National Football League

[Alpe d'Huez]

Ostweiller didn't throw at the Combine either. What does that tell you? Case Keenum threw poorly there, which bumped him way down the draft. As I noted, the best QB at the Combine was Weeden. Kirk Cousins threw fairly well, but not with as strong of arm. Weeden had a better pro day. Actually, if you go back to the college bowl games, Weeden outplayed Luck head to head, and played better than RG3, Cousins, Tannehill, and probably everyone else. But he's 28, so...

RG3 and Luck did however throw extensively at their pro-day. Both looked great.

Agree, the team and system the player is drafted under will dictate a great deal. Hence, the luckiest QBs over the last decade are probably Eli Manning and Tom Brady. Picture them playing for Cleveland and Buffalo...

BTW, College Stats are absolute useless. Guess who this two Div. I QB´s are:
a.) 57.7%, 7.3 Y/A, 74/64 TD/Int (42-6 W-L-Team-Record in his career = .875 W-Pct.).
b.) 64.0%, 8.4 Y/A, 66/36 TD/Int (35-4 W-L-Team-Record in his career = .897 W-Pct.).

Vince Young and Matt Leinhart? Tim Tebow and Mark Sanchez? (I'm blindly guessing and not going to look it up).

Generally true most college stats are useless. College systems are so different. The level of play different. Remember Timmy Chang anyone? Threw 60 times a game in a spread offense. Every pass was a quick slant, rub or screen. Great way to pile up monster stats. Guy never played a down in the NFL. You have to watch players within their system, and in key games they play. Then evaluate them accordingly.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Yes. At least Luck could have only lost by showing up. But RGIII? He might have moved up to No. 1 like Russell did, or ...

RG does not want to move up to #1. When asked recently to work out for the Colts along with Luck, RG3 turned the Colts down. It is pretty clear he would rather not play for the Colts.

Agree, the team and system the player is drafted under will dictate a great deal. Hence, the luckiest QBs over the last decade are probably Eli Manning and Tom Brady. Picture them playing for Cleveland and Buffalo...

That would have been interesting. Like him or not, Bellicheat helped make Brady what he is.

Vince Young and Matt Leinhart? Tim Tebow and Mark Sanchez? (I'm blindly guessing and not going to look it up).

I think you are on the right track, but I don't know who those stats belong to either.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Who knows? If i had a say for the Colts, they better draft RGIII.

Off Topic:
How you use the permanent "link" "Gingrich-Palin The Dream Ticket" in your posts? I´d like to do the same, having a link to the "GGTG 2012". Thanks in advance.

Hey Foxxy, wie gehts's Alter?

I sure hope the Colts don't listen to you, I want RG3.

That's just a 'normal' signature, which you can set in your profile. I believe that you can also put a link there, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[User Guide]

deja vu

Havent we(or moreover the colts) been here before ie 1998.Limited upside,weak arm etc etc how did that work out for the colts? Warner Breeze,Brady Manning(s) none have a howitzer for an arm but they have quick release read and adjust too defences and are accurate, that's what defines today's NFL QB.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The Colts have leaked that they are committed to Luck and have told him as such. The only thing I wonder is how much influence has Luck tried to push the Colts. If I were him, I would have been asking quite a bit of questions about building an OL and receivers for him. Maybe he did?

USA Today contacted two scouts who were critical of RGIII, saying he was "selfish" and questioning some of his skills. These were anonymous scouts, not Redskins coaches, and obviously don't represent everyone. If you follow that link and watch the video highlights, I call BS on their questioning his skills. The guy can make every throw. He doesn't quite have the NFL polish that Luck does, but watching him on his Pro Day, he's improved. His ego, I don't know about. Maybe he is selfish. But I'd much rather have a guy who wants to win every game big and crush everyone, than a headcase or quitter like Russell, Leaf, etc.

I can't tell if the talk about the Vikings looking to trade out from #3 as they aren't that excited about Matt Kalil is true, or BS just to see what they could get. But this could be a trade day move. We'll see.

I think the Browns are going to take Trent Richardson. The Browns need an RB, badly, and Richardson has been compared to Emmitt Smith.

Despite his scoring a 7 on the useless Wonderlick, I think the Buccaneers will take Morris Claiborne, not Justin Blackmon, who will fall to St. Louis. Speaking of, the Rams could be quite good in 2-3 years, especially if Steven Jackson can stay healthy.

