National Football League

[Alpe d'Huez]

Look at me, going all cycling on a Football thread.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

For the moment, just a football reply.
So 9ers do actually PLAN to offer Kyle Shanahan a 6-year deal. Nothing signed yet though. Although some are saying the signing of Lynch as GM is shocking, he is a football guy and I have a feeling the union of Lynch and Shanny will be a good one. But will the owner mess it up?

Rex Ryan is joining the ESPN "NFL Sunday Countdown" show for one day only, that being the day of the Super Bowl. I'm really looking forward to it because I've always wanted to see him behind the Mic to see what he can do. If he shines and does not get another coaching offer this one day gig could be a stepping stone to other longer term offers. He has had other offers already with a number of other networks.
http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/01/30/Media/RexRyan.aspx?

 

[movingtarget]

For the moment, just a football reply.
So 9ers do actually PLAN to offer Kyle Shanahan a 6-year deal. Nothing signed yet though. Although some are saying the signing of Lynch as GM is shocking, he is a football guy and I have a feeling the union of Lynch and Shanny will be a good one. But will the owner mess it up?

Rex Ryan is joining the ESPN "NFL Sunday Countdown" show for one day only, that being the day of the Super Bowl. I'm really looking forward to it because I've always wanted to see him behind the Mic to see what he can do. If he shines and does not get another coaching offer this one day gig could be a stepping stone to other longer term offers. He has had other offers already with a number of other networks.
http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/01/30/Media/RexRyan.aspx?

Lynch seems to be a signing out of left field and sometimes those work. Shanahan has had a second interview with the 49ers but if the Falcons win the Super Bowl there will be more pressure from that organization to stay. But it seems that the HC job at the 49ers is his if he wants it. Paton from GB was favoured to get the GM job but that fell through and there was some bad info flying around about the guy from the Cardinals. It seems many at the Cardinals were only too happy to see him go and he left on bad terms if the gossip is to be believed. Only Larry Fitzgerald came out and said positive things about him it seems. Shanahan will want to lock in a long term contract and this time the 49ers won't have a choice after the Tomsula and Chip debacles and I'm sure Shanahan is aware of the 49ers habit of dumping people quickly. My guess is that they give him six seasons and then review the results after three. Their rebuild won't be short term anyway. This is his first attempt as an HC and many of them fail the first time, some people still see it as a gamble when there were more experienced options out there.

They have another problem also with the DC position as one has not been signed yet unless Shanahan has already linked to someone and it has not been made public. Tomsula has picked up a job at Washington as a DC assistant but Chip has not been signed anywhere as far as I know. Ryan seems to be one of those guys people either love or hate a bit like Chip in that regard.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

As to Mt. St. Helens - Have you ever ridden the road from Pine Creek Center to Windy Ridge? I like that ride, and area, a lot more than the Tour De Blast. A lot less traffic too. There was a ride there some 10 years ago, it had Gifford Pinchot in it's name I think. I never rode that specific ride, but have ridden Windy Ridge 3 times. Depending on the support (and legs) you could start anywhere form Pine Creek, Northwoods, Muddy Fork, or even if not feeling like an epic ride, skip Elk Pass, and just ride the final climb up NF-99 up the ride. Just spectacular views. You could also hit this ride from the north, leaving anywhere south of Randle.

There are also really nice open roads with great views near Mt. Adams. Goldendale, Trout Lake, etc. I imagine you know about these.

Of course, there's always Rainier. A buddy and I keep talking about a Rainier Super Epic one year. Starting at Longmire and riding past Paradise, all the way to Sunrise. We may get old before it happens, and a summer weekend would be dangerous with traffic. But that would have to be one of the most spectacular rides in the entire US.

I'm not sure about Rte 12, and Rte 410, between Yakima and Rainier, but I imagine those are great rides to do too.

