National Football League

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm the guy that calls Carr the "anti-Plunkett". Great between the 10 yard lines, and at his very best when the game least matters. The opposite of Raider great Jim Plunkett. But hey, he's a nice guy, like Plunkett was.

(My understanding is Plunkett was a tough competitor on the field though. Not sure about Carr).

Jarett Stidham looked better in the pre-season than Carr has almost all season, save the second half of last week's game against...the Texans. Carr is Raider loyal and impossible to outright hate, but really no better than Ryan Tannehill (worse record though), Jimmy Garappolo, Daniel Jones, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, etc. Able to win some games, if the whole team is playing well, and he doesn't have to do anything extra.

I think you've got a little too much Monday morning quarterbacking there. How about this. Tell me exactly what you would plan if you were GM of the Chargers and they don't make the playoffs. Cut bait on Herbert and...? Try to sign someone like...who exactly? Jacoby Brisett? Jimmy Garappolo? Pay Geno Smith $25m or more a year of Seattle doesn't sign him first? Probably not, as you probably wrote him off as a bust his third year as a Jet. Or do you do what many GM's do, blindly draft a new QB, and wait another three years, hoping he plays better?

 

[movingtarget]

I'm the guy that calls Carr the "anti-Plunkett". Great between the 10 yard lines, and at his very best when the game least matters. The opposite of Raider great Jim Plunkett. But hey, he's a nice guy, like Plunkett was.

(My understanding is Plunkett was a tough competitor on the field though. Not sure about Carr).

Jarett Stidham looked better in the pre-season than Carr has almost all season, save the second half of last week's game against...the Texans. Carr is Raider loyal and impossible to outright hate, but really no better than Ryan Tannehill (worse record though), Jimmy Garappolo, Daniel Jones, Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, etc. Able to win some games, if the whole team is playing well, and he doesn't have to do anything extra.

I think you've got a little too much Monday morning quarterbacking there. How about this. Tell me exactly what you would plan if you were GM of the Chargers and they don't make the playoffs. Cut bait on Herbert and...? Try to sign someone like...who exactly? Jacoby Brisett? Jimmy Garappolo? Pay Geno Smith $25m or more a year of Seattle doesn't sign him first? Probably not, as you probably wrote him off as a bust his third year as a Jet. Or do you do what many GM's do, blindly draft a new QB, and wait another three years, hoping he plays better?

Don't see Herbert going anywhere or even being benched as long as his injury is not too worrisome. That list of names is all you need to know............they have a really good RB, good defense when not injured, the coach can be a bit hit and miss but there were good reasons a lot of people were picking them as big improvers before the season started...........the rest of the season will tell for teams like Denver and the Chargers, GB, Bucs, Rams and 49ers.. Some of them will improve and some of the current frontrunners will drop off. Interested to see which of the Hawks, Jets, Giants and Eagles can keep it going. I remember the Cards and Steelers had great starts to the season winning almost all of their first 10 games then the bottom fell out of them before the playoffs.

 

[movingtarget]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1fSdDIx5IQ

 

[movingtarget]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dH-VDSYNqU

 

[Oldermanish]

Don't see Herbert going anywhere or even being benched as long as his injury is not too worrisome. That list of names is all you need to know............they have a really good RB, good defense when not injured, the coach can be a bit hit and miss but there were good reasons a lot of people were picking them as big improvers before the season started...........the rest of the season will tell for teams like Denver and the Chargers, GB, Bucs, Rams and 49ers.. Some of them will improve and some of the current frontrunners will drop off. Interested to see which of the Hawks, Jets, Giants and Eagles can keep it going. I remember the Cards and Steelers had great starts to the season winning almost all of their first 10 games then the bottom fell out of them before the playoffs.

Alot of teams are one key injury from a bad streak, the Seahawks among them IMO. Hopefully they won't have revolving centers from here on out and their world class punter shouldn't do anything else odd.....

 

[Nomad]

I think you've got a little too much Monday morning quarterbacking there. How about this. Tell me exactly what you would plan if you were GM of the Chargers and they don't make the playoffs. Cut bait on Herbert and...? Try to sign someone like...who exactly? Jacoby Brisett? Jimmy Garappolo? Pay Geno Smith $25m or more a year of Seattle doesn't sign him first? Probably not, as you probably wrote him off as a bust his third year as a Jet. Or do you do what many GM's do, blindly draft a new QB, and wait another three years, hoping he plays better?

