his best performance was three weeks again against Pittsburgh, but that was in a blowout loss with numbers pretty much in garbage time. Putting faith in Manziel, to me shows that the entire Cleveland Browns organization has become a dumpster fire. If Manziel starts, and plays, next week, we'll know that little to nothing has changed since management hastily fired Rob Chudzinski (or Pat Shurmer, or Eric Mangini). Heck, different owners, but this organization also fired Bill Belicheck.

I sympathize with Pettine, but most feel sorry for the Browns stalwart players, and the team's loyal fans.

They play the 49ers in a few weeks. Should be a close game !

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re: Re:

Not be as good as Favre at this time. Become as good as Favre, yes. Or at least be an excellent player after he develops. When Favre was in Atlanta even he was not the player he eventually became. It took him time to develop. Everyone knows what Favre became. Few know how he was when he started out.

Well, with thinking that broad, one could say almost any QB drafted could be an excellent player after he develops.

But Favre was beyond that. It's rare to have a player that turns like that, and becomes as focused as he did. It's very rare. So rare, I doubt Manziel can do it. And I don't mean just clean up his act, he can probably do that. But clean up his act, and become a mole in the training room and film room like Russell Wilson (pre-Ciara ), and become a leader in the locker room, and to at least some extend to your fans and community, that's a long road.

There's another issue in that Favre had one of the strongest arms in the history of the NFL. I don't know the numbers, but from what I've seen Manzeil's arm is average. Not bad. Not a noodle arm, but average. Favre also played for one of the best franchises, and supportive sports towns in all of sports. Can anyone say that about Cleveland?

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

There is no way he was going to beat out Jackson. No possible way. Jackson could arguably start for 10 teams in the NFL this coming Sunday. He just wants to play in Seattle, they treat him right, and it's a great way to head into the twilight of his career.

The hybrid back-up QB is the way of the future (and past!). Right now we already have teams like New England who have no third QB, but use Edelman as a QB (he was a running QB in college), the 1970-80s Raiders had Ray Guy as their third QB, as he had played the position before). Pryor completely fits that mold, I'm just surprised Cleveland didn't try to make it work sooner.

If Tarvaris Jackson is your starting quarterback, you don't have a starting quarterback. What team who would have him as a starter isn't drafting or looking for a QB in free agency? No team.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

There is no way he was going to beat out Jackson. No possible way. Jackson could arguably start for 10 teams in the NFL this coming Sunday. He just wants to play in Seattle, they treat him right, and it's a great way to head into the twilight of his career.

Correct for sure about Jackson's ability & inability of Pryor to best that.

@red_flanders: On BJ Daniels, I would prolly be 99.9% certain all non-seattle fans would not know who BJ is, and 90% certain that most casual Seattle fans would not know about BJ. It would take a pretty good fan to know about BJ. He has been on the Seattle practice squad for a loooooong time as a backup QB. He has similar height and weight to Russell Wilson, but is faster than Russell. So last season Seattle tried him at WR and return man, and he made the 2014 53-man roster in that new role. In the last draft Seattle drafted WR/KR Tyler Locket, who ended BJ's hold on those positions (and then some as Tyler should be in the discussion for ROY honors). BJ is a level below TJax however, but BJ and Pryor are about the same level at QB. BJ just won out in Seattle over Pryor because he played 3 positions. The knock on BJ is he did not excel at any of those three spots. The only thing preventing BJ from being a backup QB on another NFL team IMO is his size. Otherwise, he is capable. So, what I am saying is Pryor losing out to BJ in Seattle should not be considered a slap to Pryor's face. I actually hoped Seattle would have kept Pryor.

Exactly. My point is about Pryor as a QB. If he can't beat out guys like that, not a QB. The Browns will put him at receiver and emergency QB backfill.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

And there's nothing wrong with that, and if he can play flanker as a 4th receiver, a lot right with it.

Mike Pettine has said that Austin Davis is the starting QB on Sunday, not Manziel. There has been, and will continue to be, a lot of pressure on him to start Manziel anyway, because of hype, and "potential" (ignoring any potential Davis has shown).

Remember about Tjax, I said he could arguably start this coming Sunday and do as good as the QB in place for some teams. I was not talking about leading into 2016. No team will seek him out as a starting QB for next season. His age (33), spending most of his career as a back-up, and the illusion of hope presented in every draft, would all but prevent that. Edit: Looking back I said 10 teams. That's too many, but it's probably 5 without thinking much about it. (Baltimore, Cleveland, Dallas, Philadelphia, St. Louis). Looking at the list of back-up QB's, you could probably say this about a few other players. I think this just goes to show you how fine the line of talent is in the NFL.

After a stellar game, and now 4-0 at QB this year, a near 40 year old Matt Hassleback was hit for "random" drug testing this week.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

You are kidding aren't you?

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

And there's nothing wrong with that, and if he can play flanker as a 4th receiver, a lot right with it.

Mike Pettine has said that Austin Davis is the starting QB on Sunday, not Manziel. There has been, and will continue to be, a lot of pressure on him to start Manziel anyway, because of hype, and "potential" (ignoring any potential Davis has shown).

Remember about Tjax, I said he could arguably start this coming Sunday and do as good as the QB in place for some teams. I was not talking about leading into 2016. No team will seek him out as a starting QB for next season. His age (33), spending most of his career as a back-up, and the illusion of hope presented in every draft, would all but prevent that. Edit: Looking back I said 10 teams. That's too many, but it's probably 5 without thinking much about it. (Baltimore, Cleveland, Dallas, Philadelphia, St. Louis). Looking at the list of back-up QB's, you could probably say this about a few other players. I think this just goes to show you how fine the line of talent is in the NFL.

After a stellar game, and now 4-0 at QB this year, a near 40 year old Matt Hassleback was hit for "random" drug testing this week.

I bet they found ice in his veins!

 

[movingtarget]

Chris Johnson the Cardinals RB broke his leg against the 49ers. He had been playing very well this year. Big blow leading into the play offs.

 

[movingtarget]

Sad Story re Football and Head Injuries


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/sports/ncaafootball/ryan-hoffman-north-carolina-tar-heel-dead.html?ref=sports

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

GB@DET - The roller coaster of Green Bay continues.

Boy, that is a sad story. It's almost hard to believe it's the same person.

Regarding Chris Johnson - Word is it's a hairline fracture that won't need surgery, and he wanted to have them tape the hell out of it so he could just continue playing. It looks like they are going to sit him for a couple weeks and then see what happens.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

GB@DET - The roller coaster of Green Bay continues.

Boy, that is a sad story. It's almost hard to believe it's the same person.

Regarding Chris Johnson - Word is it's a hairline fracture that won't need surgery, and he wanted to have them tape the hell out of it so he could just continue playing. It looks like they are going to sit him for a couple weeks and then see what happens.

Sometimes I think a clean break is less problematic than a hairline fracture especially when it comes to decision time. Yes you are right about the story. Very sad.

 

[movingtarget]

Seahawks and Vikings plus the Colts and Steelers could be the pick of the games this week. 49ers and Bears could be interesting with Fangio up against the guy that got the job he wanted. Both teams will know each other well. 49ers have been awful on the road this year.Chiefs vs Raiders and Texans vs Bills should also be good. Panthers should continue their winning run, against the Saints.

 

[jmdirt]

That was a 5 yard variety face mask not a 15 yard. Would that have made a difference? Who knows. Amazing ending though.