There was a fund raiser ride from Pine Ck to Windy Ridge. I intended to ride it and showed up day of ride hoping to register there. They would not let me register day of for cripes sake I don't recall why. Since I could not use their pit stops and I was unprepared (not enough food/liquids) I missed out then, and have never been back. But I did the TDBlast 7 times, twice snowing at the higher elevations - like Andy Hampsten on the Gavia - HA! I'll say this about snow. Ascending is peaceful when snowing. Descending is another feeling - really dicey around corners on those same slushy slopes and the brakes just don't want to grip. That was the year I dropped one ski glove into a porta-potty poo hole on accident and fished it out to finish the ride. Wifey was not impressed.

Never ridden around the Adams, Goldendale areas, or the Columbia River Gorge for that matter. By car those are beautiful areas. Now Rte 12 and 410 I've ridden sections of but sections are too narrow with almost no shoulder along curvy, two-lane highway where I'd fear becoming some vehicle's hood ornament. There USED to be a Multiple Sclerosis 150-mile fundraiser ride (MS-150) from Yakima to Packwood over Rte 12 on day 1, and day 2 was the return to Yakima over the same roads. It was called the Yak to Pak and Back. The year I signed up to do it, figuring a big group ride might be a bit more safe as drivers would be more aware riders are on the road, the organizers changed the route to a much safer (and less intriguing, non-mountain ride) route from Yakima to Salmon la Sac (near Roslyn) and back. Organizers named it the Yak to Sac and Back.

Rainier has a ride called the RAMROD (Ride Around Mt Rainier One Day) put on by the Redmond Cycling Club. Did that once many years ago with a small group from work. EPIC. http://www.redmondcyclingclub.org/RAMROD/RAMROD.html

Seattle to Portland (STP) never intrigued me enough to give it a go. You ever try that one?

Ok so now you can ban use both for breaking the thread rules!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Never interested in STP. Too many people killed, or just hit by cars on that one.

RAMROD skips the climb to Sunrise, but yes, same area.

A friend road Tour de Blast one of the years there was high winds from the west. Cold up top coming down, no fun at all once you're off the descent into the headwind. Yes, I've heard of the rain/sleet/snow years.

 

[TheRossSeaParty]

RAMROD is pretty cool, but I always preferred driving to the park and doing a loop with Paradise and returning over Skate Creek.

Also, thanks for all the NFL talk on here. Much better then digging through sports media or listening to Seahawks radio out here in Seattle. This forum plus the NFL posting highlight packages of all games on YouTube has finally turned me into a Football fan.

Rooting for Pats in the Super Bowl and I think their defense might give them the edge they need to beat the Falcons. For some reason I've always like the Pats (did live in Boston when they won in... 2006?), and it would be cool to see Bellichek/Brady get that 5th ring. Pretty amazing streak. If this happens and Boonen gets Roubaix #5 then 2017 will make me a happy sports fan.

Also, how would Roubaix #5 compare to SB #5 in terms of sporting achievement?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I had not heard about the STP deaths etc, but over here not really paying attention to that ride. Some friends tried to coerce me into doing the STP in one day by joining them in a small group, but I went out on one training ride with them and decided against it. One of their group was really erratic and could not hold a pace. He was all over in the paceline; forward, backward, sideways. I really had to be alert to avert disaster several times. Guess what. That year he crashed out of the STP by clipping one of his mates wheels.

As for the TDB, I did not mind the headwind on the descents. It was the freak hog cross winds coming out of road cuts that I was careful about. Coming onto the Cow Creek bridge, which towers above the valley floor, there could be severe cross winds as you leave the road cut and enter the span.

Thanks both of you for the tips on the other rides.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Also, thanks for all the NFL talk on here. Much better then digging through sports media or listening to Seahawks radio out here in Seattle. This forum plus the NFL posting highlight packages of all games on YouTube has finally turned me into a Football fan.

Please. Don't tell me you listen to the garbage on the ESPN 710's "Danny, Dave, and Moore" show! Bar none the worst show on earth. Now if you listen to Brock and Salk, or John Clayton, that's good. Or maybe (~~) Bob & Groz. But back to the DDM show, Dave Wyman, being an ex-NFL player for several good years in the late 80's, he should know better. But he's just too old school for me.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Also, how would Roubaix #5 compare to SB #5 in terms of sporting achievement?

In Belgium, or the US?!

