National Football League

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

@ on3m@n@rmy
The symptoms he described doesn't sound that serious. Pretty normal actually.

Anyway this feels like Christmas coming up.

Does anyone see anyone falling out of their "established range"?

I can think of perhaps Reuben Foster who has been viewed as a top 10 pick, Jabrill Peppers whose been projected to late first/early second, and Caleb Brantley whos been viewed as late 2nd/early 3rd rounder.

How many QBs go in the 1st round? I'm guessing 4.

Maybe Mixon but honestly I have not followed his situation.

As for Thomas, true it is not serious yet. Though he did not say it I know he has been concussed, and the memory loss is a likely outcome of that. Only he knows how badly and how often he's been concussed. Hopefully he'll be ok long term.

edit: Today, finally all the mocks will come to an end. There is only so much of that I can take. This is where the rubber hits the road for the draft. Besides interest in a couple of teams, and the usual interest in where players come off the board, I'm interested in seeing if any trading down or up happens in the first 3 rounds, and the who, when, and why surrounding those moves.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

@ on3m@n@rmy
The symptoms he described doesn't sound that serious. Pretty normal actually.

Anyway this feels like Christmas coming up.

Does anyone see anyone falling out of their "established range"?

I can think of perhaps Reuben Foster who has been viewed as a top 10 pick, Jabrill Peppers whose been projected to late first/early second, and Caleb Brantley whos been viewed as late 2nd/early 3rd rounder.

How many QBs go in the 1st round? I'm guessing 4.

Maybe Mixon but honestly I have not followed his situation.

As for Thomas, true it is not serious yet. Though he did not say it I know he has been concussed, and the memory loss is a likely outcome of that. Only he knows how badly and how often he's been concussed. Hopefully he'll be ok long term.

edit: Today, finally all the mocks will come to an end. There is only so much of that I can take. This is where the rubber hits the road for the draft. Besides interest in a couple of teams, and the usual interest in where players come off the board, I'm interested in seeing if any trading down or up happens in the first 3 rounds, and the who, when, and why surrounding those moves.

I'm always glad when the draft is over. If the Mixon incident was more recent he would go in the fourth round if he was lucky but he is expected to now go in the first. The QBs will be up and down but I expect Watson, Trubisky and maybe Kizer go in the first round and maybe Mahomes and Kaaya in the second but what do I know ? I think there will be plenty of horse trading and this could have an effect on other QBs like Ostweiler, Kaep and Cutler, the latter two still without a team. I think they will pick something up eventually that is if they want to actually play, more than they want a payday.

 

[Nomad]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

 

[red_flanders]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

It certainly remains to be seen if this is a good QB class. I think the general consensus is that teams reached, big time. The Bears got absolutely raped by a team that was going to pick Solomon Thomas anyway.

John Lynch the big winner today. Don't know what Reggie McKenzie is doing. Last year's draft was poor, and this is a weird start.

 

[Nomad]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

It certainly remains to be seen if this is a good QB class. I think the general consensus is that teams reached, big time. The Bears got absolutely raped by a team that was going to pick Solomon Thomas anyway.

John Lynch the big winner today. Don't know what Reggie McKenzie is doing. Last year's draft was poor, and this is a weird start.

Of course it remains to be seen. But some posters here were talking about what a bad draft class this is with QBs; that none would no way be worthy of a 1st or 2nd overall, and that Watson might even be pushed back into the 2nd rd, and all that bs. Look at it this way; Andy Reid ain't going trade all the way up from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes if he didn't see something special in the kid. And I think this is a clear message that Smith is failing to take KC to the promised land...so time to move on with the Texas Tech gun slinger.

 

[movingtarget]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

I didn't see anyone proclaiming themselves as expert on here. It's the NFL experts themselves that have been saying it's a weak year for QBs. Going early in the draft means nothing as more high picks fail than succeed. See how many of the QBs turn out in a few years. A lot of teams passed on Prescott last year so even the scouts get it wrong. Mixon was going to be a top 15 pick according to some of the experts and he didn't make the first round. Bears gave a up a lot for Trubisky as did the Rams with Goff last year. Smith won't be going anywhere for a while yet.

 

[Nomad]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

I didn't see anyone proclaiming themselves as expert on here. It's the NFL experts themselves that have been saying it's a weak year for QBs. Going early in the draft means nothing as more high picks fail than succeed. See how many of the QBs turn out in a few years. A lot of teams passed on Prescott last year so even the scouts get it wrong. Mixon was going to be a top 15 pick according to some of the experts and he didn't make the first round. Bears gave a up a lot for Trubisky as did the Rams with Goff last year. Smith won't be going anywhere for a while yet.

