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National Football League

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If you look at the stats, it's actually the Panthers defense that had one of the best performances in history. Granted, the Bronco offense was pretty anemic, but the Panther defense really played their best. They held the Bronco offense to 191 net yards of offense. 90 on the ground, and only 104 through the air. Denver had a measly 3.5 yards per play. Carolina also stopped the Broncos on third down to the tune of 1/14 conversions, held them to 1/4 in the red zone, and they made them punt 8 times. Plus Denver had only 11 first downs all day.

By comparison, against the "best ever?" Denver defense, the Panthers offense had 315 net yards, 4.2 per play, 21 first downs, and 3/15 third down conversions. Three turnovers, 102 yards in penalties and Norwood's punt return hurt as much as anything. Not great numbers, but had Carolina somehow won the game, we'd be talking about their defense.
 
Wow! Check out this Deadspin article, titled, Peyton Manning can eat ***"

On Sunday night, what we got was an over-the-hill, shitty player who had to be dragged to a title by a world-class defense … a player who was benched for ineffective play earlier this season and was reinstated to the starting lineup only because his replacement was equally ineffective.

And how did Peyton Manning celebrate this good fortune? By kissing *** Papa John and openly shilling for Budweiser. The biggest, most wonderful moment at the end of a storied career, and he’s selling me shitty beer.

*** this guy.

http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-can-eat-***-1757781250

Really thorough and interesting analysis at ESPN:

Manning finished the day with a staggeringly low 9.9 QBR, the lowest single-game figure for a winning quarterback in the playoffs since the statistic was invented. Passers with a QBR of 15 or less were previously 0-19 in the postseason, and in 2015, passers with a similar QBR were 5-39 (.114).

That is really a tribute to Denver's defense.

It's a word that will make some Broncos fans angry, but luck is part and parcel of any team's path to the championship, and that wasn't any different for Denver on Sunday. It's a little more complicated than saying that fumble recoveries are a 50-50 proposition, but that's close enough to the truth to illuminate just how meaningful and unlikely it was for the Broncos to recover five of the seven fumbles which hit the ground during Super Bowl 50. Forcing fumbles is a skill, as Panthers cornerback Charles Tillman can attest, but the art of recovering fumbles is still a mystery.

Even more important was just how meaningful those fumbles were. The three most valuable fumbles in the game, by far, all went to Denver. That includes the two Miller stripsacks, which resulted in a fumble recovery touchdown and a four-yard drive which produced Denver's other touchdown, as well as the Trevathan recovery of the fumble at the end of T.J. Ward's interception return, which came inside the Denver 10-yard line and would have given the Panthers a first-and-goal situation. The other four recoveries were split evenly and all within 12 yards of midfield. Recovering those three key fumbles was, after accounting for game situation and field position, worth somewhere in the range of 13-14 points for the Broncos.

[Miller and Ware]only rushed after Newton together on 16 dropbacks, per ESPN Stats and Information. Those 16 dropbacks did not go well for Cam: they generated four sacks and two forced fumbles, while Newton otherwise went 1-of-12 on those those passes.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14734128/ranking-reasons-super-bowl-50-upset-denver-broncos-nfl
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Merckx index said:
Wow! Check out this Deadspin article, titled, Peyton Manning can eat ****"

On Sunday night, what we got was an over-the-hill, shitty player who had to be dragged to a title by a world-class defense … a player who was benched for ineffective play earlier this season and was reinstated to the starting lineup only because his replacement was equally ineffective.

And how did Peyton Manning celebrate this good fortune? By kissing **** Papa John and openly shilling for Budweiser. The biggest, most wonderful moment at the end of a storied career, and he’s selling me shitty beer.

**** this guy.

http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-can-eat-***-1757781250

Sore-losing Carolina fan no doubt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oau4_P_eF0
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Merckx index said:
Wow! Check out this Deadspin article, titled, Peyton Manning can eat ****"

On Sunday night, what we got was an over-the-hill, shitty player who had to be dragged to a title by a world-class defense … a player who was benched for ineffective play earlier this season and was reinstated to the starting lineup only because his replacement was equally ineffective.

And how did Peyton Manning celebrate this good fortune? By kissing **** Papa John and openly shilling for Budweiser. The biggest, most wonderful moment at the end of a storied career, and he’s selling me shitty beer.

**** this guy.

http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-can-eat-***-1757781250


Sore-losing Carolina fan no doubt.