Still think the Dolphins are going to take Tannehill. They missed out on Manning and Flynn, and need to do something for their franchise. If they commit to Tannehill sitting for most of the year, this could work. If Tannehill pans out, maybe.

Don't be surprised if the Browns take Weeden in the 2nd round. They need help at QB as McCoy may not be the guy, or may not even last. Weeden is the perfect guy to expect to start by mid-season, or sooner. KC would be the other place he could land for the same reason.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

With former NFL QB Oliver Luck as dad, I'd be shocked if Andrew did not ask about building an OL and/or receivers for him. But even without dad's input, son is smart enough to figure that one out on his own. That's my guess anyway, and the only thing that could maybe hold Luck back from asking those kinds of questions is just being too shy or lacking a certain maturity around older adults.

What were those scouts on? B.S. ...good call. If selfish = "I want the ball in my hands when the game's on the line", then that's good selfish. To be honest, I don't know what he's like either. But when was the last time you ever saw an NFL QB PLAY like a selfish QB? Might find one who's selfish but not PLAY selfish. (guys like Leaf don't count cos he had lots of other problems). We have seen a number of WRs who are selfish. And maybe a rare selfish RB. But QB??? And RG appears anything but selfish. On the contrary, he seems fairly humble... not the mark of a selfish person.

The Vikes trading down would actually be a shrewd move. They could still get a good lineman plus pick up some extra picks. And Kalil is not the best LT to ever come out. But he looks the best of this crop of draftees and would be hard to pass up. The question I have is at #3 overall would the Vikes be willing to pay #3 money for him? At the LT position, maybe, or maybe not.

I think you are right about Claiborne, Alpe, unless he's got some character flaws that are not public knowledge. Whoever drafts him should have a pretty clear idea though, since a "7" on the Wonderlick is kind of a red flag that should prompt some extra information gathering activity.

If the Fins take Tannehill, does that mean the Fins will have to trade up to get him, instead of sitting at #8 hoping he's still on the draft board then?

Weeden would be a great pick in the second round.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Havent we(or moreover the colts) been here before ie 1998.Limited upside,weak arm etc etc how did that work out for the colts? Warner Breeze,Brady Manning(s) none have a howitzer for an arm but they have quick release read and adjust too defences and are accurate, that's what defines today's NFL QB.

True. Joe Montana did not have a cannon for an arm either. I hear he was a pretty good QB.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Havent we(or moreover the colts) been here before ie 1998.Limited upside,weak arm etc etc how did that work out for the colts? Warner Breeze,Brady Manning(s) none have a howitzer for an arm but they have quick release read and adjust too defences and are accurate, that's what defines today's NFL QB.

True. Joe Montana did not have a cannon for an arm either. I hear he was a pretty good QB.

Those who had no arm: Frye, McNown, Mirer, Brennan, Booty, etc.... Where are they? Why did they got drafted?

Those mentioned above at least have a +avg. arm (Warner, Brady, Brees).

Manning? How many SB´s he won? Didn´t he bust every year in the playoffs? Even in the SB-Year he needed all the help in the world to prevail. Actually he had one good half the entire post season that year (vs. NE). Sometimes i wonder why people fell in love with that guy. He choked when the going got tough.

That leaves Montana. The exception to the rule (as Young who busted in TB, as Grbac, as Bono). I give all credit in the world to Rice and Walsh that every QB (except Druckenmiller, omg must he have been bad if he even couldn´t make it in SF) shone in SF during the 80/90s. It was all about the system and the offensive talent around the QB´s.

To cut it short: Every QB who makes it a long term starter in the NFL can throw accurate and read defenses. But if your physics are limited nothing in the world helps to improve arm strength.

Conclusion: I´d rather take a accurate and strong armed QB than a accurate QB with a butter arm.

Simms: "I just don't see big time NFL throws (by Luck). I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you’ve got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there’s not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I’m not saying you’ve got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there’s four or five plays a game it is about arm strength."

Agree 1.000 %. Take 4 throws times 16 = 64 passes a season that are either completed or (if weak armed) incomplete, intercepted, or the QB is sacked. Man, that´s the difference between Mirer and Elway...

