National Football League

Page 50 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 22, 2009
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I don't believe you guys!:eek:

Nearly three pages added since I last looked in yesterday! In April. On a cycling forum! Thanks for all this incredibly informative input!;)

(Even if a lot of it is Greek to me):eek:

Redskins have sixth-easiest NFL schedule

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-have-sixth-easiest-nfl-schedule/2012/04/18/gIQAvGDsQT_blog.html

Taking the measure of Robert Griffin III

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/taking-the-measure-of-robert-griffin-iii/2012/04/19/gIQAfD2yTT_blog.html
 
Good God. The pass from Luck was still right on target. I'll bet my house he's no Rick Mirer (and don't remind me Mirer was ROY, his career was a bust). The Colts may still finish 6-10, but we won't be here in a couple years going "if only he had a stronger arm..." or some such nonsense.

Payton Manning actually did win a SB, and had quite a few good games. Probably more poor playoff games than good, but he's still damned good. But yes, he blew some key playoff games, and as such I'm not picking Denver for the SB next year, though they could win that weak division (unless KC does, as they have a lot of talent overall).

If you ask me Warren Moon is one of the most overrated QB's ever. He threw for 60,000 yards, with 50,000 of them being between the 10 yard lines. He was great at piling up stats in games that didn't matter, or were out of reach. If I'm not mistaken, he didn't win a single playoff game. The whole six Grey Cup thing means little to me. Teen among boys. Bring him to the NFL, and he lost in the clutch more than Manning. More than Marino.

Favre was overpraised as well, similar to Manning(s). He had some great games in GB, and did win a SB. But after that, he never again rose to that level in a meaningful game, and lost some very bad games in the playoffs. And I mean he lost them.

As I recall, Jeff George had attitude issues and didn't get along with some of his teammates and coaches. He blew as many plays and seemed to give in too often and was tossed around the league quite often.
 
Yes Amsterhammer, some of us are die hard fans. But believe me, once the draft ends and the hype with it fades, there is no football talk until August, which will probably include this thread as well.
on3m@n@rmy said:
As a rabbit trail... I liked Sims, who took a lot of undeserved crap from The Tuna, who had his reasons for tossing the crap his way.
A little story for you. When Simms got hurt, he was replaced by Jeff Hostetler, who won the Superbowl that year. The next season a retired Parcells was replaced by Ray Handley, who started Hostetler instead of Simms. This was near the ends of Simms career, but the Giants slid either way and Handley was fired into obscurity.

What's so interesting about that? Well, that period of Handley's career between Stanford and the NY Giants he was actually my HS football coach! No, I didn't make the team. I was too little, and mostly into other sports then (swimming, XC, tennis). But Handley was both a math teacher, and the varsity coach. After I graduated, he led the school to the state championships, but they lost. Many of his players went onto college, several playing for Chris Ault at Nevada. And a couple to the NFL, though never really made it. A few of my classmates tried to stay in touch with him as he still lives in the area (near Lake Tahoe). The "kids" say he's nice to them, but almost a hermit and pretty private. It's as if he was a math professor from Stanford first and foremost, and his personality was not meant for NY or the NY press, and he was hurt by the way he was so ruthlessly treated there.
 
The world has its calendar year, business have different fiscal years (e.g. typically Oct-Oct), and the NFL could easily be April-April if not Feb-Feb. Unless something crazy happens, like Favre comes out of retirement, this thread will be pretty idle until July or August.
 
RGIII addressed the claim that he's "selfish" today. I thought he handled it with aplomb:

"It's just when the draft gets closer, everybody's going to try and find something wrong with you to try and pull you down, so I'm not going to sit here and argue that, well that guy is dead wrong."

Reminds me of the criticism that Luck has a weak arm. Wise for Luck to ignore it.

As to his "lack of skills" some scouts reportedly claimed he had, NFL Network chief draft analyst Mike Mayock dismissed them. "I haven't seen any of that". Maycock is big on RGIII.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
RGIII addressed the claim that he's "selfish" today. I thought he handled it with aplomb:

"It's just when the draft gets closer, everybody's going to try and find something wrong with you to try and pull you down, so I'm not going to sit here and argue that, well that guy is dead wrong."