Well, no one has won five Roubaix, but only one NFL player has five SB rings, Charles Haley. Several players have four (Brady, for example). One team has six SB rings, the Steelers. One NFL staffer has seven rings, Neal Dahlen. Belicheck actually has six, as he won two as an assistant with the Giants. Tom Flores has four, one as a player, one as an assistant, and two as a head coach (and he's still not in the Hall of Fame, for some stupid reason).

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Anyone following Financial Mess of the Raiders Las Vegas Stadium plan? I wonder if this is going to kill their move to Vegas.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yes, Sheldon Adelson took his ball, and went home. Almost funny reading about the pouting.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/30/las-vegas-raiders-stadium-sheldon-adelson-withdraws-investment

I'm left to ask the question, why does an NFL team, especially in a small market, need to play in a $1.7b stadium? If the team (mostly Mark Davis) is willing to spend up to $500m, sell minority ownership for maybe $100m, and the NFL will pony up to $300m, and the city came up with a way to get another $100m in taxes, bonds, etc, that would be a $1b stadium. That's more than double the cost of University of Phoenix stadium built a scant 10 years ago in Arizona. If you look at Raymond James Stadium, where Tampa plays, an average stadium, it's 19 years old, still in pretty decent shape, and cost a scant $194m. You'd have to think, even with Davis saving $100m off his fortune, they could still build a $700m stadium, making it the 5th most expensive in the NFL, not sell part of the ownership, and not cost the tax payers any money.

In case you weren't sure, inflation has been pretty low for the last two decades.

Why on earth do the Raiders need to have the most expensive stadium in US history to play in?

http://www.stadiumsofprofootball.com/comparisons/

 

[TheRossSeaParty]

Also, how would Roubaix #5 compare to SB #5 in terms of sporting achievement?

In Belgium, or the US?!

Well, no one has won five Roubaix, but only one NFL player has five SB rings, Charles Haley. Several players have four (Brady, for example). One team has six SB rings, the Steelers. One NFL staffer has seven rings, Neal Dahlen. Belicheck actually has six, as he won two as an assistant with the Giants. Tom Flores has four, one as a player, one as an assistant, and two as a head coach (and he's still not in the Hall of Fame, for some stupid reason).

Not so much from a fans perspective, but just the rarity of the achievement and all the variables that go into it. I know it is hard to compare sports, but when I talk to my non cycling friends about cycling it is nice to be able to say: "Winning X race is similar to winning X title".

Interesting to see the non players with rings. Does this mean Lefevre is the all time P-R great!?

As far as Seahawks radio (sorry not sure how to do multiple quotes), I just mean Seattle talk radio in general. It's non stop Seahawks chatter Thurs-Mon during the season. Makes me support the team less because of the ridiculous fandom in the city. I want to know what's going on with Bertha, and it's always "Player X had his hat on backwards, what does this mean for the Seahawks chances!?"

 

[BullsFan22]

Also, how would Roubaix #5 compare to SB #5 in terms of sporting achievement?

In Belgium, or the US?!

Well, no one has won five Roubaix, but only one NFL player has five SB rings, Charles Haley. Several players have four (Brady, for example). One team has six SB rings, the Steelers. One NFL staffer has seven rings, Neal Dahlen. Belicheck actually has six, as he won two as an assistant with the Giants. Tom Flores has four, one as a player, one as an assistant, and two as a head coach (and he's still not in the Hall of Fame, for some stupid reason).

Not so much from a fans perspective, but just the rarity of the achievement and all the variables that go into it. I know it is hard to compare sports, but when I talk to my non cycling friends about cycling it is nice to be able to say: "Winning X race is similar to winning X title".

Interesting to see the non players with rings. Does this mean Lefevre is the all time P-R great!?

As far as Seahawks radio (sorry not sure how to do multiple quotes), I just mean Seattle talk radio in general. It's non stop Seahawks chatter Thurs-Mon during the season. Makes me support the team less because of the ridiculous fandom in the city. I want to know what's going on with Bertha, and it's always "Player X had his hat on backwards, what does this mean for the Seahawks chances!?"