Anyway, not my intention to hurt, just my opinion.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

a.) 57.7%, 7.3 Y/A, 74/64 TD/Int (42-6 W-L).
b.) 64.0%, 8.4 Y/A, 66/36 TD/Int (35-4 W-L).
Guess who this two Div. I QB´s are.

Not Sanchez, Leinhart, Young, Tebow, Eli, Leaf, Russel, Brady, Bledsoe, Montana, Palmer. ...I'm stumped.

The Dolphins really are the reject team for now. Not only did they miss out on Mannnig and Flynn. I read that Alex Smith said he never even thought of signing with Miami, he just went to Florida to go to the beach. Ouch! Miami is a mess, and a great deal of hope is going to be placed on Tannehill. Poor kid. You think Luck's going to be in a tough situation? Miami might be considering skipping Tannehill, and starting the "Suck for Barkley" campaign about now. They could face stiff competition from Cleveland, Buffalo and Oakland though.

Some mock drafts have Luke Kuechly ending up in Seattle. He would be a great acquisition for them.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The QB with the 57% and worse Y/A & TD/Int ratio is Dan the Man Marino. The other guy was the starter at BYU after Young. His name is Robbie Bosco.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Not Sanchez, Leinhart, Young, Tebow, Eli, Leaf, Russel, Brady, Bledsoe, Montana, Palmer. ...I'm stumped.

The Dolphins really are the reject team for now. Not only did they miss out on Mannnig and Flynn. I read that Alex Smith said he never even thought of signing with Miami, he just went to Florida to go to the beach. Ouch! Miami is a mess, and a great deal of hope is going to be placed on Tannehill. Poor kid. You think Luck's going to be in a tough situation? Miami might be considering skipping Tannehill, and starting the "Suck for Barkley" campaign about now. They could face stiff competition from Cleveland, Buffalo and Oakland though.

Some mock drafts have Luke Kuechly ending up in Seattle. He would be a great acquisition for them.

Miami should be happy to have "missed out" on Manning. The millions thrown after a greedy guy who has yet to show that he is still able to perform are better invested in depth. Good move by Miami, while Denver will pay big time. And i think Elway is a real XXX. If he didn´t like Tebow he just should have kept his mouth shut.

What also annoys me is Coach Payton. He shall never be allowed to come back. And that fat ugly D-Coordinator should never be seen close to football fields at any level. After that it´s all greed: The Saints will go down fast (as Denver). Brees is greedy (as everybody nowadays), so cap money is thin for depth.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Agree 1.000 %. Take 4 throws times 16 = 64 passes a season that are either completed or (if weak armed) incomplete, intercepted, or the QB is sacked. Man, that´s the difference between Mirer and Elway...

You agree just 1% with Simms? (I'm just messing with you again.)

Kidding aside, I disagree somewhat. Ball velocity helps if it is accompanied by accuracy. It does not take a cannon to thrive in the NFL. Montana thrived. Okay, he had a system and he had Rice. But he did more than just survive didn't he? Bill Walsh was quoted as saying the year Mirer was drafted that he "was the next Joe Montana". And Walsh knew he did not have a strong arm. Mirer failed because he could not make good decisions. The QB that Mirer replaced in Seattle was Dave Kreig, who was another weak armed QB with small hands who could not hang onto the ball. But Kreig was a decent QB because he made good reads and adapted by getting timing down with his receivers, the best of whom was Hall of Famer Steve Largent. Kreig was almost always releasing the ball before the WRs made their breaks. Good timing and reads by a weaker armed QB can eliminate any velocity advantage a strong armed QB who lacks good timing and reads may have.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The Dolphins really are the reject team for now. Not only did they miss out on Mannnig and Flynn. I read that Alex Smith said he never even thought of signing with Miami, he just went to Florida to go to the beach. Ouch! Miami is a mess, and a great deal of hope is going to be placed on Tannehill. Poor kid. You think Luck's going to be in a tough situation? Miami might be considering skipping Tannehill, and starting the "Suck for Barkley" campaign about now. They could face stiff competition from Cleveland, Buffalo and Oakland though.

Some mock drafts have Luke Kuechly ending up in Seattle. He would be a great acquisition for them.

For sure the Fins are a mess. But Smith to the beach may just be what he is saying now. At the time SF was in the Manning sweepstakes, and so maybe Smith was also covering the bases in case Manning went to SF. But certainly Smith could have found a better team to go to than the Fins.