I think we all have a certain degree of "Monday morning quarterbacking" here in this forum - we're just not getting paid for it like all the talking heads on the TV/radio sport shows. Lol. Definitely cut bait on Herbert & draft another QB. There are so many out there than can be the next Joe Burrow, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, etc. - GMs/HCs just have to find & develop them. Heck, Alabama is becoming QB-U now (who would have thought).

I'd say Geno learned quite well under the tutelage of Wilson the 3 yrs he sat. He had a rough time at NY after a sensational rookie year. The next 3 yrs were rough with the ACL & the fracture jaw from that fight with a teammate (Btw, he got 4 yrs at NY)

So, I asked you earlier if you think 3 yrs is a reasonable time frame to expect a 1st rd QB (especially a high 1st rd pick) to make the playoffs, given they've played most or all of their first two seasons? Or do you think that's an unreasonable time frame? If so, how much time would you give before cutting your losses?

Perhaps a lot depends on the owners? Some want to win at all costs & some seem to care less. I remember when Cutler was jettisoned from the Broncos after just 3 seasons (he played only 2 full seasons) & was traded to the Bears for Kyle Orton. Cutler played in 8 seasons with the Bears but only had two winning seasons & only one playoff appearance. Ownership seemed quite content with the underachieving Cutler while Bear fans had to put up with dreadful losing season after losing season. Lol. OTOH, the Broncos didn't fare much better with Orton a bust and the team drafting a franchise QB in the 1st rd with Tebow - and we all know how that worked out. Lol.

It's hit or miss with these 1st rounders.

 

[Nomad]

You either wear a George, Kenny, Jim or Daryle jersey if you're a fan. George is the MAN.

What about Biletnikoff? I remember back in my HS playing days all us SBs & WRs idolized him wearing eye black & stickum at practice. Drove the coaches crazy as they put a stop to it yelling at us that we weren't worthy of emulating pro players.

 

[Nomad]

Wow!

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[Oldermanish]

What about Biletnikoff? I remember back in my HS playing days all us SBs & WRs idolized him wearing eye black & stickum at practice. Drove the coaches crazy as they put a stop to it yelling at us that we weren't worthy of emulating pro players.

You have to cut off the jersey after wearing. No other way to remove it....

 

[Oldermanish]

What about Biletnikoff? I remember back in my HS playing days all us SBs & WRs idolized him wearing eye black & stickum at practice. Drove the coaches crazy as they put a stop to it yelling at us that we weren't worthy of emulating pro players.

I saw him catch one over the head lob pass without his hands.......

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

You either wear a George, Kenny, Jim or Daryle jersey if you're a fan. George is the MAN.

If I were to wear a Raider jersey around for fun, it would probably be Stabler.

Gruden shafted. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1fSdDIx5IQ

Problem is, for me anyway, first, Gruden was an overrated coach, and way overrated at evaluating players, with a poor draft record. He and Maycock took a decent Raider team, and all but ruined them. Plus, the e-mails, leaked fairly or not, made him look like a piece of shjt human being. If I were Mark Davis I would have done the same. Told Jon he can quit, or you're fired. But for multiple reasons why. Bad, bad, bad publicity, plus his luster as an alluring coach had completely worn off. He was done.

I think we all have a certain degree of "Monday morning quarterbacking" here in this forum.

Agree there.

I'd say Geno learned quite well under the tutelage of Wilson the 3 yrs he sat.

Except I don't think it was all from Wilson.

So, I asked you earlier if you think 3 yrs is a reasonable time frame to expect a 1st rd QB (especially a high 1st rd pick) to make the playoffs, given they've played most or all of their first two seasons? Or do you think that's an unreasonable time frame? If so, how much time would you give before cutting your losses?

I think it has more to do than just time. There are too many circumstances and variables to make such a hard line on time. Let me put it this way:

I think Herbert has played well enough most of the time, and has talent enough that I'd stick with him.

Looking at recent years, not just from 2019. If I were a GM, I would extend: Burrow, Kyler Murray, Hurts, Herbert. Probably Trevor Lawerence. (Allen and Lamar already extended to big deals. Both are worth it).

I'd think hard about extending: Daniel Jones, Tua. Zach Wilson. Trey Lance and Justin Fields are almost a no. Davis Mills, simply because you can likely get him real cheap, now.