Prescott is a bad example to use. I posted about his situation earlier in this thread that a little known fact about him is that he got popped for a DUI about month before the draft last year. He was projected as a *high 2nd rounder* and the DUI dropped him all the way down to the 4th rd! Alcohol and potential NFL QBs don't mix well as far as team owners are concerned:

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2016/03/13/how-dak-prescotts-dui-arrest-affects-his-draft-stock/81739262/

And why do you think Smith won't be going anywhere yet? Can you imagine the texts he must have gotten from his buds asking what the heck is going on when the GM turned the tables upside down with that move. And I wouldn't doubt that Smith was on the horn with his agent asking WTF? The problem for Smith on a move like this is that the young buck Mahomes is going to want to start when you're a veteran QB who's only 2-4 in the post season with no SB appearances and not leading your team to the promised land. And looking back at the last 25 yrs or so of several QBs taken at the 10th pick, all but one (Leinart/Arizona/2006) have started day one of their rookie season.

This is a different era now than when a guy like Rodgers (pick #24) was willing to sit a few years behind Favre (though he was sitting behind a legend). These young bucks taken in the high first round want to play...and play now. They don't want to sit behind some aging veteran who the organization is not showing much confidence in by drafting a QB in the first 10 picks in the first place. And with the big salaries & signing bonuses most of these high-pick QBs are getting ownership expects them to start sooner than later.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

I didn't see anyone proclaiming themselves as expert on here. It's the NFL experts themselves that have been saying it's a weak year for QBs. Going early in the draft means nothing as more high picks fail than succeed. See how many of the QBs turn out in a few years. A lot of teams passed on Prescott last year so even the scouts get it wrong. Mixon was going to be a top 15 pick according to some of the experts and he didn't make the first round. Bears gave a up a lot for Trubisky as did the Rams with Goff last year. Smith won't be going anywhere for a while yet.

Prescott is a bad example to use. I posted about his situation earlier in this thread that a little known fact about him is that he got popped for a DUI about month before the draft last year. He was projected as a *high 2nd rounder* and the DUI dropped him all the way down to the 4th rd! Alcohol and potential NFL QBs don't mix well as far as team owners are concerned:

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2016/03/13/how-dak-prescotts-dui-arrest-affects-his-draft-stock/81739262/

And why do you think Smith won't be going anywhere yet? Can you imagine the texts he must have gotten from his buds asking what the heck is going on when the GM turned the tables upside down with that move. And I wouldn't doubt that Smith was on the horn with his agent asking WTF? The problem for Smith on a move like this is that the young buck Mahomes is going to want to start when you're a veteran QB who's only 2-4 in the post season with no SB appearances and not leading your team to the promised land. And looking back at the last 25 yrs or so of several QBs taken at the 10th pick, all but one (Leinart/Arizona/2006) have started day one of their rookie season.

This is a different era now than when a guy like Rodgers (pick #24) was willing to sit a few years behind Favre (though he was sitting behind a legend). These young bucks taken in the high first round want to play...and play now. They don't want to sit behind some aging veteran who the organization is not showing much confidence in by drafting a QB in the first 10 picks in the first place. And with the big salaries & signing bonuses most of these high-pick QBs are getting ownership expects them to start sooner than later.

I'm not sure you were talking about experts here or somewhere else. I noticed that torebear predicted 4 QB's to be picked in the first round. I picked 1 and I was right on the money with that pick. Not just figuratively either.

I don't really agree all 3 of these guys will start come september but I would not be surprised either. The redRaider for me is the biggest risk. He has what is described by the "experts" on NFL network as a strong arm with bad habits.

Should be interesting to watch. I was surprised to see KC move up like that to get him, but from what I understood from listening to the locals, the Saints were going to take the redRaider with the 11th pick.

 

[movingtarget]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

I didn't see anyone proclaiming themselves as expert on here. It's the NFL experts themselves that have been saying it's a weak year for QBs. Going early in the draft means nothing as more high picks fail than succeed. See how many of the QBs turn out in a few years. A lot of teams passed on Prescott last year so even the scouts get it wrong. Mixon was going to be a top 15 pick according to some of the experts and he didn't make the first round. Bears gave a up a lot for Trubisky as did the Rams with Goff last year. Smith won't be going anywhere for a while yet.

