National Football League

[52520Andrew]

Yeah that was a pretty crazy ending. Past 2 games have been crazy

 

[movingtarget]

I will have to check out the Packers game. Sounded good. Amazing final pass and catch.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Amazing throw, just amazing! Over 65 yards in the air, and after he was almost sacked. After Rodgers carried this team the entire game, and almost got let down again, what a play. The question now becomes is this a lucky win, or a spark to get them back in the direction they started the season?

One knock on Aaron Rodgers is that he has less than half the 4th quarter and game winning drives that Eli Manning or Matt Ryan have. Interesting thought in that this one was on a hail mary, but it still counts on that (arguably overblown) stat. Agree on the face mask, he briefly got it with his thumb and most of the torque came from his hand on the shoulders. Very tough call though as it happened very fast, but it should have been a 5 yard penalty, not 15. Still, amazing throw by Rodgers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0vVqStvh_8

 

[52520Andrew]

Re:

should have been a 5 yard penalty, not 15.

They got rid of the 5 yard facemask and only have the 15 yarder. Forget the exact date but it has been that way for a while

I need to look at the play again but that has to be a terrible way to lose for Detroit.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

should have been a 5 yard penalty, not 15.

They got rid of the 5 yard facemask and only have the 15 yarder. Forget the exact date but it has been that way for a while

I need to look at the play again but that has to be a terrible way to lose for Detroit.

CRAZY! I watch a lot of NFL, but certainly wouldn't call my self an expert on the rules (hard to be). The fact that I was unaware that they did away with the 5 yard face mask in 2008 is crazy though. All penalties should be reviewable (since it was in the last 2:00 the booth should have looked at it). IMO, that is not a penalty. MO doesn't mean poo though!

EDIT: I'm glad they called it because it was fun to see that last play!

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Re:

should have been a 5 yard penalty, not 15.

They got rid of the 5 yard facemask and only have the 15 yarder. Forget the exact date but it has been that way for a while

I need to look at the play again but that has to be a terrible way to lose for Detroit.

CRAZY! I watch a lot of NFL, but certainly wouldn't call my self an expert on the rules (hard to be). The fact that I was unaware that they did away with the 5 yard face mask in 2008 is crazy though. All penalties should be reviewable (since it was in the last 2:00 the booth should have looked at it). IMO, that is not a penalty. MO doesn't mean poo though!

EDIT: I'm glad they called it because it was fun to see that last play!

Yeah the rules book can get really confusing(especially in the catch vs. no catch department). Even the refs don't remember all the rules all the time like the missed call in Seattle against Detroit where they didn't call the clear force out.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The catch-no catch absolutely must be reviewed this off season. It's just getting out of hand, especially plays at the sidelines. If a player has the ball with both hands and both feet in, it's a catch. It's that simple to me.

I too did not know about the 5 yard penalty for face mask being, gone. What a tough call. Still, amazing throw by Rodgers. I knew he had a strong arm, but that was insane.

As to every possible call being reviewable (with a challenge, or referee discretion), that's what Bill Belicheck wants, and I think eventually we'll get there. But not until we have a centralized review team out of NYC, with a back-up system (MLB does this). We can't have referees on the field running to the sidelines, or looking under a hood. That simply must go first, it's way too slow and cumbersome.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Agree totally on the need to review the catch / no catch rules.

It was a important face-mask call that got the Pack one more shot. But Detroit could have done plenty of other things better to preserve the win, but failed to. Hats off to the Pack's comeback in that game.

And since it was a Hail Mary, what a bookend for the Fail Mary suffered by the Pack in Seattle. It is funny to note that the WR who caught the Fail Mary for Seattle vs Packers (couple yrs ago) was Golden Tate III, now who everyone knows is a starting WR for Detroit. Sort of like Karma .

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

You are kidding aren't you?

Not really kidding. Good question though. Although I'm not sure which part you think I might be kidding about? I could guess it is either:
- facts about Favrve's off-field issues in Atlanta: This is public knowledge that aired this week on the NFL network.
- that I might have implied Manziel is the next Favre: that was not my intent, explained below
- that the Browns should take into consideration Manziel's potential development: see explanation below,
OR some combination of the above.