I wouldn't sign/extend, unless some miracle happens before the end of the season: Mayfield, Darnold, Mac Jones, Lock, Love.

The one vet would sign to a deal right now is Geno Smith. As I said before, the longer Seattle waits, the more expensive he gets.

It's hit or miss with these 1st rounders.

I agree completely there, which is why I'd stick with Herbert before just drafting another QB hoping he's better.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This is the Chargers we’re talking about, the team that had the number 1 offense and defense and missed the playoffs. Herbert’s first year only 2 games they lost were by 2 scores or more with a barely 0.5 coach. They improved on their record the previous year. The second year while yes they won a game or two because of the head coaches aggressiveness, also lost more games because of it. Right now they have a positive record (should have beat the Chiefs in a just world) and Herbert is third in yards and fifth in touchdowns. I don’t see anyone they can get or that’s coming up that would be better right now with the only quarterbacks I’d take to build a team around are Mahomes and Allen.

 

[jmdirt]

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[Alpe d'Huez]

I don't quite get the Stafford thing? Was he just trash talking for kicks? Or was someone trolling him and he was trash talking to get even after the TD, or...?

I don’t see anyone they can get or that’s coming up that would be better right now with the only quarterbacks I’d take to build a team around are Mahomes and Allen.

While I obviously like Herbert, I'd take Burrow over him. I also still like Lamar Jackson and think there's something amazing about him. He, and the Baltimore offense, just seem to lack consistency right now. But it seems to me the Ravens, with Jackson, could beat anyone on any given day. It also seems like Hurts really is better than advertised as well. The Eagles are solid across the board on defense, run a lot on offense, but when he throws, he pushes the ball down the field, which I like. But I don't know how much Hurts elevates the Eagle offense. The jury is still out on that one I think.

 

[Oldermanish]

I don't quite get the Stafford thing? Was he just trash talking for kicks? Or was someone trolling him and he was trash talking to get even after the TD, or...?


While I obviously like Herbert, I'd take Burrow over him. I also still like Lamar Jackson and think there's something amazing about him. He, and the Baltimore offense, just seem to lack consistency right now. But it seems to me the Ravens, with Jackson, could beat anyone on any given day. It also seems like Hurts really is better than advertised as well. The Eagles are solid across the board on defense, run a lot on offense, but when he throws, he pushes the ball down the field, which I like. But I don't know how much Hurts elevates the Eagle offense. The jury is still out on that one I think.

Lamar has always impressed in the few games I've watched. I think, too that Harbaugh is the right coach for him. Kinda like Pete C and Co. and Geno making the most of their current abilities.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't quite get the Stafford thing? Was he just trash talking for kicks? Or was someone trolling him and he was trash talking to get even after the TD, or...?


While I obviously like Herbert, I'd take Burrow over him. I also still like Lamar Jackson and think there's something amazing about him. He, and the Baltimore offense, just seem to lack consistency right now. But it seems to me the Ravens, with Jackson, could beat anyone on any given day. It also seems like Hurts really is better than advertised as well. The Eagles are solid across the board on defense, run a lot on offense, but when he throws, he pushes the ball down the field, which I like. But I don't know how much Hurts elevates the Eagle offense. The jury is still out on that one I think.

I think they’re on the same level and not something I’d lost my future on trying to get like Broncos with Wilson. Now Mahomes or Allen yes.

 

[movingtarget]

https://www.nfl.com/news/bears-trading-pass-rusher-robert-quinn-to-eagles-for-fourth-round-pick

good pick up for the Eagles

 

[movingtarget]

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-season-four-things-to-watch-for-in-ravens-buccaneers-game-on-prime-vide

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Bears trade Robert Quinn to Eagles.

Good pick up for the Eagles

While I agree with what you wrote, I am starting to have a problem with how the NFL trade deadline works. What we're starting to see with trades like this, CM to the 49ers, etc. are teams that figure their season is lost, dumping marquee players to teams who are contenders hoping to make a single push for the Super Bowl. This wrecks the parity the league strives for, and is something you see in MLB with rich teams buying up good players from poor teams. It's not quite that bad where a team like the Oakland As show promise almost every year, but in effect operate as a minor league team for the richest teams in the league to pilfer their growing talent. I hope the NFL doesn't continue down this path.

