Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[peterfin]

After making a ton of excuses.

From my perspective, there is an important distinction between clearly stating “no excuses” and providing several justifications before ultimately concluding with “no excuses.”

He started by saying that there are no excuses, that he was not good enough. He then gave a fair assessment of how he felt that day. What's wrong with that? What do you want him to say? Just say "No excuses. I am bad." and than shut up? He says what he thinks out loud, always, which is what the media wants to hear also. It's part of what makes him who he is

 

[MariaB]

He started by saying that there are no excuses, that he was not good enough. He then gave a fair assessment of how he felt that day. What's wrong with that? What do you want him to say? Just say "No excuses. I am bad." and than shut up? He says what he thinks out loud, always, which is what the media wants to hear also. It's part of what makes him who he is

Yeah, we have to agree to disagree.

Like I said, full of excuses, not good enough.

 

[ashhutch1997]

All I'm going to see before I leave this subject, is that when the cameras cut to Remco getting dropped, I wasn't shocked at all. These collapses against the top riders aren't new. I like Remco for what it's worth, one of the all time great time trailists and a great one day rider, but as a GC rider, he's massively overatted and his record proves it.

 

[MariaB]

All I'm going to see before I leave this subject, is that when the cameras cut to Remco getting dropped, I wasn't shocked at all. These collapses against the top riders aren't new. I like Remco for what it's worth, one of the all time great time trailists and a great one day rider, but as a GC rider, he's massively overatted and his record proves it.

Yeah, this is it.

An all time great TT.

Massive overrated as a GC rider.

 

[Divergence]

Regarding his weight. There is no such thing as spring classics weight vs TdF weight. If he has the discipline to be at his 2022 Vuelta weight he would be a much better rider overall. However, the way he is now, he can only win races where there is little to no climbing, i.e., nothing of the sort of races he is proclaiming he wants to win.

 

[Red Rick]

Too much is said about weight, there's no way that alone explains dropping 2 minutes because it's like 3% steeper than ideal

 

[Divergence]

Too much is said about weight, there's no way that alone explains dropping 2 minutes because it's like 3% steeper than ideal

Sure today it appears to have been an extremely bad for him. But this does not change the fact that he is simply overweight if he wants to be competitive on steeper slopes

 

[Berniece]

Massive overrated as a GC rider.

Calling a Vuelta winner and TDF podium finisher overrated as GC rider…

 

[Breh]

Calling a Vuelta winner and TDF podium finisher overrated as GC rider…

We could include his palmares in the 7 big 1week races and it still wouldn't move the needle for someone earning over 5million euros a year.

Massively overrated as a GC rider.

 

[Berniece]

We could include his palmares in the 7 big 1week races and it still wouldn't move the needle for someone earning over 5million euros a year.

Massively overrated as a GC rider.

Sure

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I have to agree he is overrated, with the caveat that his ceiling is not overrated. He can be in the tier below Pogacar and Vingegaard with Roglic, Almeida, and Lipowitz, and he has the potential to be better, but his palmares and consistency is more akin to Carapaz or Hindley than Roglic, much less Pogacar. If he’s who he thinks he is, he needs to win stage races much more frequently than he does.

 

[MariaB]

Calling a Vuelta winner and TDF podium finisher overrated as GC rider…

Even Simon Yates won the Vuelta (and I love Simon).

He is a very good GC rider, just like Simon, but not on the level of the greats.

So yes, very overrated IMHO.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I feel like there is some part of Remco's physiological makeup that keeps him from being a natural climber. Yes he has one of the biggest engines in cycling which when combined with his aero dart body and the nature of the effort required makes him the preeminent time trialist of this generation, but things have to go exactly right for him to exist on the climbs with top GC riders. Had he not responded to Tiberi and the others who went off early but rather followed Del Toro when he came cruising through the front group he would have been much better off today. Del Toro still would have left him when he finally made his big acceleration, but he would have left him with riders like Gee and Nordhagen and Van Wilder who he can follow from that point to the finish. But I digress. The point is, Remco cannot make probing accelerations and then recover like climbers can and he can't mask a bad day (or even a not great day) like climbers can. I don't believe he will ever win the Tour unless the Tour returns to the Indurain era course profiles. But he can win a lot of other stuff if he doesn't keep trying to focus on the Tour.

 

[meat puppet]

Climbing is a shorthand for low crank inertia situations. Inertia affects the way power is generated during the pedal stroke and also the amplitude and distribution of peak forces etc. Evenepoel seems to really excel during high inertia scenarios such as fast flat time trials, but once in a while the low inertia efforts become his kryptonite. Quite curious actually.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I agree but does it really matter that it is easier for Pog?

I honestly think Remco can and will win all five monuments and all grand tours the next five years. He really should be able to do that looking at his talent compared to his non-pog competitors.

Of all the things that will never happen, this will never happen the most.

 

[rghysens]

Too much is said about weight, there's no way that alone explains dropping 2 minutes because it's like 3% steeper than ideal

A 7km @ 12% climb is about 7-8% steeper than ideal for Evenepoel.