My intent with the Favre reference was not to say Johnny Manziel (JM) is the next Favre. A better real life example, but at a different position, would have been retired WR Chris Carter, who had multiple off-field issues during his initial NFL career in Philly and who was cut by Philly as a result of those issues. Since Carter's retirement he has said publicly that the primary motivating consequence that caused him to turn his life around was being cut by Philly. He responded to that consequence by becoming an NFL Hall Of Famer. So how do the responses by those two greats to the consequences they went through relate to the Browns organization and JM?
- First JM's development: if you watched the last MNF game's halftime show. Jon Gruden showed areas where JM has improved his game, and said he thought JM can become a very good player in the NFL. Gruden has watched way more tape on JM than all of us here combined, so his assessment of JM's potential is what I hang my hat on. Bottom line is that, for now, JM is still worth being invested in.
- The Browns organization certainly does not want to waste a 1st round pick by cutting JM, only to watch JM go to another team and become a great player. Maybe not as great as Favre, but at least a worthy starter.
- How long is it worth staying invested in JM? All depends on how he reacts to recent setbacks (being benched and demoted to 3rd string QB). I think the Browns made an excellent decision to bench JM this week AND demote him to 3rd string. That way JM is not rewarded this week with another start. Austin Davis gets that honor, and his coaches have said he has earned the right. EARNED is a very good use of words by them. All JM has to do is earn back the right to start. But to do that he has to start doing ALL of the things the Browns organization expect him to.

So right now, the Browns are watching JM to see how he responds. Is he going to respond like a Favre or a Carter? Or is he going to continue his irresponsible ways? If the latter, I expect the Browns will cut him. They may have to. That might be what it takes to motivate JM enough to turn it around. It is all up to JM to determine how big of a consequence it will take.

All that said, one way or another, I hope JM can make the changes he needs to for his sake.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Here is a little fact some of you might know. A fact that the Browns organization might consider when it comes to Manziel. I think this is from the 90's. The Atlanta falcons had a QB on their roster that the falcons wanted to get rid of, because that player had a ton of issues with alcohol, missing meetings and so on. Green Bay made it easy for Atlanta by giving Atlanta a first round pick for the player. That player was Bret Favre.

You are kidding aren't you?

Not really kidding. Good question though. Although I'm not sure which part you think I might be kidding about? I could guess it is either:
- facts about Favrve's off-field issues in Atlanta: This is public knowledge that aired this week on the NFL network.
- that I might have implied Manziel is the next Favre: that was not my intent, explained below
- that the Browns should take into consideration Manziel's potential development: see explanation below,
OR some combination of the above.

My intent with the Favre reference was not to say Johnny Manziel (JM) is the next Favre. A better real life example, but at a different position, would have been retired WR Chris Carter, who had multiple off-field issues during his initial NFL career in Philly and who was cut by Philly as a result of those issues. Since Carter's retirement he has said publicly that the primary motivating consequence that caused him to turn his life around was being cut by Philly. He responded to that consequence by becoming an NFL Hall Of Famer. So how do the responses by those two greats to the consequences they went through relate to the Browns organization and JM?
- First JM's development: if you watched the last MNF game's halftime show. Jon Gruden showed areas where JM has improved his game, and said he thought JM can become a very good player in the NFL. Gruden has watched way more tape on JM than all of us here combined, so his assessment of JM's potential is what I hang my hat on. Bottom line is that, for now, JM is still worth being invested in.
- The Browns organization certainly does not want to waste a 1st round pick by cutting JM, only to watch JM go to another team and become a great player. Maybe not as great as Favre, but at least a worthy starter.
- How long is it worth staying invested in JM? All depends on how he reacts to recent setbacks (being benched and demoted to 3rd string QB). I think the Browns made an excellent decision to bench JM this week AND demote him to 3rd string. That way JM is not rewarded this week with another start. Austin Davis gets that honor, and his coaches have said he has earned the right. EARNED is a very good use of words by them. All JM has to do is earn back the right to start. But to do that he has to start doing ALL of the things the Browns organization expect him to.

So right now, the Browns are watching JM to see how he responds. Is he going to respond like a Favre or a Carter? Or is he going to continue his irresponsible ways? If the latter, I expect the Browns will cut him. They may have to. That might be what it takes to motivate JM enough to turn it around. It is all up to JM to determine how big of a consequence it will take.

All that said, one way or another, I hope JM can make the changes he needs to for his sake.

I kind of figured that later. Honestly, I too would love to see JM pull his head out and become a great QB.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

The catch-no catch absolutely must be reviewed this off season. It's just getting out of hand, especially plays at the sidelines. If a player has the ball with both hands and both feet in, it's a catch. It's that simple to me.