 

[SHAD0W93]

What helps the NFL the most is the one game format. Best of 7 and doubtful Saints, Giants, and Patriots win some of those Super Bowls. On the parity I think it is best shown how well it actually works by the Super Bowl quarterbacks. Elway, Aikman, Warner, Manning, Big Ben, Garoppolo(*), and Brady are the only quarterbacks to go to 3 or more Super Bowls with Elway and Aikman having some before the salary cap. Only present quarterback I can see going to three or more is Mahomes. It does stink seeing teams trying to load up but we’ve seen it bite them. I think recency bias might be high after seeing TB and LAR do it. Salaries are getting higher and players want to be paid more which will make it harder on teams.

 

[movingtarget]

What helps the NFL the most is the one game format. Best of 7 and doubtful Saints, Giants, and Patriots win some of those Super Bowls. On the parity I think it is best shown how well it actually works by the Super Bowl quarterbacks. Elway, Aikman, Warner, Manning, Big Ben, Garoppolo(*), and Brady are the only quarterbacks to go to 3 or more Super Bowls with Elway and Aikman having some before the salary cap. Only present quarterback I can see going to three or more is Mahomes. It does stink seeing teams trying to load up but we’ve seen it bite them. I think recency bias might be high after seeing TB and LAR do it. Salaries are getting higher and players want to be paid more which will make it harder on teams.

Kinda crazy whereby Vonn Miler was stuck in Denver and most people seem to think he's past his best then the Rams trade for him and he gets his SB win on a much better roster than Denver then becomes a free agent and earns big money going to the Bills who are this season's SB favourites ! What a luxury to have that choice between the current SB holder and possibly the heir apparent ! Of course the Bills were prepared to pay more but could it have worked out any better for a player who was treading water in Denver career wise ? You could say the same about Stafford's career before he was traded. No wonder talented players on mediocre teams are always receptive to such moves especially veterans.

With the single game format anything can happen. Look what happened last season. The Bengals took out the Chiefs and the 49ers took out the Cowboys and Packers who were both heavily favoured to win.

 

[movingtarget]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=025dhTqgGiE

 

[Oldermanish]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=025dhTqgGiE

I have to agree with these guys. It's a team game and injury assessments are gameday intelligence you don't share with the competition. If anything is said, it must be from the coaching staff to serve the team as well as the player. That said, the gross lack of regard displayed by the Dolphins to Tua when they work under this system of media contact only adds responsibility to not bullsh*t the player and the media to serve short term goals. Particularly in dangerous health situations.

Wilson's departure on the protocol and fan reaction is similar to what started happening to fans in Seattle during his last two years and IMO also led to a segmentation of team loyalty. He just added a dose of controlled narcissism to his current deal because the Bronco's gave him bigger guarantees and hero status prematurely. This kind of thing ends careers.

 

[SHAD0W93]

When Marshawn said you have to go through his people to talk with him was very telling on who he is as a person and thinks of himself. You don’t have to be friends with everyone on the team or even like them but you’re the leader or one of on the team. Isolating yourself doesn’t make it easier for you, it will just make people irritated with you more. Brady and Peyton give their number to everyone on the team and they’re bigger than you, you can be out there more. Why would anyone give it their all or respect you. I wonder if him cutting everyone off happened because of the ex-wife rumors with Golden Tate.

We also had the let Russell cook, but every time he’d start as a MVP candidate and fizzle out.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Great posts, agree completely. I think Chris saying "shut up and play" is so true. The history of the NFL is a long, long, LONG list of guys who have played hurt, and drawn zero attention to themselves.

RG3 had his career ruined when he went from having a partial ACL tear, to playing in a playoff game where he in no uncertain way should have been cleared (and the team doctor didn't clear him), to Shanahan throwing him out there, and a full double tear of the ACL & MCL was it. I don't recall RG3 drawing any attention to his injury at all during that entire time, before or after, other than saying he wanted to play.

I can't quite figure Russell out. Is his ego really so big he needs to have attention draw to himself like this? Or is he just not thinking, or thinking he's telling factual information, so it won't matter?

Some talk this week about how John Schneider should unanimously win executive of the year. Not only are the Seahawks playing well, they had what seems to be a superb draft, plus dealing Wilson is one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history (so far, and it sure looks like that won't change much). It was said Schneider gave up too much to get Jamal Adams, but that's only really because Adams has been hurt. But that questionable trade pales in comparison to the Brinks Job Schneider and Carroll did in robbing the Broncos.

I'll be really surprised if the Ravens can't beat the Buccaneers. Though I'm sure TB will put more more points than they did last week.