Kuechly to Seattle would be nice. Seattle can't really miss with their #12 overall. If Kuechly is gone when they pick they can go after DEs Coples or Ingram, and then pick up a LB in later rounds.

But all the talk in Seattle right now about offensive linemen could be a smoke screen. DeCastro would be a nice addition though too, but there is a good chance he will be off the board by the time Seattle picks.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Manning? How many SB´s he won? Didn´t he bust every year in the playoffs? Even in the SB-Year he needed all the help in the world to prevail.

Depends on the game. He was 1-1 in SB's. He had two bad playoff games against the Patriots, and in 2007 against the Chargers he turned the ball over on downs twice in the 4th Q. In 2008 he should have lead them to the SB, but that's the year SD tied the game late, and in OT won the toss and a few plays later kicked a FG to win, Manning never saw the ball late in the game or OT - This game as much as any other convinced the NFL to change OT rules. Payton could have made it to the SB in 2006 had Mike Vanderjagt not taken a bribe to miss that final kick.

I'd say that's better than many other QB's. Like, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Randal Cunningham, Jeff George - just to name a few guys with cannons for arms.

Agree SF's system helped QB's, that and Jerry Rice. Even Bill Musgrave looked good in that system. But it wasn't only the system, if so then Giovanni Carmazzi would have been the next Tom Brady. Montana did win 4 SB's, and has 3 SB MVP's after all.
Tom Moore says Andrew Luck has plenty of arm strength and has no idea where the criticism is coming from.

If Simms thinks Luck doesn't have a strong arm, he's not paying attention. Peter King reported on the nonsense as well.

Still think Luck has no arm strength? Here he is at Stanford's pro day. Throwing into a 15mph wind, the ball goes in a nice spiral 75 yards in the air. And not a hail mary. He hit the receiver almost perfectly in stride. Watch this and tell me he has a weak arm or can't make big NFL throws.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You agree just 1% with Simms? (I'm just messing with you again.)

Kidding aside, I disagree somewhat. Ball velocity helps if it is accompanied by accuracy. It does not take a cannon to thrive in the NFL. Montana thrived. Okay, he had a system and he had Rice. But he did more than just survive didn't he? Bill Walsh was quoted as saying the year Mirer was drafted that he "was the next Joe Montana". And Walsh knew he did not have a strong arm. Mirer failed because he could not make good decisions. The QB that Mirer replaced in Seattle was Dave Kreig, who was another weak armed QB with small hands who could not hang onto the ball. But Kreig was a decent QB because he made good reads and adapted by getting timing down with his receivers, the best of whom was Hall of Famer Steve Largent. Kreig was almost always releasing the ball before the WRs made their breaks. Good timing and reads by a weaker armed QB can eliminate any velocity advantage a strong armed QB who lacks good timing and reads may have.

You can win with a weak arm if you have deadly accuracy (like Montana*). Maddux and Glavine did it as pitchers.
But this are the expections to the rule. As you normally need a good fastball in MLB, you normally need a +Arm in the NFL. If you got one, you could even survive as the 2nd coming of "The Wild Thing" like Williams did with the Phillies in baseball or Brooks with the NFL-Saints.

* but you still need all the worlds talent around you to survive. Imagine Montana in TB. I guess he would have busted the same way there as Young did. Or look at Cassel in KC. Without the talent the weak arm is exposed. And herein lays the problem for Luck. He will go to a very weak team, every weakness will be exposed. I see dark days in front of the Colts. On the other side, take athletes with cannon arms like Newton and Vick. Their sheer presence turned around bad teams in a second.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Miami should be happy to have "missed out" on Manning.

What also annoys me is Coach Payton. He shall never be allowed to come back. And that fat ugly D-Coordinator should never be seen close to football fields at any level. After that it´s all greed: The Saints will go down fast (as Denver). Brees is greedy (as everybody nowadays), so cap money is thin for depth.

Well, all I know is I'm glad Seattle did not really enter the Manning sweepstakes in earnest.