I too did not know about the 5 yard penalty for face mask being, gone. What a tough call. Still, amazing throw by Rodgers. I knew he had a strong arm, but that was insane.

As to every possible call being reviewable (with a challenge, or referee discretion), that's what Bill Belicheck wants, and I think eventually we'll get there. But not until we have a centralized review team out of NYC, with a back-up system (MLB does this). We can't have referees on the field running to the sidelines, or looking under a hood. That simply must go first, it's way too slow and cumbersome.

My "vision" of this would be that each team gets one review of anything they want, not tied to a time out, and two reviews tied to timeouts (like now). plus every play is quickly looked at in NY. Think about how often it is instantly obvious to TV viewers what happened (often we have three better/slower looks than the ref). NY buzzes the ref and says "catch", "no catch", "no face mask", "bad spot"...if it is different than called on the field. I agree, no ref to the sideline reviews, all of it is done in NY.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The problem with that is hurry-up offenses would negate it.

Some predictions for this weekend.

NYJ@NYG - Been burned by both of these teams, and both need to win, but I'll stick with the "home" team I guess.
ATL@TB - A once promising start comes to a near abysmal end. Hope for TB's future.
SEA@MIN - While I think Seattle will move the ball, I think Minnesota will too.
SF@CHI - I'm sure the Bears defense is very motivated to stuff SF for their coach (Fangio).
JAX@TEN - The Titans have not won a home game in over a year. That win was against Jax.
HOU@BUF - I just think the Bill have more tools.
CIN@CLE - If the Browns can't move the ball, when does Manziel play?
KC@OAK - The Chiefs are really on a roll. I'd love to see the Raiders stop them in this big rivalry.
DEN@SD - A great game for Osweiller.
PHI@NE - Half the Patriot team could not play and they'd still win. Wait, half the Patriot team probably won't play due to injury.
CAR@NO - This may be close, but Panthers to go 13-0, and the unbeaten talk heats up.
IND@PIT - Both teams are 6-5, and maybe should be better. Can Hassleback go 5-0 as a starter?
DAL@WAS - Skins newfound first place stature will suit them well at home.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I evidently omitted to post my Packer pick.

NYJ @ NYG - Even though the Giants can't be that bad two weeks running, I can't pick 'em.
ARI @ STL - Looks like an away banker.
ATL @ TB - I'll give Buccs home edge, just. Maybe.
SEA @ MIN - Another toss up. Home edge.
HOU @ BUF - God knows. Texans. Maybe.
BAL @ MIA - Fins, just. Maybe.
CIN @ CLE - Bengals to continue rolling.
JAX @ TEN - Home edge. Maybe.
SF @ CHI - Surely the Bears can't lose this?
DEN @ SD - Bolts suck.
KC @ OAK - KC should be better.
CAR @ NO - Pretty yuuge away banker.
PHI @ NE - Yuuge home banker.
IND @ PIT - Pretty big home banker.
DAL @ WSH - I can hardly believe I am typing these words, but we really are big favorites.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

The problem with that is hurry-up offenses would negate it.

Some predictions for this weekend.

NYJ@NYG - Been burned by both of these teams, and both need to win, but I'll stick with the "home" team I guess.
ATL@TB - A once promising start comes to a near abysmal end. Hope for TB's future.
SEA@MIN - While I think Seattle will move the ball, I think Minnesota will too.
SF@CHI - I'm sure the Bears defense is very motivated to stuff SF for their coach (Fangio).
JAX@TEN - The Titans have not won a home game in over a year. That win was against Jax.
HOU@BUF - I just think the Bill have more tools.
CIN@CLE - If the Browns can't move the ball, when does Manziel play?
KC@OAK - The Chiefs are really on a roll. I'd love to see the Raiders stop them in this big rivalry.
DEN@SD - A great game for Osweiller.
PHI@NE - Half the Patriot team could not play and they'd still win. Wait, half the Patriot team probably won't play due to injury.
CAR@NO - This may be close, but Panthers to go 13-0, and the unbeaten talk heats up.
IND@PIT - Both teams are 6-5, and maybe should be better. Can Hassleback go 5-0 as a starter?
DAL@WAS - Skins newfound first place stature will suit them well at home.