Magary is a Vikings fan. That alone gives a person the right to be a bitter about every super bowl winner. Speaking from experience.
 
I've heard two things about PM's Superbowl advertisement: AB gave $1.6 mil to PM's foundation. In that case I would hope that he would say that he was going to drink their (crappy IMO) beer. He owns several distributors in the south. Great way to move more product.
 
Re:

52520Andrew said:
Cam will be fine. There are many worse things than losing in the Super Bowl to one of the all time great NFL defenses and that team is talented enough that they could be back next year even.
Well, I'm not so sure he'll be fine. But I'm not questioning that based on the post game presser or flopping himself on the sideline like a child when someone on the team made a mistake. I'm considering what his inner core is made of, his mettle. We all saw his fumble he failed to dive on. Actually, he literally pulled back. I assumed that was by choice. What if that "pulling back" was instinctive behavior??? That says more is under the hood than we expected. It says he is mentally weak, which is why I question whether he will be fine or not. All things considered, I lost some respect for Cam. If he pulls that Superman pose next year he might get railed on for it.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
52520Andrew said:
Cam will be fine. There are many worse things than losing in the Super Bowl to one of the all time great NFL defenses and that team is talented enough that they could be back next year even.
Well, I'm not so sure he'll be fine. But I'm not questioning that based on the post game presser or flopping himself on the sideline like a child when someone on the team made a mistake. I'm considering what his inner core is made of, his mettle. We all saw his fumble he failed to dive on. Actually, he literally pulled back. I assumed that was by choice. What if that "pulling back" was instinctive behavior??? That says more is under the hood than we expected. It says he is mentally weak, which is why I question whether he will be fine or not. All things considered, I lost some respect for Cam. If he pulls that Superman pose next year he might get railed on for it.

He will be ok, it's going to take some getting over obviously but I don't question his mental strength. Panthers have had plenty of very close games this year and Cam produced the goods when it mattered.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
52520Andrew said:
Cam will be fine. There are many worse things than losing in the Super Bowl to one of the all time great NFL defenses and that team is talented enough that they could be back next year even.
Well, I'm not so sure he'll be fine. But I'm not questioning that based on the post game presser or flopping himself on the sideline like a child when someone on the team made a mistake. I'm considering what his inner core is made of, his mettle. We all saw his fumble he failed to dive on. Actually, he literally pulled back. I assumed that was by choice. What if that "pulling back" was instinctive behavior??? That says more is under the hood than we expected. It says he is mentally weak, which is why I question whether he will be fine or not. All things considered, I lost some respect for Cam. If he pulls that Superman pose next year he might get railed on for it.
This is what I posted about "the fumble" yesterday:
Cam not diving on the fumble late in the game- his lineman had it so I think that he pulled off http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Cam_Newton_Fumble_Super_Bowl_50_Dive_On_It.jpg
How many times have you seen a guy knock a loose ball away from his teammate or knock his teammate off of the loose ball? Too many.
I'll add this morning that once his lineman didn't secure it, Cam dove in the pile for the ball (the ball had squirted out though). He's a great QB and will likely only get better. He risked his body time and time again all season so I don't see how anyone can question his "guts". One area he will obviously have to improve is his mental/emotional ability to handle tough times both during and after them game. As a Seahawks fan, I hope that he has more issues! :rolleyes:

EDIT: Cam said that his leg was contorted so my theory is wrong.
 
Re: Re:

on3m@n@rmy said:
52520Andrew said:
Cam will be fine. There are many worse things than losing in the Super Bowl to one of the all time great NFL defenses and that team is talented enough that they could be back next year even.
Well, I'm not so sure he'll be fine. But I'm not questioning that based on the post game presser or flopping himself on the sideline like a child when someone on the team made a mistake. I'm considering what his inner core is made of, his mettle. We all saw his fumble he failed to dive on. Actually, he literally pulled back. I assumed that was by choice. What if that "pulling back" was instinctive behavior??? That says more is under the hood than we expected. It says he is mentally weak, which is why I question whether he will be fine or not. All things considered, I lost some respect for Cam. If he pulls that Superman pose next year he might get railed on for it.

I am not going to go out of my way to call Cam the most mature QB in the league or anything but even Peyton stormed off the field after losing to the Saints and Tom Brady has thrown plenty of temper tantrums over losing. To me, this is just the media overreacting to everything as per usual. The chances of Cam Newton self destructing over a lost super bowl are about the same as the Seahawks self destructing after losing their composure at the end of the Super Bowl last year.