I don't live in Seattle so maybe I am wrong, but I think the 'fandom' is probably the Seahawks being A.) A good football team that will contend for the SB for at least another few years and B.) Other pro teams either being mediocre or bad (Mariners). The Sonics left in 2008 (and in a not so good way) so less attention for the NBA (understandable). All of this, I am guessing, means more attention for the Seahawks. I also think if other cities were in a similar situation, you'd see the same thing.

 

[leftover pie]

really excited by this year's SB. . too close to call for mine.

The game starts at 730AM here so I've got a nice breakfast of flapjacks with smoked bacon & maple syrup lined up.

and maybe a few suitable breakfast beers, last year we went with Brooklyn Brewery and some Sierra Nevadas.

This year i'm thinking of going Rogue.

Once again it's been a great year following the league via CyclingNews, as far as internet forums go this thread is a shining light in the darkness, all the analysis without the petty squabbling.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

really excited by this year's SB. . too close to call for mine.

The game starts at 730AM here so I've got a nice breakfast of flapjacks with smoked bacon & maple syrup lined up.

and maybe a few suitable breakfast beers, last year we went with Brooklyn Brewery and some Sierra Nevadas.

This year i'm thinking of going Rogue.

Once again it's been a great year following the league via CyclingNews, as far as internet forums go this thread is a shining light in the darkness, all the analysis without the petty squabbling.

Yeah this is a good thread to be involved with I agree. There is no trolling and no flame outs..............yet ! I think the old days were different before I started taking notice from what I have read. Go on the political threads that's always fun not ! The pro cycling threads are generally pretty good as well most of the time. Looking forward to the game but I hope the Falcons can do it but I am not emotionally invested in either team so may the best team win ! I am a 49ers fan and always had a soft spot for the long suffering Bills from many years ago when I first started watching the game.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Yes, Sheldon Adelson took his ball, and went home. Almost funny reading about the pouting.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/30/las-vegas-raiders-stadium-sheldon-adelson-withdraws-investment

I'm left to ask the question, why does an NFL team, especially in a small market, need to play in a $1.7b stadium? If the team (mostly Mark Davis) is willing to spend up to $500m, sell minority ownership for maybe $100m, and the NFL will pony up to $300m, and the city came up with a way to get another $100m in taxes, bonds, etc, that would be a $1b stadium. That's more than double the cost of University of Phoenix stadium built a scant 10 years ago in Arizona. If you look at Raymond James Stadium, where Tampa plays, an average stadium, it's 19 years old, still in pretty decent shape, and cost a scant $194m. You'd have to think, even with Davis saving $100m off his fortune, they could still build a $700m stadium, making it the 5th most expensive in the NFL, not sell part of the ownership, and not cost the tax payers any money.

In case you weren't sure, inflation has been pretty low for the last two decades.

Why on earth do the Raiders need to have the most expensive stadium in US history to play in?

http://www.stadiumsofprofootball.com/comparisons/

I think the Raiders going to Las Vegas is even sillier than the Chargers going to LA. They are much better off spending some money on the existing stadium in the short term or waiting for the right deal to come along and do their best to keep the team where it is already. They made the playoffs and want to move ? It makes no sense as the team is on the improve and they have a devoted local fan base. Even the Rams may rue their move to LA. Maybe St Louis had run it's course or maybe the Rams just needed to make some changes. A lot of St Louis fans and business owners seemed to be pretty devastated with the team moving to LA. I think I read that both the Chargers and the Rams had falling attendances but that seems to be across the NFL in general including TV viewing which dropped again this year. This seems to be more about the NFL product not so much the teams themselves.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

really excited by this year's SB. . too close to call for mine.

The game starts at 730AM here so I've got a nice breakfast of flapjacks with smoked bacon & maple syrup lined up.

and maybe a few suitable breakfast beers, last year we went with Brooklyn Brewery and some Sierra Nevadas.

This year i'm thinking of going Rogue.

Once again it's been a great year following the league via CyclingNews, as far as internet forums go this thread is a shining light in the darkness, all the analysis without the petty squabbling.