Prescott is a bad example to use. I posted about his situation earlier in this thread that a little known fact about him is that he got popped for a DUI about month before the draft last year. He was projected as a *high 2nd rounder* and the DUI dropped him all the way down to the 4th rd! Alcohol and potential NFL QBs don't mix well as far as team owners are concerned:

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2016/03/13/how-dak-prescotts-dui-arrest-affects-his-draft-stock/81739262/

And why do you think Smith won't be going anywhere yet? Can you imagine the texts he must have gotten from his buds asking what the heck is going on when the GM turned the tables upside down with that move. And I wouldn't doubt that Smith was on the horn with his agent asking WTF? The problem for Smith on a move like this is that the young buck Mahomes is going to want to start when you're a veteran QB who's only 2-4 in the post season with no SB appearances and not leading your team to the promised land. And looking back at the last 25 yrs or so of several QBs taken at the 10th pick, all but one (Leinart/Arizona/2006) have started day one of their rookie season.

This is a different era now than when a guy like Rodgers (pick #24) was willing to sit a few years behind Favre (though he was sitting behind a legend). These young bucks taken in the high first round want to play...and play now. They don't want to sit behind some aging veteran who the organization is not showing much confidence in by drafting a QB in the first 10 picks in the first place. And with the big salaries & signing bonuses most of these high-pick QBs are getting ownership expects them to start sooner than later.

They won't play the rookie QBs unless the coach thinks they are ready. There are doubts that any of them are ready depending on who you listen to but of all of the NFL info I have watched before the draft no one has said it's a good year for QBs like it is supposed to be for RBs and CBs. Who knows, there are always selections that disappoint and surprise. As for Smith it's the high pressure games he seems to fail on. Goff will get another chance this year but some people think if he doesn't perform he might be gone at the end of the season because the window of opportunity has narrowed and players especially high draft players are expected to perform much quicker. Defensive players seem to to get longer to learn.

 

[jmdirt]

RE: KC QB-- Smith isn't out, but he will have to compete with the kid for the starting job. I think its a good pick for KC because it should push Smith. If he (EDIT: Smith) wins the job, Mohomes will hopefully develop until he wins the job.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

John Lynch the big winner today. Don't know what Reggie McKenzie is doing. Last year's draft was poor, and this is a weird start.

Yeah, I thought Lynch played it very smart. Movingtarget should like that. Especially trading down the #2 overall to Chicago for the Bears #3 overall. Also, trading up to #31 overall with Seattle for a 2nd round #2 (34 overall) and a 4th round #2 (111 overall) was a good move for SF. And I liked SF's selections. That #2 overall DE out of Stanford gives them a good edge rusher to create problems with division rivals who lack edge protection {e.g. Seattle's tackles, who have countered with FA signee LT Luke Joeckel and a possible draft pick yet to be made. With that 34 overall SEA acquired from SF I expect SEA to take an OLman, either G Forrest Lamp or G/T Cam Robinson. On the best player available (BPA) scale I give Lamp the edge. Either man allows SEA to move Ifedi from G to RT, thereby on paper fixing the edge protection issue there}.

I thought Cleveland was also a winner by managing the draft well and making wise selections (using BPA principle instead of reaching on players). There are other winners too, but Cleveland's moves stood out to me as a change from their typical historically bad moves (reaches etc). OFC, not all CLE's past moves have been bad, they have made some good picks too (e.g. NT Danny Shelton), but they have had more than their fair share of bad picks (Notably - "show me the money" Manzeil).

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So much for the all the self-proclaimed experts here that said this was a bad QB draft class. Lol. 3 QBs taken in the first 12 picks!.... Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10) & Watson (12). And WTF; KC trades up from 27th to 10th to get the Texas Tech Red Raider! It's either bye bye Smith or hold a clipboard. All 3 will be at the helm come September...show me the money!

It certainly remains to be seen if this is a good QB class. I think the general consensus is that teams reached, big time. The Bears got absolutely raped by a team that was going to pick Solomon Thomas anyway.

John Lynch the big winner today. Don't know what Reggie McKenzie is doing. Last year's draft was poor, and this is a weird start.

Of course it remains to be seen. But some posters here were talking about what a bad draft class this is with QBs; that none would no way be worthy of a 1st or 2nd overall, and that Watson might even be pushed back into the 2nd rd, and all that bs. Look at it this way; Andy Reid ain't going trade all the way up from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes if he didn't see something special in the kid. And I think this is a clear message that Smith is failing to take KC to the promised land...so time to move on with the Texas Tech gun slinger.