Reminds me of the criticism that Luck has a weak arm. Wise for Luck to ignore it.
Agree 100% for both athletes. That RG3 response shows his maturity. Good job by RG. I'm liking him more every time I hear something about him. Same kudos for Luck, although I'd give a bit more props to RG because that attack on him has more to do with his character, whereas the attacks on Luck's arm strength have nothing to do with character.

I wonder what's wrong with whoever (a flock of wha whas) is saying those things about RG. May not be in this case, but I would not put it past some teams who draft a tad lower than the Skins hoping to put a bit of doubt in the Skins heads so they'd pass on RG3. Nice try if that's it.
 
May 21, 2010
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I don't think he'll drop very far. He seemed rather contrite about it, and there isn't much indication he didn't come to the combine ready to play. Mike Maycock of NFL.com says it's not the issue it was a decade ago, and teams are more concerned about violent streaks that some guy who smoked weed.
1 strike though, next one misses games,plus isnt the first red flag on this guy.Its not like its a random test.
 
I should start a blog, seriously.

First, let's put the "selfish" thing to rest. Former Baylor player Dan Hill wrote in the Seahawks Field Gulls report:

"My first impression of Robert was that he was a diva. As I spent more time with him, and got to know him better, I realized that my first impression could not have been further from the truth...He is the type of dynamic football player that can carry a team and he is the type of person that can inspire and lead a locker room."

Hill wrote that over three months ago.

Next, if you watch video of RGIII in his sophomore year versus his junior year you can see a difference. As a sophomore he threw a lot of screen passes, and ran a fair amount as a second option. When it got to this past season, he started to realize his potential. He was throwing the ball down the field much more with accuracy. And he was more comfortable in the pocket looking for 2nd, 3rd options. No, not a pro-set against an NFL defense. But you could see him grow. He looked even better at his pro-day. I'm sure Shanahan will use his skills and work with them to have him look for quick passes, on moving pockets and roll outs. I would. I can only guess that some of these scouts were looking for flaws, and weren't paying attention to changes or growth.

Next, Greg Rosenthal, editor at NFL.com posted about this, and noted the accuracy of scouts (Foxxy will love this part):

"Before we take any one scout's opinion too seriously, keep in mind that 16 of 24 scouts polled last year preferred Blaine Gabbert to Cam Newton. Translation: No one knows anything"

Now that you've swallowed that grain of salt, here's the full McGinn article talking about why 17 of 20 NFL coaches or scouts polled chose Andrew Luck as the best player in the draft. But there's much more to the story than that. A good, detailed read.

Finally, who is the QB that is going to be taken in the 3rd-6th round and end up starting and playing well in a couple years? My pick is either Nick Foles of Arizona or Austin Davis of Southern Miss.

Also curious where David Wilson of VT goes (RB). He was ACC player of the year, and apparently looked great at the combine, fast, strong, and catching every pass thrown his way. Today's NFL has to love RB's like this.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Hi guys, followed all the links. I think they take it very easy with drugs in football. Just to remind you: In cycling "they´d kill ya". Just to put it in perseprctive.

BTW: i am totally drunk now, i would not pass any drug/dope/whatever test... :eek:
 
May 18, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
RGIII addressed the claim that he's "selfish" today. I thought he handled it with aplomb:

"It's just when the draft gets closer, everybody's going to try and find something wrong with you to try and pull you down, so I'm not going to sit here and argue that, well that guy is dead wrong."

Reminds me of the criticism that Luck has a weak arm. Wise for Luck to ignore it.

As to his "lack of skills" some scouts reportedly claimed he had, NFL Network chief draft analyst Mike Mayock dismissed them. "I haven't seen any of that". Maycock is big on RGIII.
I saw the back end of Gruden's QB special today on RGIII. That guy is gonna be a stud. I honestly don't know who I would pick between the two, but if I was in Washington's position I would be too concerned.

BTW somebody upthread said the original ACDE sang "it makes good good sense". That was a verse from the song "RocknRoll Aint Noise Pollution" off Back and Black, the first album after Bon Scott died so not the original group.
 
ChrisE said:
I saw the back end of Gruden's QB special today on RGIII. That guy is gonna be a stud. I honestly don't know who I would pick between the two, but if I was in Washington's position I would be too concerned.