Can't defend the fumble, gotta dive for that but I could care less about the Superman pose. If anything, the NFL needs more people to do that sort of thing to make the game interesting. I love some good trash talk in the game and while there are limits to it(don't run at guys and spear them or self destruct to lose a playoff game by committing stupid penalties), it provides personality to the players and teams. I respect players who just hand the ball to the ref after scoring a TD but people that talk smack and those TD dances can be quite entertaining. The point in playing the game is to have fun, I am not going to get too out of shape over guys doing just that.
 
I don't know how many of you listen to Mike and Mike in the morning on ESPN radio, but the Superbowl MVP was on with them this morning...good interview. Good insight in to Ware and Manning as well as his take on Johnny Football (same alma mater). As far as his contract goes, he plans to be in Denver for 15 to 20 years!
 
Ironic that though tens of thousands of words have probably been written about Von Miller, no one ever ever ever mentions that he was suspended for six games two seasons ago for cheating on a drug test.

How many riders have won a GT after being suspended for PEDs? Offhand i can think of two, Basso and Contador, maybe there are more? But the point is, when they did win, no one forgot their suspensions. Miller's has been forgotten completely. Even Tom Brady, with his Deflategate which hasn't actually resulted in any suspension, gets off worse.

Speaking of Miller, interesting that he plays in Colorado, given that his name is a combination of the most famous female and male skiers in American history.

Newton on that fumble:

Newton also defended himself for not diving to try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter that eventually was recovered by the Broncos. Denver went on to score a touchdown to put the game out of reach. Newton said that he would have risked injury by diving, as it would have meant he would have had to twist his leg in an awkward direction.

"I didn't get the fumble,'' Newton said. "We can play tit for tat. I've seen numerous quarterbacks throw interceptions, and the effort afterwards ... they don't go. I don't dive on one fumble, because of the way my leg was, it could have been [contorted] in a way.

"We didn't lose that game because of that fumble. I can tell you that.''

Wow. He defends not trying to recover the fumble by arguing that other QBs give up on plays, too. If he was worried about injuring himself, fine, but don't bring in comparisons with other QBs. You said there's never been a QB like you before, remember, Cam?

And they didn't lose the game because of that fumble? If that's true, he's saying that given the ball and a one possession game, as it was at the time of the fumble, he couldn't drive the team for the winning score? The way Denver was playing, probably not, but admitting that is giving up even more than not going for the fumble.

I don't have to conform to anybody else's wants for me to do. I'm not that guy."

Well, you said you wanted to be a role model for kids. If you're a role model, then, yes, you do have to do some conforming. You're free to do your own thing, but then don't claim you're a role model. You can't have it both ways.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14745754/super-bowl-50-cam-newton-carolina-panthers-defends-walking-reporters
 
This whole discussion about diving after the fumble is moot imo. He got much closer to the ball by not diving.

Fumbles, fumble recoveries especially are just plain luck. It's where luck plays a factor in football. Fumble luck in the superbowl was definatly at Denver's side.I think they recovered 5 out of 7 (2 by newton, 2 by Tolbert, 2 by manning and 1 by Ward). Even more important is where the recovieres took place. Seems like denver had all the recoveries inside the 20 yard lines. The 2 fumbles by Cam which they recovered for 2 touchdowns (directly and indirectly) but also the fumble by Ward after the interception which would have given the panthers first and goal had they recovered. Panthers 2 recoveries where around midfield though. big difference in the game.
 
Merckx index said:
But the point is, when they did win, no one forgot their suspensions. Miller's has been forgotten completely. Even Tom Brady, with his Deflategate which hasn't actually resulted in any suspension, gets off worse.

Yeah not too dissimilar from the HGH scandal where all the talk was about Peyton but nobody cared Harrison, Matthews, Peppers and the whole Packer team was named aswell.
 
Merckx index said:
Ironic that though tens of thousands of words have probably been written about Von Miller, no one ever ever ever mentions that he was suspended for six games two seasons ago for cheating on a drug test.

How many riders have won a GT after being suspended for PEDs? Offhand i can think of two, Basso and Contador, maybe there are more? But the point is, when they did win, no one forgot their suspensions. Miller's has been forgotten completely. Even Tom Brady, with his Deflategate which hasn't actually resulted in any suspension, gets off worse.