 

[Berniece]

Even Simon Yates won the Vuelta (and I love Simon).

He is a very good GC rider, just like Simon, but not on the level of the greats.

So yes, very overrated IMHO.

Who is saying Evenepoel is one of the best GC riders ever?

 

[Roku]

The Evenepoel case is very simple - He is the best Time Triallist in the world, second best rider for mid - mountain parcours (close to Pogi and miles ahead of everyone else) and "average" for a GC rider on the high mountains.

He demolishes everyone else except Pogi in shorter climbs and is able to put lots of time - then people expect him to be on par with the best bar Pogacar and Vingegaard on monster climbs yet he is consistently unable to do so. When he looks more consistent on high mountains he sometimes has this meltdown that puts him out the GC.

 

[Red Rick]

The Evenepoel case is very simple - He is the best Time Triallist in the world, second best rider for mid - mountain parcours (close to Pogi and miles ahead of everyone else) and "average" for a GC rider on the high mountains.

He demolishes everyone else except Pogi in shorter climbs and is able to put lots of time - then people expect him to be on par with the best bar Pogacar and Vingegaard on monster climbs yet he is consistently unable to do so. When he looks more consistent on high mountains he sometimes has this meltdown that puts him out the GC.

This is vastly overrating him on short/mid climbs. There's a reason he hasn't won races like Paris Nice, Tirreno or Itzulia.

 

[theyoungest]

This is vastly overrating him on short/mid climbs. There's a reason he hasn't won races like Paris Nice, Tirreno or Itzulia.

Actually the last WT stage race he won was UAE... 3 years ago. For someone who's constantly touted as the great challenger for Pogacar, that's not very impressive. He's not even able to win when Pogi or Vingegaard aren't there.

If you just look at him on a climb like yesterday, you know that his body limits him. And that's okay, you can't do everything. He's not fat, as some would suggest, but he's too stocky to be a proper climber. Roglic has a similar physique but I would guess he's still quite a bit lighter than Remco.

 

[Pozzovivo]

I feel like there is some part of Remco's physiological makeup that keeps him from being a natural climber. Yes he has one of the biggest engines in cycling which when combined with his aero dart body and the nature of the effort required makes him the preeminent time trialist of this generation, but things have to go exactly right for him to exist on the climbs with top GC riders. Had he not responded to Tiberi and the others who went off early but rather followed Del Toro when he came cruising through the front group he would have been much better off today. Del Toro still would have left him when he finally made his big acceleration, but he would have left him with riders like Gee and Nordhagen and Van Wilder who he can follow from that point to the finish. But I digress. The point is, Remco cannot make probing accelerations and then recover like climbers can and he can't mask a bad day (or even a not great day) like climbers can. I don't believe he will ever win the Tour unless the Tour returns to the Indurain era course profiles. But he can win a lot of other stuff if he doesn't keep trying to focus on the Tour.

Agree in general but for the Tour part. He can and will win the Tour. JV and Pog aren't for ever (thankfully). He has by far the third highest ceiling of any GC rider right now. History shows it's possible. The parcour is irrelevant.

 

[AmRacer]

Agree in general but for the Tour part. He can and will win the Tour. JV and Pog aren't for ever (thankfully). He has by far the third highest ceiling of any GC rider right now. History shows it's possible. The parcour is irrelevant.

Every rider can win, but most won't. I don't think Remco will ever win the Tour.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Every rider can win, but most won't. I don't think Remco will ever win the Tour.

If you're only making a semantic point then why even bother?

As anyone who reads it understand, there are some riders who conceivably can win the tour, like the bookmakers third favorite(!) Remco Evenepoel, and 4th Lipowitz/Del Toro, and there are riders who actually CAN'T win the tour like Harm Vanhoucke or Xandro Meurisse.

I know many people don't think he will win the tour, but am convinced that he will. And when he does - me and the rest of the remco crew will remember what you and all the others said when you starrt pretending that you saw it coming

 

[AmRacer]

If you're only making a semantic point then why even bother?

As anyone who reads it understand, there are some riders who conceivably can win the tour, like the bookmakers third favorite(!) Remco Evenepoel, and 4th Lipowitz/Del Toro, and there are riders who actually CAN'T win the tour like Harm Vanhoucke or Xandro Meurisse.

I know many people don't think he will win the tour, but am convinced that he will. And when he does - me and the rest of the remco crew will remember what you and all the others said when you starrt pretending that you saw it coming

You did it, so I answered in kind. We will remember you when Remco retires without winning the Tour.

 

[Berniece]

If you just look at him on a climb like yesterday, you know that his body limits him. And that's okay, you can't do everything. He's not fat, as some would suggest, but he's too stocky to be a proper climber. Roglic has a similar physique but I would guess he's still quite a bit lighter than Remco.

Then make sure you work on that physique from the start of the season. It's like they didn't use any of the knowledge they got from SOQ, and decided to start fresh. Why not reduce the amount of muscles this season already? Why waste another one by thinking that just increasing his threshold is enough for some races when the goal is to win TDF?