BTW somebody upthread said the original ACDE sang "it makes good good sense". That was a verse from the song "RocknRoll Aint Noise Pollution" off Back and Black, the first album after Bon Scott died so not the original group.
First things first. You got that right... about both QBs Luck and RG3.

That was me quoting AC/DC, and you also got it right on the song title "RocknRoll Aint Noise Pollution". :cool: But that was the easy one. Did you get my connection to Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good" in the link to "a flock of wha wha's"?
on3m@n@rmy said:
If you did, then you are really good. Joe Walsh - Life's been good... the flock's at the end of the track starting at 8:09.

Sorry all for getting off topic.
 
Four days until the draft.

Listening to Gruden today talking with some more QB's. Gruden is both very knowledgeable, and he has this streak where he likes to blab about nonsense. I heard him talk with Tannehill and Weeden. He never really asked them any pointed questions. Tannehill seems very eager to please, and Weeden seemed just prepared. But I didn't gather much from either.

Talk on ESPN with some guys thinking Wisconsin's Russell Wilson may move up the draft. They were talking about his athleticism and accuracy. One guy said he could be the 4th QB taken, he has that much talent. Uh, did any of them notice Wilson is about 5-10, and maybe 200lbs? He's smaller than Kellen Moore or Case Keenum. Go back and watch a highlight reel of Colt McCoy getting squished in the NFL. Now understand that Wilson is smaller than McCoy by a couple inches and 15lbs lighter. When was the last time a tiny QB made it in the NFL? Doug Flutie? And even with his rocket arm he didn't have much of a career.

The other QB moving up appears to be Brock Ostweiller, who didn't even throw at the Combine. But he's 6-7 and over 240lbs, oddly enough, the opposite end of the spectrum of Wilson.

But if the emotions and desperation of last year is any indication - 4 QB's taken in the first 12 picks - Newton, Locker, Gabbert and Ponder - I wouldn't be shocked if this year is the same with Tannehill, Weeden, and maybe Ostweiller taken in the 1st round. Cousins, Foles, Lindley, Davis and maybe Wilson could follow in the 2nd.

Interestingly enough, looking back to 2011's QB's. The best was Cam Newton, the 2nd best was Andy Dalton, taken in the 2nd round. A guy who slipped in scouting (probably a low Wonderlic score), but immediately asserted himself as the starter in Cincinnati and lead his team to more wins than Newton and into the playoffs. Locker didn't play much (lucky for him), but looked okay when he did. Gabbert had one good game, and about 8 bad ones, before mostly being benched (and scouts were very high on him), and Ponder had a positive attitude through some very rough going. The next QB taken after them was Nevada's Colin Kaepernick going to SF. Kaepernick got through the Combine and Pro Day with some scouts thinking he was the most accurate passing QB in the draft. He just didn't see the entire field and ran too much as a 2nd option in college. Now, sitting two years behind Alex Smith, and learning Harbaugh's system could prove very fruitful for Kaepernick. Quite possibly better than 5 or so QB's drafted in the 1st round last or this year.
 
THE FOXYBROWN ANNUAL QB ROAST!

In a few posts upthread, Foxy managed to diss some of the most highly regarded QBs in history, including Montana and Young (anyone could have flourished in Walsh’s system, particularly throwing to Jerry Rice), and Favre and Manning (postseason chokers), to go along with his prediction that Luck will flop (subject to revision based on wind speed and direction).

I could point out that Montana won 2 SBs without Jerry Rice. Or that Young never started while Walsh was coach. Or that Favre played pretty well in the SB against Denver (engineered a record 98 yd drive, tied the game in the 4th quarter on another long drive with just four passes) and the title game against NO (set a playoff record for passing yards). Or that Manning has had his postseason moments, such as the first 2 playoff games in 2003, when he had a perfect rating in one game and Indy scored a combined 79 points in the 2 games; 460 yards and 4 TDs in the 2004 WC game; or the playoff victories against the Ravens and Jets, both with excellent defenses, in 2009.

But Foxy has a good point. These guys all have flaws. In this spirit, I want to point out some other famous QBs who were overrated:

Johnny Unitas: Won one SB, though he played less than half the game. Completed well under 60% of his passes, had a TD/interception ratio barely above 1.0, not even in top 50 in passer rating. This despite having Ray Berry and Lennie Moore to throw to.