Speaking of Miller, interesting that he plays in Colorado, given that his name is a combination of the most famous female and male skiers in American history.

Newton on that fumble:

Newton also defended himself for not diving to try to recover his fumble in the fourth quarter that eventually was recovered by the Broncos. Denver went on to score a touchdown to put the game out of reach. Newton said that he would have risked injury by diving, as it would have meant he would have had to twist his leg in an awkward direction.

"I didn't get the fumble,'' Newton said. "We can play tit for tat. I've seen numerous quarterbacks throw interceptions, and the effort afterwards ... they don't go. I don't dive on one fumble, because of the way my leg was, it could have been [contorted] in a way.

"We didn't lose that game because of that fumble. I can tell you that.''

Wow. He defends not trying to recover the fumble by arguing that other QBs give up on plays, too. If he was worried about injuring himself, fine, but don't bring in comparisons with other QBs. You said there's never been a QB like you before, remember, Cam?

And they didn't lose the game because of that fumble? If that's true, he's saying that given the ball and a one possession game, as it was at the time of the fumble, he couldn't drive the team for the winning score? The way Denver was playing, probably not, but admitting that is giving up even more than not going for the fumble.

I don't have to conform to anybody else's wants for me to do. I'm not that guy."

Well, you said you wanted to be a role model for kids. If you're a role model, then, yes, you do have to do some conforming. You're free to do your own thing, but then don't claim you're a role model. You can't have it both ways.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14745754/super-bowl-50-cam-newton-carolina-panthers-defends-walking-reporters
Could you please provide support for your assertions?

He was drinking and driving and kissing the bong everyday...I don't think that's recognized as performance enhancing. He tried to keep the THC hot test from getting to the NFL so he got six games of bench time (four games for THC, two for trying to get the tester to sub in someone else's urine).

He hasn't been forgotten, here is one of several articles that mentions his F ups:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/08/nfl-super-bowl-50-von-miller-mvp

Plus, he has talked about it at least three times since winning the SB.
 
The whole point about the fumble discussion is it shows lack of heart. That's not moot in this sport.

In another portion of that ESPN link provided by MerckxIndex, Cam redefines what he thinks a loser is (quote below). And by his definition, players like Roger Staubach, Jim Kelly, Brady, Manning, Wilson, and any other classy QB whose lost a playoff game is now a loser?
"I've been on record to say I'm a sore loser,'' Newton said Tuesday as players cleaned out their lockers. "Who likes to lose? You show me a good loser and I'm going to show you a loser."
Cam is A to Z, Tweedily-Dee-mented. I agree nobody likes losing, but there's losing classy and losing classless. Winning shows some of your character, losing shows all of it.
 
jmdirt said:
Could you please provide support for your assertions?

He was drinking and driving and kissing the bong everyday...I don't think that's recognized as performance enhancing. He tried to keep the THC hot test from getting to the NFL so he got six games of bench time (four games for THC, two for trying to get the tester to sub in someone else's urine).

Actually, your assertions are undocumented. He tested positive for THC in 2011, but apparently no one but Miller himself knows what he was taking in 2013. He didn't get suspended for testing positive, he was suspended for diluting his urine, and maybe getting one of the testers to help him, to avoid a positive test. Some of his suspension might have been related to the earlier THC positive, but that has no bearing at all on what he was taking when he "corrupted" the testing procedure.

He also has a TUE for Adderall, which for NFL and MLB players is like salbutamol for cyclists--a PED that players try to get away with using, with or without a TUE. Just as cyclists "suffer from" asthma at rates far above the normal population, so football and baseball players seem to "suffer from" ADHD.

He hasn't been forgotten, here is one of several articles that mentions his F ups:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/08/nfl-super-bowl-50-von-miller-mvp

Plus, he has talked about it at least three times since winning the SB.

OK, point noted. I haven't read every article on Miller, obviously. Most of them don't mention the suspension. Which I don't have a problem with, except, again, Brady gets Deflategate thrown at him all the time. I'm not a fan of Brady, and for the record, I think he did order those balls deflated. But I don't think doing that is worse than trying to avoid a drug positive.
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
The whole point about the fumble discussion is it shows lack of heart. That's not moot in this sport.