Reports now are that the league (Goodell) will keep the options open for Gregg Williams to be reinstated, possibly allowing him to resume his NFL coaching career sometime in the future. My guess is Payton and Williams will not be reinstated for at least a year. Williams maybe in a couple of years. I think Payton reentering in NO is a certainty. Williams reinstatement will depend on how he handles himself during his suspension. Personally, I think an eye for an eye is appropriate, and what I mean by that is if there are any players who have had their career ended due to hits for bounty, then there should be no reinstatement. If a player misses one year due to injury from a bounty hit but is able to resume his career after that, then the suspension should be for at least one year plus one or two years for punitive measures. But if there is no admission of remorse and wrongdoing by the coaches, then there should be no reinstatement. Thoughts?

edit: jeez, all 3 online at one time... don't know if I can handle this multitasking stuff this late. I m about done fer. 11:30 here Foxxy.

You'd think the draft was tomorrow!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Still think Luck has no arm strength? Here he is at Stanford's pro day. Throwing into a 15mph wind, the ball goes in a nice spiral 75 yards in the air. And not a hail mary. He hit the receiver almost perfectly in stride. Watch this and tell me he has a weak arm or can't make big NFL throws.

This is really the topic anyway (Luck's arm strength / velocity). The play by play guy (if you want to call him that) said it was 70 yards, but Luck let go of the ball on the 25 yard line and came down into the arms (though dropped) at about the 2 yard line... so essentially a 75 yarder. With no wind, that ball goes maybe 85-90 yards. He's strong enough for my team.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Depends on the game. He was 1-1 in SB's. He had two bad playoff games against the Patriots, and in 2007 against the Chargers he turned the ball over on downs twice in the 4th Q. In 2008 he should have lead them to the SB, but that's the year SD tied the game late, and in OT won the toss and a few plays later kicked a FG to win, Manning never saw the ball late in the game or OT - This game as much as any other convinced the NFL to change OT rules. Payton could have made it to the SB in 2006 had Mike Vanderjagt not taken a bribe to miss that final kick.

I'd say that's better than many other QB's. Like, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Randal Cunningham, Jeff George - just to name a few guys with cannons for arms.

Agree SF's system helped QB's, that and Jerry Rice. Even Bill Musgrave looked good in that system. But it wasn't only the system, if so then Giovanni Carmazzi would have been the next Tom Brady. Montana did win 4 SB's, and has 3 SB MVP's after all.
Tom Moore says Andrew Luck has plenty of arm strength and has no idea where the criticism is coming from.

If Simms thinks Luck doesn't have a strong arm, he's not paying attention. Peter King reported on the nonsense as well.

Still think Luck has no arm strength? Here he is at Stanford's pro day. Throwing into a 15mph wind, the ball goes in a nice spiral 75 yards in the air. And not a hail mary. He hit the receiver almost perfectly in stride. Watch this and tell me he has a weak arm or can't make big NFL throws.

Was Luck in Armstrongs camp or seen with some mad doc like Ferrari?
That´s 15 yards longer then Mirer ever dreamed of. I am impressed. If you had given that link before, i´d have saved much time tipping.
I think Simms fooled me. Never listen to experts, only trust yourself.
So the only way he can bust now is b/c of poor talent around him and/or mega pressure makes him fold. You won the battle cleanly. I am convinced.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Can't tell if you're completely serious or sarcastid?! He definitely has an arm. But I do agree that if the team can't surround him with decent players, and coaches can't come up with a good plan, it won't do him any good.

I think Sims is just jealous because both of his sons busted as QB's.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Depends on the game. He was 1-1 in SB's. He had two bad playoff games against the Patriots, and in 2007 against the Chargers he turned the ball over on downs twice in the 4th Q. In 2008 he should have lead them to the SB, but that's the year SD tied the game late, and in OT won the toss and a few plays later kicked a FG to win, Manning never saw the ball late in the game or OT - This game as much as any other convinced the NFL to change OT rules. Payton could have made it to the SB in 2006 had Mike Vanderjagt not taken a bribe to miss that final kick.

I'd say that's better than many other QB's. Like, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Randal Cunningham, Jeff George - just to name a few guys with cannons for arms.

Agree SF's system helped QB's, that and Jerry Rice. Even Bill Musgrave looked good in that system. But it wasn't only the system, if so then Giovanni Carmazzi would have been the next Tom Brady. Montana did win 4 SB's, and has 3 SB MVP's after all.
Tom Moore says Andrew Luck has plenty of arm strength and has no idea where the criticism is coming from.