Was probably most famous for winning the so-called “greatest game every played” against the NY Giants (in those days, the Giants did not get lucky in big games). The Colts blew a big lead in that game, otherwise it never would have gone to OT. And everyone knows the Giants would have won if they hadn’t been jobbed by a referee on a first down.

If he were in today’s draft: While showing good leadership skills, accuracy definitely a problem. Too many turnovers. Projected as a late round choice.

Joe Namath: Barely in top 200 in passer rating, just ahead of Rick Mirer, and behind Derek Anderson, Kyle Boller and Rex Grossman. I mean, how bad do you have to be to be ranked behind Rex Grossman? And that was despite padding his stats with all those short squareouts.

He was most famous for engineering one of the biggest upsets in SB history. Except that he didn’t really do much in that game, getting his team into the endzone only once against a relative weak defense. The Jets didn’t win SB 3. The Colts lost it, because their MVP QB choked, not just missing his receivers, but not even seeing them.

If he were in today’s draft: Injury prone, and attitude problems (known to like to stay out all night partying). Questionable whether worth drafting at all.

Terry Bradshaw: Passer rating almost as poor as Namath’s, trailing Grossman, Kerry Collins and Tarvaris Jackson! Granted, he won four SBs, but even Tim Tebow could have won SBs with that Steeler team. They had one of the best defenses in NFL history and an excellent running game. Plus two HOF wide receivers. Bradshaw was basically a game manager, the Alex Smith of his day.

If he were in today’s draft: Big with strong arm, but not highly accurate. Uncomfortable passing the ball a lot. Would never make it as a starter in today’s pass happy NFL. Might be a decent backup.

Dan Fouts: Never even got into a SB, let alone won one. Put up monster numbers because his team had no running game, and threw on almost every down. His team’s HC was an offensive genius who could have put up lots of points with any QB. Team loaded with great receivers like James Lofton and Kellen Winslow who made Fouts look good.

If he were in today’s draft: A dangerous pick, because likes to gamble, throwing into coverage. Not clear if he even knows how to hand off to a RB, having had so little experience at it. Would require lots of patience to develop.

Dan Marino: Never won a SB, and played poorly in the one he got to. Like Fouts, put up big numbers for a team with great WRs (Super Duper, Clayton) and no running game. Set the passing TD record, later broken by Favre, because the team literally had no way to get into the endzone except through the air. Would take a sack rather than throw the ball away in order to hold down his interception numbers.

If he were in today’s draft: Proven loser in big games. Even one of the all-time greatest HC’s ever can’t win in the postseason with this guy. Not worth it.

John Elway: Lost three SBs by blowouts against vastly superior NFC teams. During his heyday in the 1980s, there were half a dozen NFC teams that could have beaten Denver or any other AFC team in the SB. When Elway finally managed to win a SB in the 90s (against Bret Favre, whom we all know choked in big games), it was by handing the ball off to his running back.

If he were in today’s draft: Has a cannon arm (threw an 80 yd pass against Cal in college, passes routinely thrown so hard that it leaves a mark, known as the Elway Cross, on the palms of his receivers). Good scrambler. But can’t win big games on his arm. Needs a run-oriented offense to take the pressure off him.

Tom Brady: Won three SBs, because his coach cheated. Since the cheating came to light, has played consistently poorly in the post- season. Passing stats not that impressive until Randy Moss and Wes Welker and most recently Aaron Hernandez joined the team. Relatively immobile.

If he were in today’s draft: Can’t win big games without “help”, and by help we don’t mean his teammates. On a level playing field, where he actually has to guess what the opposing defense will do, he gets leveled.

Drew Brees: Won one SB, because he got to play against postseason chokers (Favre and Manning). Otherwise, has not done much in the postseason. Puts up monster numbers in the regular season because he is surrounded by the best offensive talent in the NFL, and has a genius HC who could win with anyone, especially by breaking the rules.

If he were in today’s draft: Too tiny for the NFL at 5’11”. Would never get his passes off against monster DL. Maybe a late round choice.