Pre-draft, yes, this is a bad draft class because the risks associated with taking any of those QBs with a top 10 overall pick are very high. And teams do not want to waste those coveted high overall picks on busts. But besides risk, what are the odds of those QBs becoming good NFL QBs, and because of the risk right now (coming from spread schemes and have much to learn), the odds are lower. Can they become good starters? Sure. Jamis Winston, who also came from a collegiate spread scheme offense. The guys in this draft class have so much to learn. But we'll see won't we. Heck, that's why in a year from now the experts come out with their previous draft evaluations.

On a case by case basis, let's start with Chicago moving up from #3 to #2 overall to pick raw, 13-game collegiate starter Trubisky, who played in a spread offense. And they did this after spending $45M over 3 years for Mike Glennon. With the Trubisky pick, either they think 1) Glennon is not a career starter, 2) they want to create competition to see which of the two can become a career starter and hope one works out, or 3) a combination of those two thoughts but including the scenario where Glennon is the 2017 day-1 starter and Mitch will sit as long as needed until he learns enough to compete (vs Glennon) and then play well. Whatever it is, Chicago has a plan, and my guess is Glennon will start and Mitch will sit and learn until ready. But any way you slice it, the Trubisky pick, plan or not, is a reach by everyone's standards. Jon Gruden - "take the best player available - BPA". With their other needs, Chicago did not do that. They risked much, and stand to loose (or gain) much. But the odds are not in their favor.

Now, KC. Similar situation. They have a veteran QB in Smith and they trade up to get Pat Mahomes. Different qualities in Mahomes. Very strong arm. But again, very long learning process. Come day-1, Smith will likely be the starter and Mahomes will sit until he's ready, if he can ever get ready. Mahomes is a bit of a reach pick at #10 overall, but he's going to a team with veteran QB leadership he can learn from. Not a bad pick for KC.

Houston's case is a little different. Texans really don't have a guy who can start (Weeden, Savage). They almost had to go get a QB. But what do they have what on their roster? A pretty good defense and a 1000+ yard rusher. This is a pretty good situation for Watson, who is a clutch performer. But Houston will not need him to make a ton of clutch plays. And at #12 overall, Watson is maybe a slight reach, but not by much if any. Because of their roster situation, I like this pick for Houston.

Movingtarget summed it up pretty well:

They won't play the rookie QBs unless the coach thinks they are ready. There are doubts that any of them are ready depending on who you listen to but of all of the NFL info I have watched before the draft no one has said it's a good year for QBs like it is supposed to be for RBs and CBs. Who knows, there are always selections that disappoint and surprise.

 

[BullsFan22]

So are Seattle peeps happy, content, irate, indifferent....after the draft?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I agree with on@3army on the picks. I'll stand by what I said about this being a weak QB draft, as I'll also stand by what I wrote about teams reading and getting overly excited about college quarterbacks. The numbers and history back me up.

I too like what Cleveland did. It matches their BPA and sabermetric, holistic thinking. But they also gave up the top pick in the 2nd round to GB. So if they thought of taking DeShone Kizer, he may not be there when they pick again late in the round. If they wanted him.

I also like what the Saints did, taking the best DB in the draft. No need to spend all that $ on Malcolm Butler. Their patients paid off and they got the guy they wanted.

KC drafting Mahnones makes at least some sense. Smith is at an contract extension after this year, so the Chiefs can release him after the season if they like Mahones, and $17 million in cap space. That gives them a lot of time to look at Mahones. But to move that far up the draft to get him, that makes little sense to me.

I was a little surprised by the Jags taking Leonard Fournette, but the real shocker was the Panthers taking Christian McCaffrey at 8. EIGHT!!! And they need all kinds of help elsewhere! Both Fournette and McCaffrey need to take Ezekial Eliot out to dinner, along with the Cowboy OL, who really did most of the work for him.

Was a little surprised and upset that the Raiders didn't take Reuben Foster. Gareon Conley has talent, but that was a mistaken pick to me.

I have to wonder where Foxxy is, probably hung over in some pub. The Bears are destined to finish in last this coming season, no doubt.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So are Seattle peeps happy, content, irate, indifferent....after the draft?

My football-minded peeps & I are extatic over day-1 of the draft, when Seattle did not even make a pick after trading down twice. So on day-2 Seattle has 6 picks; 2 2nd rounders & 4 3rd rounders. With the 34th overall I hope they go for Forrest Lamp or Cam Robinson. I'd be happy with either but I prefer Lamp by a nose because he is more technically solid and footwork is better than Cam's, who is a bit slow footed.

Round 2 starts in a minute or two.


I agree McCaffrey is a reach at 8. But Carolina has the between the tackles pounder in Stewart, and i expect Carolina will not use McCaffrey tween the tackles. Little McC should make the Carolina offense more dangerous if used smartly.

