National Football League

[leftover pie]

Re: Re:

The rule is different when player with the ball has established himself as a runner, which Bernard was deemed to have on that play, and thus wasn't, according to the rule, a defenseless receiver..

That I understand, but each player caught the ball and then took 2 steps, if that, how has one established themselves as a runner while the other hasn't?

You mean Burfict's hit on Antonio Brown that was flagged, right? - or have I misunderstood something?
If it's the hit on Brown; he didn't catch the ball

No there was another "defenceless receiver" hit earlier in the game that was flagged that to me looked like the player had as much time to compose themselves before the hit and it drew a penalty, that's why I couldn't understand the Shazier hit not getting a penalty.

found a video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000620128/Ben-Roethlisberger-finds-Markus-Wheaton-for-24-yard-gain

But let's say for instance that the shazier hit drew a penalty, would that overturn the fumble?

 

[Billie]

Bernard hit was not a defenseless reciever cause he clearly established as a runner. But Shazier clearly led with the crown of the helmet. So you can't compare it to the hit on Weathon or the Burfict hit cause it's another rule.

If Crown of the helmet was called it would have been 15 extra yards (or maybe 5 i don't know exactly) plus a first down for Cinci instead of the fumble

 

[Billie]

Seems like it'll be Rams and Chargers in Kroenke's Inglewood stadium with the Raiders staying in Oakland.

 

[leftover pie]

Re:

Bernard hit was not a defenseless reciever cause he clearly established as a runner.

Can you explain to me how he clearly established himself as a runner (compared to the WR that took the catch).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I can't quite claim I was completely right in my prediction about the Rams moving to LA with Kroenke building a stadium. But I was close. I did not however see the Chargers moving into the stadium as well (probably), and the league ponying up $100m to help the Raiders stay in the Bay Area.

Despite my being a Raiders fan, I have to believe this makes the most sense.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I can't quite claim I was completely right in my prediction about the Rams moving to LA with Kroenke building a stadium. But I was close. I did not however see the Chargers moving into the stadium as well (probably), and the league ponying up $100m to help the Raiders stay in the Bay Area.

Despite my being a Raiders fan, I have to believe this makes the most sense.

It'll be interesting how long the interest in the NFL stays in LA. LA has always been a big basketball city, a big NBA market. Huge media interest, for many reasons. The Dodgers are next, even though it's been a while since they last won a WS. The Kings are rising, as they've been at or near the top of the NHL for the past 6 years or so. Then there are college sports to choose from, with USC and UCLA in the city. I don't know really now the history of the NFL in LA, but a lot of people say it wasn't supported well enough for them to stay. That and the widow of the old Rams owner decided to move the team to here hometown, St. Louis. The Rams found some success there, obviously winning the SB in the 1999 season (that was great game against the Titans!), but have been more or less a mediocre team the last decade. How will the Rams be welcomed back in LA? Will they get the support? There has been a lot of movement of this franchise. Looking at their history, they went from Cleveland to LA to Anaheim (although still called LA Rams), to St. Louis and now back to LA.

The Raiders have been in LA as well.

3 NFL teams in LA? How amusing would that be?

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

That sounds pretty bad. I still think if he can play at all, he'll play.

Movingtarget - Good update/analysis of coaches. Agree Jackson may have his pick of the litter, and as I said, Coughlin will coach if he really wants to, and can come to terms with a team.

Coughlin also has an interview scheduled with the Eagles. So it sounds like he wants to continue.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I can't quite claim I was completely right in my prediction about the Rams moving to LA with Kroenke building a stadium. But I was close. I did not however see the Chargers moving into the stadium as well (probably), and the league ponying up $100m to help the Raiders stay in the Bay Area.

Despite my being a Raiders fan, I have to believe this makes the most sense.