Quote of the Day:

"Every one of us in this business who did this for a living is haunted by the specter of Jim Plunkett, who had nothing around him in his early years and ended up being injured and didn't reach his full potential until much later in his career because of it.
Former Colts GM Bill Polian, on the importance of building an offense around Luck.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120422/SPORTS03/204220343/Colts-Luck-will-need-help-analysts-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports
 
May 18, 2009
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Nice.

I'm sure he will be along with some pasted quotes from youtube to confirm your assessment. :cool:
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Basically it comes down to this:
Your QB is as good (or bad) as the other 10 players around you. Stats (Rating, Y/PP, etc.) are most of time only useful when you see it as team stats. Perfect examples are Steve Young and Matt Cassel. Unlike baseball, individual stats normally don´t work in football.
Sure, the QB is the most important player on a team, but media gives too much credit to this one player. Studies were tried to extract QB-Performance from team performance. The conclusion was/is that the starter wins approx. just 1 more game then the replacement. But keep in mind, that the back ups do not get 1st team reps, are "rusty" when called upon, have less influence on On-Field-Descisons/Playbooks. What i mean is, your superstar QB may is allowed to call own plays, at least to audible; has influence on playbooks like Manning. But your usual Backup-QB has strictly to follow the plays called on the sideline, no matter how stupid they are. He´s got no influence at all in strategies etc. If you substract that all, i guess there is no difference between the No. 1 and 2 QB* on an NFL-Roster. Even sometimes the better QB sits on the bench b/c of some overpaid high draft pick (see Carr, Leinart, Russell, Couch, etc. etc. etc.).

* The real bad backups are usually gone after a few bad outings, while the high paid QB gets millions of chances until he´s benched.

To drafting QB´s: I linked one study in december (?), which says that there is no signifant (if at all) difference in NFL-Performance between high picks and low picks when looking strictly on per play stats. What it means? Either scouts don´t know what they do (as Alpe linked), or QB-Performance in college can not be extracted from team performance. Thus making it difficult to evaluate QB´s. But then why not looking strictly at arm strength and accuracy. Don´t let your brain be fooled by college film, stats and idiotic meassurments (ht, wt, wonderlic, vertical jump, 40-Dash, etc.). At least that´s what i would do.

Merckx index said:
I could point out that Montana ... Young ... Favre played pretty well...
Still Montana had the system. And before Rice he had Clark & Solomon (and world class sprinter Nehemiah). Also to mention is Taylor. Basically it was 5-yard-slant-in-soft-toss by Montana :D, and then Rice or Taylor sprinting 80 yds for the TD. Ok, that´s a very simple picture. But it happened a whole lot.

Young and Seifert inherited the players and system from Walsh. No new rocket science was needed. All the tools were there.

Manning had high highs and very low lows (like that 0-41 shutout to the NYJ). I guess every coach would like to have consistent performance instead of high variance, b/c the last game will always be the lowest low point. You just can´t win anything by doing that. 1 SB by each Manning and Favre says it all. From 2001 on, Favre stupid Int´s ruined every year, also the game vs. the Saints...

Merckx index said:
But Foxy has a good point. These guys all have flaws. In this spirit, I want to point out some other famous QBs who were overrated:

Johnny Unitas...

Was probably most famous for winning the so-called “greatest game every played” against the NY Giants (in those days, the Giants did not get lucky in big games). The Colts blew ...

If he were in today’s draft: While showing good leadership skills, accuracy definitely a problem. Too many turnovers. Projected as a late round choice.
You can´t compare ratings and TD/Int ratios of different eras. The rules in the old days really hurt the QB-Stats. You have to see it in the context of the era. Y/PP, rating, etc., he was way above his counterparts. He surley belongs to the HOF. He was allowed to throw as much as no one else back in the 50s. That means the coaches really trusted his arm. He was the early Marino...

I´d pick him No. 1. But only b/c in can look at it in a hindsight.

"The greatest game" isn´t the greatest. Rosenbloom bet 500.000 $ on the game, the line had to be covered. There was some obscure outside influence. Discussed well back in december...

The Giants got lucky in the 30s (sneakers game), the 90s and nowadays. Even the bad years can´t wash away the fact that they are the luckiest team ever. My opinion.

Merckx index said:
Joe Namath...