Boy. Ppl just don't like Roger based on the chorus of boos. Here goes.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

LMAO Alpe. Yeah, after that Bears blunder for Trubisky he prolly is dousing his sorrows at the local watering hole. What a mental picture.

Browns really are looking smart now after drafting Deshone Kizer in the second round, at an overall position (#20 in round 2) appropriate for his skillset or level of development (high ceiling, low risk). I mean, if they had taken any QB at #1 overall they would have missed out on Myles Garrett. Or if they had pulled the trigger on a QB before taking Kizer they miss out on FS Jabrill Peppers (#25 overall), and TE Dave Nijoku (29 overall). Result: much better value at the draft spots.

 

[movingtarget]

John Lynch the big winner today. Don't know what Reggie McKenzie is doing. Last year's draft was poor, and this is a weird start.

Yeah, I thought Lynch played it very smart. Movingtarget should like that. Especially trading down the #2 overall to Chicago for the Bears #3 overall. Also, trading up to #31 overall with Seattle for a 2nd round #2 (34 overall) and a 4th round #2 (111 overall) was a good move for SF. And I liked SF's selections. That #2 overall DE out of Stanford gives them a good edge rusher to create problems with division rivals who lack edge protection {e.g. Seattle's tackles, who have countered with FA signee LT Luke Joeckel and a possible draft pick yet to be made. With that 34 overall SEA acquired from SF I expect SEA to take an OLman, either G Forrest Lamp or G/T Cam Robinson. On the best player available (BPA) scale I give Lamp the edge. Either man allows SEA to move Ifedi from G to RT, thereby on paper fixing the edge protection issue there}.

I thought Cleveland was also a winner by managing the draft well and making wise selections (using BPA principle instead of reaching on players). There are other winners too, but Cleveland's moves stood out to me as a change from their typical historically bad moves (reaches etc). OFC, not all CLE's past moves have been bad, they have made some good picks too (e.g. NT Danny Shelton), but they have had more than their fair share of bad picks (Notably - "show me the money" Manzeil).

Pretty happy with the two first round picks for the 49ers although Foster has had shoulder issues. The two third round picks were a little odd. The CB was good but trading back into the third round for a QB who no ones mentioned surprised people. Obviously Shanahan saw something in him and they need to fill the QB roster. Kizer was already gone. QB bio below :

The 49ers made their fourth trade of the draft and snuck back into the third round. San Francisco sent the Minnesota Vikings pick Nos. 109 (fourth round) and 219 (seventh round) for pick No. 104. The 49ers used the selection on Iowa quarterback C.J. Beathard.

Beathard had an outstanding season in 2015 with 2,809 passing yards and 17 touchdowns. His production dipped a bit in 2016 with 1,929 passing yards and 17 touchdowns.

"Played in pro-style passing attack, working under center and from shotgun," reads his profile on NFL.com. "Capable and confident rolling out. Squares shoulders to deliver strikes. Completed 57 percent of his passes outside of the pocket at Iowa.

"Has the arm strength to throw the deep out without laboring. Trusts his line and keeps eyes downfield. Plays with relatively calm demeanor. Good feel and timing for screen game."

Mike Mayock said on NFL Network that the former Hawkeye impressed at his pro day leading up to the draft. He joins veteran signal callers Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley as the third quarterback on San Francisco's roster.

 

[jmdirt]

Lots of good thoughts above!

Who knows what will happen between the lines come August, but its entertaining to play on paper for now.

QBs in general- the stats don't look good for top pick QBs because they go to poor teams. Pick your favorite QB of all time in their prime, plug them into a 1-15 team, and with some luck the team is 5-11. Why would anyone expect a rook to be able to save a team?! Even if a poor team makes some good picks and trades to put around the new kid, the odds are still crappy. I know that owners and fans are impatient, but it takes time to build a good team. The rook/young QBs that have great seasons/careers are obviously with teams that have the pieces in place (ie: Dal in '16).

Chi- So here we go, the Bears don't have enough pieces in place to be a winning team. Trubisky will take the brunt of the beating for why they go 5-11 next year, but its the owner/GM who are to blame. Now if they take their lumps and build for a few years instead reaching, pointing fingers, and reaching, plus reaching, who knows. There's nothing wrong with building around a young QB as long as development is the focus.

I'm a Seahawks fan, I was expecting them to grab some big men for the O trenches, but through round 3, they only got one (a center). I don't think that O coordinators in general have adjusted to the way that edge rushers play now. Seattle tried to use Wilson's legs as the adjustment, but IMO that isn't a good plan. They need athletic tackles with great feet, and shuffling what they have isn't going to cut it IMO.