It'll be interesting how long the interest in the NFL stays in LA. LA has always been a big basketball city, a big NBA market. Huge media interest, for many reasons. The Dodgers are next, even though it's been a while since they last won a WS. The Kings are rising, as they've been at or near the top of the NHL for the past 6 years or so. Then there are college sports to choose from, with USC and UCLA in the city. I don't know really now the history of the NFL in LA, but a lot of people say it wasn't supported well enough for them to stay. That and the widow of the old Rams owner decided to move the team to here hometown, St. Louis. The Rams found some success there, obviously winning the SB in the 1999 season (that was great game against the Titans!), but have been more or less a mediocre team the last decade. How will the Rams be welcomed back in LA? Will they get the support? There has been a lot of movement of this franchise. Looking at their history, they went from Cleveland to LA to Anaheim (although still called LA Rams), to St. Louis and now back to LA.

The Raiders have been in LA as well.

3 NFL teams in LA? How amusing would that be?

It sounds crazy to me.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think BullsFan22 touches on a point I brought up before. LA is a huge market, but it's also a very busy metropolis with people doing a lot of things, and their own thing. It's as much a basketball town (when the Lakers are good) or baseball team (when the Dodgers are average, or good, or Angels are good), as an NFL team could be. It's not like the team was screaming and crying and dying to get a team. You rarely heard this from anyone there. But because the market is so huge, I do think one team could definitely be successful there. Two? Maybe.

If I were Dean Spanos and the Chargers, I would definitely be telling everyone that I was 99% moving the team there, if not to LA (and play at the Coliseum? Rose Bowl?) definitely when Kroenke's stadium opens. Then, behind the scenes, I'd still work to pressure the city of San Diego, plus other potential investors, and the league, that they still have a chance to keep the team there, if they build them a new stadium. But the clock is really, really ticking.

The Raiders are left out here. But if I were them I'd do similar, say that if the Chargers don't move to LA, they will. And at the same time keep pushing to sell minority ownership of the team, get some city/county in the Bay Area (stretching to Sacramento even, Oakland alone doesn't have the money) to build a stadium, and dangle that $100m carrot from the NFL out there as a last chance for them to keep their team. And if that doesn't happen, the Raiders (or Chargers) could still end up ultimately moving to San Antonio, St. Louis, San Diego, Portland, Las Vegas, etc. in 5 years or so.

I have to admit, this was extremely deft on the part of the owners and the NFL. When people bashed the league and owners Foxxy repeatedly said "no owners, no league". I never disagreed, and said it myself, but this move shows just how much business smarts the league and it's owners have. This could have gone wrong in a lot of ways, and ended up with big lawsuits with the league battling Kroenke's billions and law firms. Instead, they somehow put their collective hats together, with big props to Jerry Jones, who may be a but nuts about his team, but understands corporate business, and openly deferred to Kroenke's success in a variety of businesses (and wealth, if unsaid). I suspected this might happen, even pointed it out a week or so ago, but I never thought this would go this smooth, get decided this soon, and the NFL would come up with options, and support for existing teams and all franchises.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Someone had to fall for it, and it's Hugh Jackson, who has taken the Cleveland job. I noted before there are a few things to like there, roster wise. They have a solid defense, and potentially a trio of excellent receivers, Benjamin can just fly, Hawkins in the slot missed all of 2015 on IR, and if he gets his head on straight, Josh Gordon. They badly need a QB, and if forever All Pro Joe Thomas moves on, they'll need more OL help, like, with that 2nd pick in the draft. Can anyone see Jackson trading to get AJ McCarron to head the Browns at QB?

The biggest problem I see with the Browns is management. They have no GM right now, and you have an owner whose patience makes Daniel Snyder look like the Dalai Lama.

I also am certain they are looking at probably Goff in the draft as the savior to the franchise. As I noted in posts before, teams tend to do this. It's actually a managerial phenomenon someone probably wrote a thesis on. That despite there being plenty of capable QBs in the NFL, and being able to protect them is paramount, teams frequently look to the draft and see stars. They see a player who has never failed in the NFL, and one who comes cheap. Can we count how many times NFL teams have done this, and been successful? Very few. Even Andrew Luck has struggled, and it took Alex Smith quite a while to be above average. Or how many have done it and failed? How about in Cleveland alone? Going back to Tim Couch, it's been an ugly recent history.