Yeah this is a good thread to be involved with I agree. There is no trolling and no flame outs..............yet ! I think the old days were different before I started taking notice from what I have read. Go on the political threads that's always fun not ! The pro cycling threads are generally pretty good as well most of the time. Looking forward to the game but I hope the Falcons can do it but I am not emotionally invested in either team so may the best team win ! I am a 49ers fan and always had a soft spot for the long suffering Bills from many years ago when I first started watching the game.

+1 on this thread - it's reawakened my interest in nfl. My team gets a mention here every now and then, so it's interesting to see different perspectives. It's neigh on impossible to watch a game here due to timezones, so it's a sneaky 'gamecenter' on the pc at work...

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

really excited by this year's SB. . too close to call for mine.

The game starts at 730AM here so I've got a nice breakfast of flapjacks with smoked bacon & maple syrup lined up.

and maybe a few suitable breakfast beers, last year we went with Brooklyn Brewery and some Sierra Nevadas.

This year i'm thinking of going Rogue.

Once again it's been a great year following the league via CyclingNews, as far as internet forums go this thread is a shining light in the darkness, all the analysis without the petty squabbling.

Yeah this is a good thread to be involved with I agree. There is no trolling and no flame outs..............yet ! I think the old days were different before I started taking notice from what I have read. Go on the political threads that's always fun not ! The pro cycling threads are generally pretty good as well most of the time. Looking forward to the game but I hope the Falcons can do it but I am not emotionally invested in either team so may the best team win ! I am a 49ers fan and always had a soft spot for the long suffering Bills from many years ago when I first started watching the game.

I agree...this NFL thread is excellent , which is unusual considering so many pro football sites can get fairly hostile and antagonistic with the "my team is better than your team" montra and all that. I initially starting posting on The Clinic, but backed-off because if you don't subscribe to their "every top pro rider is doped" philosophy, you're ganged-up on like a helpless animal in a river of Piranhas...and who needs that. And FWIW, I think the political threads are insane...like the old saying goes; "never talk about religion or politics" as it invariably makes people go ballistic. Lol.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

really excited by this year's SB. . too close to call for mine.

The game starts at 730AM here so I've got a nice breakfast of flapjacks with smoked bacon & maple syrup lined up.

and maybe a few suitable breakfast beers, last year we went with Brooklyn Brewery and some Sierra Nevadas.

This year i'm thinking of going Rogue.

Once again it's been a great year following the league via CyclingNews, as far as internet forums go this thread is a shining light in the darkness, all the analysis without the petty squabbling.

Yeah this is a good thread to be involved with I agree. There is no trolling and no flame outs..............yet ! I think the old days were different before I started taking notice from what I have read. Go on the political threads that's always fun not ! The pro cycling threads are generally pretty good as well most of the time. Looking forward to the game but I hope the Falcons can do it but I am not emotionally invested in either team so may the best team win ! I am a 49ers fan and always had a soft spot for the long suffering Bills from many years ago when I first started watching the game.

I agree...this NFL thread is excellent , which is unusual considering so many pro football sites can get fairly hostile and antagonistic with the "my team is better than your team" montra and all that. I initially starting posting on The Clinic, but backed-off because if you don't subscribe to their "every top pro rider is doped" philosophy, you're ganged-up on like a helpless animal in a river of Piranhas...and who needs that. And FWIW, I think the political threads are insane...like the old saying goes; "never talk about religion or politics" as it invariably makes people go ballistic. Lol.

Yeah I have noticed that there is a few posters that like to think they dominate the political threads and they are always denigrating the views of others. Sometimes I will go in and post something and wait for the sharks to start circling ! As for the clinic that is a bit better but not much, once again there seems to be a pecking order of sorts and I just can't be bothered with that nonsense. Actually the boxing thread is not a bad one but it's not a very busy thread unless there is a big fight on the horizon. But for the most part I will stick to this one and the pro cycling topics.