Hou- I've always thought that Weeden is better than he has played. I know that sounds stupid, but he's never played in an offense built for him for a several game stretch. Even though he was playing a watered down Romo offense at Dal a few years ago he started to look better. Anyway, I think that he and Watson can push each other. Watson is a better athlete, but obviously Weeden has some experience.

Car- McC is perfect for them (8 is a bit high maybe, but they knew that he wouldn't be around for their next pick).

Cle- Their draft dancing appears to be smarter than their past hyperactive reaching, but what are they going to do to build a team? They certainly made their defense better. Can their O line keep their QB out of the turf? Kizer has potential to be a good NFL QB...in time. I'm not sure why they brought Osweiler in, and I don't see him being much help to Kizer's development.

Den- They are sticking with their plan to win with D...good picks. Can Siemian be the man? I think that he can be a sold QB, but can he lead them to Superbowls? I guess only time will tell, but my gut says no.

Veg- Grabbing Beast Mode was a good move, if for no other reason than calming a few fans.

OK, much more to type but no more time...

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Lots of good thoughts above!

Who knows what will happen between the lines come August, but its entertaining to play on paper for now.

QBs in general- the stats don't look good for top pick QBs because they go to poor teams. Pick your favorite QB of all time in their prime, plug them into a 1-15 team, and with some luck the team is 5-11. Why would anyone expect a rook to be able to save a team?! Even if a poor team makes some good picks and trades to put around the new kid, the odds are still crappy. I know that owners and fans are impatient, but it takes time to build a good team. The rook/young QBs that have great seasons/careers are obviously with teams that have the pieces in place (ie: Dal in '16).

Chi- So here we go, the Bears don't have enough pieces in place to be a winning team. Trubisky will take the brunt of the beating for why they go 5-11 next year, but its the owner/GM who are to blame. Now if they take their lumps and build for a few years instead reaching, pointing fingers, and reaching, plus reaching, who knows. There's nothing wrong with building around a young QB as long as development is the focus.

I'm a Seahawks fan, I was expecting them to grab some big men for the O trenches, but through round 3, they only got one (a center). I don't think that O coordinators in general have adjusted to the way that edge rushers play now. Seattle tried to use Wilson's legs as the adjustment, but IMO that isn't a good plan. They need athletic tackles with great feet, and shuffling what they have isn't going to cut it IMO.

Hou- I've always thought that Weeden is better than he has played. I know that sounds stupid, but he's never played in an offense built for him for a several game stretch. Even though he was playing a watered down Romo offense at Dal a few years ago he started to look better. Anyway, I think that he and Watson can push each other. Watson is a better athlete, but obviously Weeden has some experience.

Car- McC is perfect for them (8 is a bit high maybe, but they knew that he wouldn't be around for their next pick).

Cle- Their draft dancing appears to be smarter than their past hyperactive reaching, but what are they going to do to build a team? They certainly made their defense better. Can their O line keep their QB out of the turf? Kizer has potential to be a good NFL QB...in time. I'm not sure why they brought Osweiler in, and I don't see him being much help to Kizer's development.

Den- They are sticking with their plan to win with D...good picks. Can Siemian be the man? I think that he can be a sold QB, but can he lead them to Superbowls? I guess only time will tell, but my gut says no.

Veg- Grabbing Beast Mode was a good move, if for no other reason than calming a few fans.

OK, much more to type but no more time...

Good summary. And daylight's burning here too. So I be quick. SEA fan likewise, and originally was hoping for different OL selection than they made (I wanted Lamp or Robinson, and they get Center Pocic). After watching video on most of their selections, I am pretty enthused. Pocic (say Posick) has played and can play all 5 OL positions, but is probably better suited to G. I have been waiting for the day SEA bumps Ifedi from RG to RT, and this may be the year while they insert Pocic at RG. Pocic is said to be very smart, so they might insert him at C and bump Britt back to RG, where Britt played in his soph year and did okay. I know you don't like it, but I think some shuffling of personnel to new positions is likely, and really should be expected with Ifedi (destined for RT) on the roster. What I am more concerned with regarding the SEA OL between now and August is they decide on the 5 OL starters and where they start, and then STICK with that decision for the season. No more of this shuffling linemen around in the middle of the season (unless having to due to injuries). Not blaming Cable for shuffling guys last year - the group was so inept as a whole. But I think the new additions allows Cable to sit comfortable with guys in certain positions, instead of constant shuffling during the season. Camps will be a different critter - there will be some shuffling there to find out what they have and the best chemistry.