 

[red_flanders]

Goff seems pretty far from a slam-dunk. Ending up in Cleveland would seem to up his chances of failure considerably.

 

[movingtarget]

Will Kaep Head To The Browns ?

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article54471595.html

 

[movingtarget]

Shanahan is reportedly back in the mix for the 49ers coaching job but has not been interviewed yet. Phone discussions only so far.

 

[movingtarget]

Sad Story

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/report-former-49ers-rb-phillips-found-dead-prison

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Shanahan is reportedly back in the mix for the 49ers coaching job but has not been interviewed yet. Phone discussions only so far.

To parody Netserk: Shanahan is like Cancellara and the Black Album: good but way overrated . Take away Elway and Davis and he's an average head coach at best.

 

[movingtarget]

Giants Hire McAdoo

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/report-giants-hire-mcadoo-replace-coughlin-new-york

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The McAdoo hiring is no surprise. They were somewhat grooming him anyway, and Eli is a big supporter of his. I'm always iffy on coordinators jumping to the top spot, but their offense seemed to play well under him, and the Giants are a very well run organization.

As to Shanahan, I have to agree he's been average if you take away some of his big players (Elway), but you could say that about a lot of coaches. He's known for being no-nonsense, and that might be something the 49ers need. This is Mike, not Kyle we're talking about, right?

Agree completely on Goff (or Lynch) coming in and on day 1 leading the Browns to a winning season. I wrote about this quite a bit yesterday. As to Kaepernick, IF he gets his ego in check, and gets OL help, and Gordon comes back, he could do well in Cleveland. Jackson helped take Dalton from a good QB, to the next level. Can he take a talented Kaep, and turn him into a consistently good QB? I'd take that risk over Goff in a heart beat.

No love for Chip Kelly?

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

The McAdoo hiring is no surprise. They were somewhat grooming him anyway, and Eli is a big supporter of his. I'm always iffy on coordinators jumping to the top spot, but their offense seemed to play well under him, and the Giants are a very well run organization.

As to Shanahan, I have to agree he's been average if you take away some of his big players (Elway), but you could say that about a lot of coaches. He's known for being no-nonsense, and that might be something the 49ers need. This is Mike, not Kyle we're talking about, right?

Agree completely on Goff (or Lynch) coming in and on day 1 leading the Browns to a winning season. I wrote about this quite a bit yesterday. As to Kaepernick, IF he gets his ego in check, and gets OL help, and Gordon comes back, he could do well in Cleveland. Jackson helped take Dalton from a good QB, to the next level. Can he take a talented Kaep, and turn him into a consistently good QB? I'd take that risk over Goff in a heart beat.

No love for Chip Kelly?

RE: Kaep: I agree, I think that he can be a solid QB (top 16). Maybe being the backup this year will tame his ego, but give him some motivation. He needs a change, SF is changing, but he needs a complete change. CLE might be good.

 

[Billie]

Chip Kelly will be the 49ers new Head coach

Coughlin will not become the Eagles Coach. It's Doug Pederson's to take (very similar to Andy Reid 18 years ago)

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Chip Kelly will be the 49ers new Head coach

Coughlin will not become the Eagles Coach. It's Doug Pederson's to take (very similar to Andy Reid 18 years ago)

Chip is in. Maybe Kaep should stay because they could be a good match.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Probably a good match. Hard to say for sure. SF is going to be clash of the egos, with Chip, Baalke, and York. I compared that to Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room earlier. Should be fun to watch, especially if the team doesn't win.

Where I think Tom Coughlin should go is Tampa. They're a young team, he's tough, but fair, and would instill hard work into them, and could turn Winston into an excellent QB. Lovie Smith already built a pretty good team. Tom's also historically had teams where the offense ran solid, and the QB threw the ball down the field. Winston and that team can do that.