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Yes, Sheldon Adelson took his ball, and went home. Almost funny reading about the pouting.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/30/las-vegas-raiders-stadium-sheldon-adelson-withdraws-investment

I'm left to ask the question, why does an NFL team, especially in a small market, need to play in a $1.7b stadium? If the team (mostly Mark Davis) is willing to spend up to $500m, sell minority ownership for maybe $100m, and the NFL will pony up to $300m, and the city came up with a way to get another $100m in taxes, bonds, etc, that would be a $1b stadium. That's more than double the cost of University of Phoenix stadium built a scant 10 years ago in Arizona. If you look at Raymond James Stadium, where Tampa plays, an average stadium, it's 19 years old, still in pretty decent shape, and cost a scant $194m. You'd have to think, even with Davis saving $100m off his fortune, they could still build a $700m stadium, making it the 5th most expensive in the NFL, not sell part of the ownership, and not cost the tax payers any money.

In case you weren't sure, inflation has been pretty low for the last two decades.

Why on earth do the Raiders need to have the most expensive stadium in US history to play in?

http://www.stadiumsofprofootball.com/comparisons/

I think the Raiders going to Las Vegas is even sillier than the Chargers going to LA. They are much better off spending some money on the existing stadium in the short term or waiting for the right deal to come along and do their best to keep the team where it is already. They made the playoffs and want to move ? It makes no sense as the team is on the improve and they have a devoted local fan base. Even the Rams may rue their move to LA. Maybe St Louis had run it's course or maybe the Rams just needed to make some changes. A lot of St Louis fans and business owners seemed to be pretty devastated with the team moving to LA. I think I read that both the Chargers and the Rams had falling attendances but that seems to be across the NFL in general including TV viewing which dropped again this year. This seems to be more about the NFL product not so much the teams themselves.

I agree...and I think Davis should do everything possible to keep the Raiders in Oakland where they belong. However, they do have stadium issues as the Raiders & Athletics are the only remaining NFL/MLB franchises to share a venue (Oakland - Alameda County Coliseum). And if you've seen a Raider game in September, the field has the dirt portion of the baseball infield present on about a third of the football field, which looks a little antiquated these days. Perhaps, Davis could get financial support to build a modest, less expensive, open-air stadium (without all the bells & whistles, lol) to appease the commissioner, but keep Raider Nation in Oakland.

 

[movingtarget]

The future of football for kids ?

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgLDIhRzlN5duZmlNU9ejOyhr8gxzoawjl5A9JMAu8kCE+dBhG0lXq6MSEXLsq5xAgWsPXaQ3VSZGassZrR0MW+JiCaYduwp3uIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwlx0Ozh2n61XglZKpR3ePlOG&campaign_id=129&instance_id=91253&segment_id=102654&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

The future of football for kids ?

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgLDIhRzlN5duZmlNU9ejOyhr8gxzoawjl5A9JMAu8kCE+dBhG0lXq6MSEXLsq5xAgWsPXaQ3VSZGassZrR0MW+JiCaYduwp3uIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwlx0Ozh2n61XglZKpR3ePlOG&campaign_id=129&instance_id=91253&segment_id=102654&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

Understandably, youth football participation has diminished. And let's face it, the way the game of football is played has GOT to change. If it does not, the most important negative thing is players will continue to get CTE. And Roger Goodell better be paying attention because diminished youth turnout could mean that in 20 years the NFL simply collapses as lack of new young players also diminishes. But because Roger is so stupid and arrogant he probably has not thought of that after affect. Roger has got to go now (but that's a rabbit trail to avoid for me for now). So, back to the point. Good for the USA Football organization and those making changes already at the youth level.

As youth football changes are being prepared, the need for change is punctuated by the recent finding (Jan 2017) that former NFL running back Mel Farr died at age 70 in August 2015 from a massive heart attack due to undiagnosed high blood pressure. But he began suffering from CTE symptoms as early as age 60, according to his daughter. After his death, his brain and spinal cord were donated to Boston University School of Medicine, and it was discovered he had stage 3 CTE (stage 4 is what Mike Webster and Junior Seau had). Here are a couple links on the rest of his story (the cause of death in the two reports are conflicting, the ESPN interview with daughter and son are worth a listen):
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...concussion-related-disease-seen-in-former-nfl
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...t-lions-rb-mel-farr-had-stage-3-cte-died-2015

Finally, there is now way in H3LL kids need to start playing tackle football at age 4 under the old style of play. Yeah, they're not as big, not as strong, not as fast, and forces of impact are not as great. But the way it has traditionally been played, CHRONIC forces are just as worrisome, especially for young developing brains. So hats off to U.S.A. Football (national governing body for amateur football), but that is just a starting point. More will need to change at the adult level.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

The future of football for kids ?