In another portion of that ESPN link provided by MerckxIndex, Cam redefines what he thinks a loser is (quote below). And by his definition, players like Roger Staubach, Jim Kelly, Brady, Manning, Wilson, and any other classy QB whose lost a playoff game is now a loser?
"I've been on record to say I'm a sore loser,'' Newton said Tuesday as players cleaned out their lockers. "Who likes to lose? You show me a good loser and I'm going to show you a loser."
Cam is A to Z, Tweedily-Dee-mented. I agree nobody likes losing, but there's losing classy and losing classless. Winning shows some of your character, losing shows all of it.
The first thing I thought when I read that was: how about the guy on the other side of the ball from you?! He shows class after a loss and he hold the record for wins (with LOTS of support from his teams). Cam will hopefully grow from this.
 
Merckx index said:
jmdirt said:
Could you please provide support for your assertions?

He was drinking and driving and kissing the bong everyday...I don't think that's recognized as performance enhancing. He tried to keep the THC hot test from getting to the NFL so he got six games of bench time (four games for THC, two for trying to get the tester to sub in someone else's urine).

Actually, your assertions are undocumented. He tested positive for THC in 2011, but apparently no one but Miller himself knows what he was taking in 2013. He didn't get suspended for testing positive, he was suspended for diluting his urine, and maybe getting one of the testers to help him, to avoid a positive test. Some of his suspension might have been related to the earlier THC positive, but that has no bearing at all on what he was taking when he "corrupted" the testing procedure.

He also has a TUE for Adderall, which for NFL and MLB players is like salbutamol for cyclists--a PED that players try to get away with using, with or without a TUE. Just as cyclists "suffer from" asthma at rates far above the normal population, so football and baseball players seem to "suffer from" ADHD.

He hasn't been forgotten, here is one of several articles that mentions his F ups:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/08/nfl-super-bowl-50-von-miller-mvp

Plus, he has talked about it at least three times since winning the SB.

OK, point noted. I haven't read every article on Miller, obviously. Most of them don't mention the suspension. Which I don't have a problem with, except, again, Brady gets Deflategate thrown at him all the time. I'm not a fan of Brady, and for the record, I think he did order those balls deflated. But I don't think doing that is worse than trying to avoid a drug positive.
I meant to reply to the TB part of your post too. I'm not sure why Brady has gotten pounded so hard. I'm not a Pats or TB 'fan', but I respect what they have done. I really don't care what the psi of the balls was, and as far as cheating goes, that's as minor as it gets (like smoking pot...not like using someone else's urine for a test). Yes, I know that someone will tell me that cheating s cheating.
TB does a radio spot on Monday nights that is really good, if you get a chance, check it out next season.
 
Merckx index said:
jmdirt said:
Could you please provide support for your assertions?

He was drinking and driving and kissing the bong everyday...I don't think that's recognized as performance enhancing. He tried to keep the THC hot test from getting to the NFL so he got six games of bench time (four games for THC, two for trying to get the tester to sub in someone else's urine).

Actually, your assertions are undocumented. He tested positive for THC in 2011, but apparently no one but Miller himself knows what he was taking in 2013. He didn't get suspended for testing positive, he was suspended for diluting his urine, and maybe getting one of the testers to help him, to avoid a positive test. Some of his suspension might have been related to the earlier THC positive, but that has no bearing at all on what he was taking when he "corrupted" the testing procedure.

He also has a TUE for Adderall, which for NFL and MLB players is like salbutamol for cyclists--a PED that players try to get away with using, with or without a TUE. Just as cyclists "suffer from" asthma at rates far above the normal population, so football and baseball players seem to "suffer from" ADHD.

He hasn't been forgotten, here is one of several articles that mentions his F ups:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/08/nfl-super-bowl-50-von-miller-mvp

Plus, he has talked about it at least three times since winning the SB.

OK, point noted. I haven't read every article on Miller, obviously. Most of them don't mention the suspension. Which I don't have a problem with, except, again, Brady gets Deflategate thrown at him all the time. I'm not a fan of Brady, and for the record, I think he did order those balls deflated. But I don't think doing that is worse than trying to avoid a drug positive.
He later admitted (to the Denver paper I think) that he vaped pot daily and didn't want to get busted. The NFL has a three tired system for substance abuse so 2011 put him on 1, 2013 counted as a missed test- put him on 2, and trying to cheat the test put him on 3. They gave him four games for step 2, and then added two games for cheating the test. That's based on my memory so you'll have to Google to make sure.

EDIT: I wonder if his DUI (s) had any impact on his "steps"?
 

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