A SEA draft criticism might be: why pass on sure thing Guard Forrest Lamp only to get Pocic (to play G) and gain a late round draft pick (round 6 or 7)? And that would be a good question. The only rationale for that IMO is Lamp can only play G, whereas Pocic can play all of the positions. The flexibility Pocic provides is valuable. So basically, I have talked my way out of my initial disappointment that SEA did not select Lamp or Robinson.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Lots of good thoughts above!

Who knows what will happen between the lines come August, but its entertaining to play on paper for now.

QBs in general- the stats don't look good for top pick QBs because they go to poor teams. Pick your favorite QB of all time in their prime, plug them into a 1-15 team, and with some luck the team is 5-11. Why would anyone expect a rook to be able to save a team?! Even if a poor team makes some good picks and trades to put around the new kid, the odds are still crappy. I know that owners and fans are impatient, but it takes time to build a good team. The rook/young QBs that have great seasons/careers are obviously with teams that have the pieces in place (ie: Dal in '16).

Chi- So here we go, the Bears don't have enough pieces in place to be a winning team. Trubisky will take the brunt of the beating for why they go 5-11 next year, but its the owner/GM who are to blame. Now if they take their lumps and build for a few years instead reaching, pointing fingers, and reaching, plus reaching, who knows. There's nothing wrong with building around a young QB as long as development is the focus.

I'm a Seahawks fan, I was expecting them to grab some big men for the O trenches, but through round 3, they only got one (a center). I don't think that O coordinators in general have adjusted to the way that edge rushers play now. Seattle tried to use Wilson's legs as the adjustment, but IMO that isn't a good plan. They need athletic tackles with great feet, and shuffling what they have isn't going to cut it IMO.

Hou- I've always thought that Weeden is better than he has played. I know that sounds stupid, but he's never played in an offense built for him for a several game stretch. Even though he was playing a watered down Romo offense at Dal a few years ago he started to look better. Anyway, I think that he and Watson can push each other. Watson is a better athlete, but obviously Weeden has some experience.

Car- McC is perfect for them (8 is a bit high maybe, but they knew that he wouldn't be around for their next pick).

Cle- Their draft dancing appears to be smarter than their past hyperactive reaching, but what are they going to do to build a team? They certainly made their defense better. Can their O line keep their QB out of the turf? Kizer has potential to be a good NFL QB...in time. I'm not sure why they brought Osweiler in, and I don't see him being much help to Kizer's development.

Den- They are sticking with their plan to win with D...good picks. Can Siemian be the man? I think that he can be a sold QB, but can he lead them to Superbowls? I guess only time will tell, but my gut says no.

Veg- Grabbing Beast Mode was a good move, if for no other reason than calming a few fans.

OK, much more to type but no more time...

Good summary. And daylight's burning here too. So I be quick. SEA fan likewise, and originally was hoping for different OL selection than they made (I wanted Lamp or Robinson, and they get Center Pocic). After watching video on most of their selections, I am pretty enthused. Pocic (say Posick) has played and can play all 5 OL positions, but is probably better suited to G. I have been waiting for the day SEA bumps Ifedi from RG to RT, and this may be the year while they insert Pocic at RG. Pocic is said to be very smart, so they might insert him at C and bump Britt back to RG, where Britt played in his soph year and did okay. I know you don't like it, but I think some shuffling of personnel to new positions is likely, and really should be expected with Ifedi (destined for RT) on the roster. What I am more concerned with regarding the SEA OL between now and August is they decide on the 5 OL starters and where they start, and then STICK with that decision for the season. No more of this shuffling linemen around in the middle of the season (unless having to due to injuries). Not blaming Cable for shuffling guys last year - the group was so inept as a whole. But I think the new additions allows Cable to sit comfortable with guys in certain positions, instead of constant shuffling during the season. Camps will be a different critter - there will be some shuffling there to find out what they have and the best chemistry.

A SEA draft criticism might be: why pass on sure thing Guard Forrest Lamp only to get Pocic (to play G) and gain a late round draft pick (round 6 or 7)? And that would be a good question. The only rationale for that IMO is Lamp can only play G, whereas Pocic can play all of the positions. The flexibility Pocic provides is valuable. So basically, I have talked my way out of my initial disappointment that SEA did not select Lamp or Robinson.

Pocic is one of the most athletic OL in the draft (snapping the ball, and then getting WAY out to the edge/downfield for big blocks). Maybe he could be a great tackle with a little coaching from Cable, but he will likely play G this year. Brit needs to stay at center. Sea needs to "find" one more OL starter either in the draft or maybe even a vet in the summer trade times.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Might just have to become a Raiders fan:
https://twitter.com/RAIDERS/status/858433795325931521?s=09

I agree the best sense is to keep Britt at center. On tape Pocic does nice job of getting to second level.