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgLDIhRzlN5duZmlNU9ejOyhr8gxzoawjl5A9JMAu8kCE+dBhG0lXq6MSEXLsq5xAgWsPXaQ3VSZGassZrR0MW+JiCaYduwp3uIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwlx0Ozh2n61XglZKpR3ePlOG&campaign_id=129&instance_id=91253&segment_id=102654&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

Understandably, youth football participation has diminished. And let's face it, the way the game of football is played has GOT to change. If it does not, the most important negative thing is players will continue to get CTE. And Roger Goodell better be paying attention because diminished youth turnout could mean that in 20 years the NFL simply collapses as lack of new young players also diminishes. But because Roger is so stupid and arrogant he probably has not thought of that after affect. Roger has got to go now (but that's a rabbit trail to avoid for me for now). So, back to the point. Good for the USA Football organization and those making changes already at the youth level.

As youth football changes are being prepared, the need for change is punctuated by the recent finding (Jan 2017) that former NFL running back Mel Farr died at age 70 in August 2015 from a massive heart attack due to undiagnosed high blood pressure. But he began suffering from CTE symptoms as early as age 60, according to his daughter. After his death, his brain and spinal cord were donated to Boston University School of Medicine, and it was discovered he had stage 3 CTE (stage 4 is what Mike Webster and Junior Seau had). Here are a couple links on the rest of his story (the cause of death in the two reports are conflicting, the ESPN interview with daughter and son are worth a listen):
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...concussion-related-disease-seen-in-former-nfl
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...t-lions-rb-mel-farr-had-stage-3-cte-died-2015

Finally, there is now way in H3LL kids need to start playing tackle football at age 4 under the old style of play. Yeah, they're not as big, not as strong, not as fast, and forces of impact are not as great. But the way it has traditionally been played, CHRONIC forces are just as worrisome, especially for young developing brains. So hats off to U.S.A. Football (national governing body for amateur football), but that is just a starting point. More will need to change at the adult level.

It might be just a matter of time for kick and punt returns in the NFL which will take some of the excitement from the game for sure but it will lessen high impact injuries. The only other thing they could do would be to reduce the amount of defenders left on the field which would increase the chances of a TD but still not mean they may not be hit hard if they are tackled. There are plenty of rule changes they could consider and a sport like Rugby League has had many changes over the years. To remove all kick returns from the game I think will definitely make it less of a spectacle but it could happen especially if the NFL gets embroiled in lawsuits and compensation which is going to happen anyway to a certain extent. If they do that they may have to make changes to the passing game as well to make it a bit more open. Too much defense won't be healthy for the players either. Kick returns do play a part in concussion injuries and broken legs from time to time but often the really bad career threatening leg injuries are simple things just from falling awkwardly or being twisted in a tackle or someone falling onto a players leg and I don't think there is a lot that can be done about that.

 

[leftover pie]

Re:

The future of football for kids ?

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgLDIhRzlN5duZmlNU9ejOyhr8gxzoawjl5A9JMAu8kCE+dBhG0lXq6MSEXLsq5xAgWsPXaQ3VSZGassZrR0MW+JiCaYduwp3uIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwlx0Ozh2n61XglZKpR3ePlOG&campaign_id=129&instance_id=91253&segment_id=102654&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

I can imagine there will be huge resistance to these changes, mostly from people who are no longer actually playing the game and aren't in any danger of developing long term brain injuries.

speaking as a parent there is no way I'd let my son or daughter play the game (over here in aus we have junior leagues but I am suspect of there being adequate checks in place limiting the amount of contact at training and during games, plus you have younger kids playing with older kids, a recipe for a great mis-match in sizes between players) - plus I want my son to play aussie rules

I think kids could get just as much out of a game that doesn't involve violent collisions, they can still learn about teamwork, following a plan, camaraderie, all the good things that you can get out of sport, no need for them to get their bell rung.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

The future of football for kids ?