Other then Luck i can´t be fooled by the Mannings. I saw every (playoff) game of them with my own eyes. Vanderjagts bribe was sure, but Manning was so nervous in that game, he fell behind early and big. He was a complete disaster in many other games (like vs. NYJ, KC, NE many times, BAL, etc. etc.). I call him since long "Nervous Playoff Peyton". He couldn´t even beat Norv.
Moon won 6 (?) Grey Cups and was victim of obscure prevent tactics of his defense. George never had a team. He made the best out of what he got. Marino played most years w/o defenses. Cunningham i agree. Only late in his career he learned to be a pocket passer. It was just too late, time run out. Sad story.
Favre i agree 100%. Never liked that guy. Only famous for his streak. A playoff choker like Manning.

Yeah true. Even Musgrave made it. LOL. Carmazzi came too late. The SF-Party was over already. Born 10 years earlier he might own 4 superbowl rings.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So the only way he can bust now is b/c of poor talent around him and/or mega pressure makes him fold.

This is exactly why (poorer talent around him & pressure) Bleacher Report said RG3 would do better in Wash his first year than Luck would do as a Colt, because Wash was a much better team than the Colts. It will be interesting to see though how it all unfolds. I am not so sure as Bleacher Report because Luck has the pro-style offense down, whereas RG3 has not played in that kind of system and has a lot of catching up to do. We'll see.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Can't tell if you're completely serious or sarcastid?! He definitely has an arm. But I do agree that if the team can't surround him with decent players, and coaches can't come up with a good plan, it won't do him any good.

I think Sims is just jealous because both of his sons busted as QB's.

I am serious. No kidding here.
I know people never accept defeat. I am different. If you lost, admit it, the world would be a better place.
I now think 5-11 Colts is a little low. I´d raise that to 8-8. He got the arm to shake off some lousy OL-Performance. And the receivers are still good. Or did the Colts release one of their WRS?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I think Sims is just jealous because both of his sons busted as QB's.

Oh, OUCH! You are Tough! Good thing this is a cycling forum and not an NFL forum. You'd be found out.

As a rabbit trail... I liked Sims, who took a lot of undeserved crap from The Tuna, who had his reasons for tossing the crap his way. The way I looked at it, Sims was good so to keep it from going to Sims head, The Tuna would rake him over the coals publicly to bring him back down to earth. The Tuna was always easy on Sims in the press when Sims had a bad day. All that = The Tuna's reverse psychology at work.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

This is really the topic anyway (Luck's arm strength / velocity). The play by play guy (if you want to call him that) said it was 70 yards, but Luck let go of the ball on the 25 yard line and came down into the arms (though dropped) at about the 2 yard line... so essentially a 75 yarder. With no wind, that ball goes maybe 85-90 yards. He's strong enough for my team.

Yop. It was around 75. But where does it come with the wind? I don´t see any, and the reporters don´t talk about it. 75 at zero wind is pretty impressive anyway. Mirer couldn´t ever do it even if he would have a stong hurricane behind him and throwing downhill.

85-90 would be crazy. The farthest i heard of were 84 by Favre and Bo Jackson. 80+ by Vick, George of course, Schroeder, Dent, Testaverde, Clifford Madison.

There are internet rumours that Bishop threw 93. But that´s what it is. Internet rumours. Unless i´d see footage of it, i take it as fairy tale.

The strongest i ever saw and still don´t believe was Davey throwing 75 from one knee (!) the day before the world bowl. Sad story Beli-Cheat only let him throw dump offs in pre season. He never got a chance to show his real talents like he did in the NFL europe, when he threw darts and all LB´s pretented to be DB´s. That was a once in a lifetime show live here in Berlin.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Have watched now the whole 14 mins video. He released the ball at the 25 and it came down at the 2. That´s 73 net. He had to wind up a little and the ball wobbled a bit. But now comes the fooling: They changed the direction. The whole time he threw against the wind, but the long throw was with the wind (take care of the signs at the end of the endzone).

Conclusion: 73 with wind is the max. he can throw. I guess that´s around 67 at zero wind. I´d call that an slightly above average arm, but no monster arm.

So Simms wasn´t that wrong, since the press lied a bit with that "throw into the wind".

What we get here is a guy who could have trouble to complete the 3/4 strong throws needed per game (tight windows, late game, 4 defenders in his face).

The truth seems to lay somewhere in the middle between Simms and the hype. So i back off again to a more reasonable 6-10 season.