 

[BullsFan22]

So have the Seahawks picked up some O lineman or have they turned their heads the other way, again? Benign neglect, perhaps? Stubbornness?

They recently released their schedule for the 2017 season and I don't think it's that bad, apart from the fact that they are not at home for an extended period of time, it's essentially like a european football schedule where you are H, A, H, A, etc. Another bummer is that it's another season where they get an early BYE week.

 

[jmdirt]

Might just have to become a Raiders fan:
https://twitter.com/RAIDERS/status/858433795325931521?s=09

I agree the best sense is to keep Britt at center. On tape Pocic does nice job of getting to second level.

I've liked the Raiders on-off-on-off-on... for 30 years. Not based on their record so much as who is playing for them or style they are playing. I've enjoyed them recently, and look forward to this year.

Sea picked an OT in the 6th round. I don't know anything about him so I'll research later. They still need to get a starter in the summer trade window.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@ BullsFan & jmdirt: this was an off year in draft for me. I usually try to find scouting reports and watch tape of top 5 or so prospects in my team's needs. This generally means I'm familiar with prospects at other positions as well. I did not do that this year. So I was not aware of SEA 2nd rounder C/G Pocic or 6th rounder T Justin Senior from Miss State {6’5, 331 lbs, 34” arms, 10.25” hands, 5.55 sec 40-dash, 23” vertical, 98” broadjump, 8.19 three-cone drill == NOT ATHLETIC! Opposite what Seahawks usually look for at OL}. His playing weight was around 300 lbs, so this weight gain has led one Hawk exec to publicly question whether he WANTS to play in the NFL. So, WHY DRAFT HIM???! Struggled in Senior Bowl, low ceiling. This is the one Seattle pick I just do not understand.

There's more, nfl .com:

Senior has long arms and strong hands, but his lack of bend and inconsistent footwork could cripple his NFL cause if he doesn't improve them. Senior is a right tackle only who has three years of experience against talented, SEC defensive ends but he struggled badly at times in the Senior Bowl. His size could get him drafted, but he has some work to do before ever hitting an NFL field.

That said, I would not call lack of Seattle's attention in draft on OL neglect. Because this was deep defensive draft, where Seattle had big needs, so rightly spent most of their picks on the defensive side.

As for Pocic, many experts did not like the pick. But due to limitations od Robinson (footwork, slow feet) and Lamp (interior guy only) I understand the Pocic pick. Plus Pocic is athletic who plays multiple positions, as has been said here already.

More to say but that's it for now.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Here is the rest. Walter Football gives Chicago an F Gade in the draft. It might not be quite that bad, as their grading is sometimes questioable, but I'd agree it was a poor draft for the Bears. Here is what Walt's had to say:

Goals Entering the 2017 NFL Draft: The Bears spent a ton of money on Mike Glennon, so why would they spend a first-round on a pedestrian quarterback prospect? Glennon is not the answer, but neither is Mitchell Trubisky or Deshaun Watson. Chicago has to add talent to its secondary, receiving corps and offensive tackle group.

2017 NFL Draft Accomplishments: This section is misleading because it says "2017 NFL Draft Accomplishments." The Bears didn't accomplish anything outside of setting their franchise back five years.

I can't believe how bad Chicago's draft was. Of the five picks the team made, three earned Millen grades. I can't say this for certain, but I'm almost confident that it's the highest percentage (60%) of Millen grades I've given to one team for any draft class. Thus, Chicago may have obtained the worst prospective NFL Draft class of all time.

The disaster began early when the Bears allowed the 49ers to con them into trading up to No. 2. They then made the mistake that numerous incompetent teams have made over the years, as they reached for a middling quarterback prospect over a superior talent. This has always backfired. Take a look at some examples from this decade alone:

- The Jaguars picked Blaine Gabbert over J.J. Watt
- The Titans picked Jake Locker over J.J. Watt and Tyron Smith
- The Vikings picked Christian Ponder over Robert Quinn
- The Dolphins picked Ryan Tannehill over Luke Kuechly
- The Bills picked E.J. Manuel over Tyler Eifert
- The Jaguars picked Blake Bortles over Khalil Mack

There are many more examples of this, so shame on the Bears for not learning from the mistakes that incompetent front offices have made over the years.

This is the easiest "F" team grade I've ever given. I'm not even naming it a Millen. It's that bad.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgradesteam.php