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgLDIhRzlN5duZmlNU9ejOyhr8gxzoawjl5A9JMAu8kCE+dBhG0lXq6MSEXLsq5xAgWsPXaQ3VSZGassZrR0MW+JiCaYduwp3uIzEyEVvJwFvMViDzmFNB2KpsaR+VPFqNKH7pilVGwlx0Ozh2n61XglZKpR3ePlOG&campaign_id=129&instance_id=91253&segment_id=102654&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

Understandably, youth football participation has diminished. And let's face it, the way the game of football is played has GOT to change. If it does not, the most important negative thing is players will continue to get CTE. And Roger Goodell better be paying attention because diminished youth turnout could mean that in 20 years the NFL simply collapses as lack of new young players also diminishes. But because Roger is so stupid and arrogant he probably has not thought of that after affect. Roger has got to go now (but that's a rabbit trail to avoid for me for now). So, back to the point. Good for the USA Football organization and those making changes already at the youth level.

As youth football changes are being prepared, the need for change is punctuated by the recent finding (Jan 2017) that former NFL running back Mel Farr died at age 70 in August 2015 from a massive heart attack due to undiagnosed high blood pressure. But he began suffering from CTE symptoms as early as age 60, according to his daughter. After his death, his brain and spinal cord were donated to Boston University School of Medicine, and it was discovered he had stage 3 CTE (stage 4 is what Mike Webster and Junior Seau had). Here are a couple links on the rest of his story (the cause of death in the two reports are conflicting, the ESPN interview with daughter and son are worth a listen):
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...concussion-related-disease-seen-in-former-nfl
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...t-lions-rb-mel-farr-had-stage-3-cte-died-2015

Finally, there is now way in H3LL kids need to start playing tackle football at age 4 under the old style of play. Yeah, they're not as big, not as strong, not as fast, and forces of impact are not as great. But the way it has traditionally been played, CHRONIC forces are just as worrisome, especially for young developing brains. So hats off to U.S.A. Football (national governing body for amateur football), but that is just a starting point. More will need to change at the adult level.

It might be just a matter of time for kick and punt returns in the NFL which will take some of the excitement from the game for sure but it will lessen high impact injuries. The only other thing they could do would be to reduce the amount of defenders left on the field which would increase the chances of a TD but still not mean they may not be hit hard if they are tackled. There are plenty of rule changes they could consider and a sport like Rugby League has had many changes over the years. To remove all kick returns from the game I think will definitely make it less of a spectacle but it could happen especially if the NFL gets embroiled in lawsuits and compensation which is going to happen anyway to a certain extent. If they do that they may have to make changes to the passing game as well to make it a bit more open. Too much defense won't be healthy for the players either. Kick returns do play a part in concussion injuries and broken legs from time to time but often the really bad career threatening leg injuries are simple things just from falling awkwardly or being twisted in a tackle or someone falling onto a players leg and I don't think there is a lot that can be done about that.

Whatever the NFL can do to minimize the high impact hits on kickoffs and returns would be a help. Or to reduce the high impact hits by skill position players (WRs, RBs, and those doing the tackling), which is an area that has improved at all levels (youth, HS, NCAA and NFL) by teaching better tackling techniques.

But there will need to be more focus on changes that affect the linemen who take chronic hits every play. The list of former offensive or defensive linemen who have been CTE-confirmed post-mortem: Mike Webster, Justin Strzelczyk, Bubba Smith, Forrest Blue, Lou Creekmur, Shane Dronett, Terry Long, Tom McHale, Ralph Wenzel.

Of course, there have been quite a few more skill players who have been CTE-confirmed post-mortem. They are all sad cases, but one that strikes me is Tyler Sash, who was a 6th round pick in 2011 and who just played two years in the NFL (2011-2012). Tyler died in September of 2015 from drug toxicity, but testing performed on his brain confirmed he was suffering from Stage 2 CTE.