Mostly.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

You guys got it wrong on SEA.
SEA's UFA RB TRawls outperforms MIN's Peterson.
SEA ftw.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re:

And since it was a Hail Mary, what a bookend for the Fail Mary suffered by the Pack in Seattle. It is funny to note that the WR who caught the Fail Mary for Seattle vs Packers (couple yrs ago) was Golden Tate III, now who everyone knows is a starting WR for Detroit. Sort of like Karma .

I found that to be a bit funny as well

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Holy smokes, Seahawks!

 

[Irondan]

Seahawks are back! Be afraid... Be very afraid..............

 

[movingtarget]

Seahawks looking good. Panthers get a tough win. 49ers will be thanking the Bears kicker but are showing signs of improvement and they play the Browns next week, Detroit, and the Rams in their final game so they have the chance to redeem themselves somewhat but can't see them beating the Bengals. If they had won more games early in the season that is a pretty good run in to the playoffs against some mediocre teams. Glad the Jets won and the Bills. I hope the Colts can win. Another good win for the Cardinals. I think I read that only nine teams have had the same start to the season as the Panthers and six of them made it to the Superbowl, not sure how many of them actually won.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

On Antonio Brown's use of the goal post as a prop, he must not be too concerned about having kids.
And the ref looked like he was about to bust out laughing as he announced the unsportsmanlike penalty for the prop use. LMAO. Wonder what the security gal behind the post thought.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Seahawks are back! Be afraid... Be very afraid..............

Whad I tell y'all. T Rawls baby!

 

[jmdirt]

Panthers look good but the D needs to step up. Seahawks are getting better at the right time. Pats need to get healthy. Bengals, Broncos, and Cards looking good.

I hate NFL scheduling! Every year many teams play in week 12ish and again in week 16ish. Play all of the teams in your div. once and then other teams for the rest of the sched (don't play anyone twice).

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

It is funny to note that the WR who caught the Fail Mary for Seattle vs Packers (couple yrs ago) was Golden Tate III, now who everyone knows is a starting WR for Detroit. Sort of like Karma .

And that the WR who caught the HM, Richard Rodgers, Jr., is the son of a player who was involved in possibly the wildest finish to a game in history--the Cal-Stanford Big Game in 1982. Stanford took the lead on a FG with four seconds left; their coach, Paul Wiggin, could have let the clock run down to zero, and the game would have been over. He didn't, Stanford had to kick off, and all he!! broke loose. Something like eleven laterals, with Rodgers involved in a couple of them, with a Cal player ending up in the end zone. Something like that happened this year, too, but the TD was finally scored by a long run. In the 1982 game, it was little by little. Everyone thought Stanford had won, including their band, members of whom came out on the field to celebrate and helped prevent their team from tackling the Cal players. I think it was a while before they realized they had lost the game.

As a result of this game, Stanford--which had beaten a no. 1 team, and lost in the final 30 seconds to a no. 2 team earlier--finished under .500 and not bowl-eligible. A sad way to end a collegiate career for one of their seniors--John Elway.

Here's a trivia question. Cam Newton now appears to be the favorite to win the MVP. When was the last time a Heisman Trophy winning-QB went on to win the MVP in the NFL? Never! When was the last time a Heisman winning QB even had a decent career? Look at recent winners: Manziel, RGIII, Bradford, Leinart, Tebow, White...Carson Palmer has had a pretty good career, and a resurgence with the Cardinals. After that, you have to go back to Jim Plunkett. Mariota has had a pretty good season, and may join Newton, but history is certainly against him.

Panther fans and Saints fans will like this analysis of the team by Roman Harper, now with the Panthers, formerly with the Saints. He was on the latter team in 2009 when they won their first 13 games and went on to win the SB:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/03/nfl-roman-harper-carolina-panthers-undefeated

 

[Pricey_sky]

The Panthers continue to keep giving me mini heart-attacks at 1am on a Monday morning. Defence had a rare terrible game, probably the worst since the game v the Eagles last November. Super Cam stepped up and got the job done though. I wouldn't mind losing the unbeaten run but would have hated to lose it against the Saints!

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re:

Panthers look good but the D needs to step up. Seahawks are getting better at the right time. Pats need to get healthy. Bengals, Broncos, and Cards looking good.

I hate NFL scheduling! Every year many teams play in week 12ish and again in week 16ish. Play all of the teams in your div. once and then other teams for the rest of the sched (don't play anyone twice).

I disagree. The home and away against your division opponents is one of the core rivalry (and interest) building parts of the NFL.