Still think a prize is Tennessee though. Surprised to see so little movement there. Potential star QB, first pick in the draft. Cap room. Sure, they have no real owner, just a group of misfit people, but there's potential there.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Probably a good match. Hard to say for sure. SF is going to be clash of the egos, with Chip, Baalke, and York. I compared that to Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room earlier. Should be fun to watch, especially if the team doesn't win.

Where I think Tom Coughlin should go is Tampa. They're a young team, he's tough, but fair, and would instill hard work into them, and could turn Winston into an excellent QB. Lovie Smith already built a pretty good team. Tom's also historically had teams where the offense ran solid, and the QB threw the ball down the field. Winston and that team can do that.

Still think a prize is Tennessee though. Surprised to see so little movement there. Potential star QB, first pick in the draft. Cap room. Sure, they have no real owner, just a group of misfit people, but there's potential there.

The other plus for Tom going to Tampa is that he is probably moving to FL anyway.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Probably a good match. Hard to say for sure. SF is going to be clash of the egos, with Chip, Baalke, and York. I compared that to Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room earlier. Should be fun to watch, especially if the team doesn't win.

Where I think Tom Coughlin should go is Tampa. They're a young team, he's tough, but fair, and would instill hard work into them, and could turn Winston into an excellent QB. Lovie Smith already built a pretty good team. Tom's also historically had teams where the offense ran solid, and the QB threw the ball down the field. Winston and that team can do that.

Still think a prize is Tennessee though. Surprised to see so little movement there. Potential star QB, first pick in the draft. Cap room. Sure, they have no real owner, just a group of misfit people, but there's potential there.

The OC Dirk Koetter will become the HC in Tampa. Think they realised they might lose him to another team and thus fired Lovie Smith. Want him to keep working with Jameis.

The owner in Tennesee doesn't want to hire a new head coach. It would apparently make the sale harder if there is a coach with a huge contract in town.


In other news not mentioned yet. Patriots star DE Chandler Jones got so high Sunday he went to the police station not wearing any shirt or shoes. too funny haha

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Chip Kelly will be the 49ers new Head coach

Coughlin will not become the Eagles Coach. It's Doug Pederson's to take (very similar to Andy Reid 18 years ago)

I think Chip at the 49ers will either be a train wreck or provide the shake up the team needs. But it seems there are a lot of fans and 49ers commentators uneasy about the signing in light of Chip's recent history. It seems that the GM Baalke will retain control of the player roster. The commentary from fellow coaches and ex players has been positive. Most say that it's a good move. Obviously not many of the Eagles personnel were interviewed ! Time will tell. This probably just complicates their QB issues as Chip was a fan of Kaep. I wonder what Gabbert thinks ? Surely they will still draft a QB or try to.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Probably a good match. Hard to say for sure. SF is going to be clash of the egos, with Chip, Baalke, and York. I compared that to Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room earlier. Should be fun to watch, especially if the team doesn't win.

Where I think Tom Coughlin should go is Tampa. They're a young team, he's tough, but fair, and would instill hard work into them, and could turn Winston into an excellent QB. Lovie Smith already built a pretty good team. Tom's also historically had teams where the offense ran solid, and the QB threw the ball down the field. Winston and that team can do that.

Still think a prize is Tennessee though. Surprised to see so little movement there. Potential star QB, first pick in the draft. Cap room. Sure, they have no real owner, just a group of misfit people, but there's potential there.

The OC Dirk Koetter will become the HC in Tampa. Think they realised they might lose him to another team and thus fired Lovie Smith. Want him to keep working with Jameis.

The owner in Tennesee doesn't want to hire a new head coach. It would apparently make the sale harder if there is a coach with a huge contract in town.


In other news not mentioned yet. Patriots star DE Chandler Jones got so high Sunday he went to the police station not wearing any shirt or shoes. too funny haha

All of the local media is buzzing with Koetter news. No official word yet, but it sounds like a done deal.