If he were in today’s draft: Injury prone, and attitude problems (known to like to stay out all night partying). Questionable whether worth drafting at all.
Same as Unitas. His stats were easily better then those of his counterparts. He was allowed to throw as much as possible. So coaches really trusted him. The only negative: He had the "McMahon sickness", speak too much injuries.

I´d take Namath, Ulle and McMahon over all the nice poster boys... They know/knew how to party. I don´t see a attitude problem here, since they all performed after partying. They must have enjoyed lots of unforgettable nights. I am jealous here. ;)

Alpe once posted a great link of this great QB.

I´d pick him No.1...

Merckx index said:
Terry Bradshaw...

If he were in today’s draft: Big with strong arm, but not highly accurate. Uncomfortable passing the ball a lot. Would never make it as a starter in today’s pass happy NFL. Might be a decent backup.
Agree and don´t. He started slowly. The D won him the 1st SB. But the other 3 SB-Seasons (and basically all his late years) he was great. Easily topping his counterparts in efficiency even tough of the real bad beginning. Sure, as Montana, great WRs help.

I´d pick him early in the 2nd round...

Merckx index said:
Dan Fouts...

If he were in today’s draft: A dangerous pick, because likes to gamble, throwing into coverage. Not clear if he even knows how to hand off to a RB, having had so little experience at it. Would require lots of patience to develop.
Sad story. The weather killed one season, two 5-Int-Games killed another two, and the D yet just another. Good talent around him surely helped (as this is true with almost every successful QB), but i doubt Coryell would have allowed some non talented guy like Mirer to throw on every down. There must have been (and surely is) something special about this QB.

No need to mention that his efficiency was way above his counterparts trou-out his career!

I´d pick him in the 1st round...

Merckx index said:
Dan Marino...

If he were in today’s draft: Proven loser in big games. Even one of the all-time greatest HC’s ever can’t win in the postseason with this guy. Not worth it.
The greatest ever. The team went from non passing to super effiecent passing inside his very 1st season. This guy is one of the rare examples where you easily can see the impact of one change in the line up. Wisely Shula let him throw it all out from his 2nd season on. Injuries hurt his game in the later years. Before that he was unsackable & unstoppable.

All but one playoff loss (before his late years) can be attached to poor performance.

He was light years in front of other QB´s.

Easy No. 1 pick...

Merckx index said:
John Elway...

If he were in today’s draft: Has a cannon arm (threw an 80 yd pass against Cal in college, passes routinely thrown so hard that it leaves a mark, known as the Elway Cross, on the palms of his receivers). Good scrambler. But can’t win big games on his arm. Needs a run-oriented offense to take the pressure off him.
I can remember my baseball teamate/friend choose No. 7 as his back number (i choose No 9, of course). We watched together his comebacks every year with wide open eyes. We knew magic is in the air before the games. He never disappointed us outside of superbowls. Finally he got his act together in his late years. Unforgettable moments even in the SB then (helicopter, bombs away vs. ATL).

No. 1 pick...

Merckx index said:
Tom Brady...

If he were in today’s draft: Can’t win big games without “help”, and by help we don’t mean his teammates. On a level playing field, where he actually has to guess what the opposing defense will do, he gets leveled.
Here i agree 100%. The system made the QB. The 1st SB-Win was fixed. There is no doubt in my mind. Warner got stolen 2 SB´s (see my december/january posts).
Still can´t believe how the public voted him MVP vs SL. He threw dumps offs vs a stupid prevent D, he made it trou the post season by the tuck rule, SpT-TDs and luck/outside influence. He basically had nothing to do with the first SB. The other wins were aided by great D performance and luck again (thank you stupid kicker of CAR, it still annoys up today). Once the passing O started to click, he choked every year in the playoffs.

Overrated guy.

I´d pick him as he was originally: in the 6th round...

Merckx index said:
Drew Brees...

If he were in today’s draft: Too tiny for the NFL at 5’11”. Would never get his passes off against monster DL. Maybe a late round choice.
Besides i don´t like his greed, he´s a heck of a QB. No rollercoaster performances like Manning, but consistency year in year out. Thank you fatty Williams to ruin two SB-runs in sucsession. :mad:

I don´t know how much fake is in this, but still impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoqA-LKGb4

Brees (next to Flutie, McMahon, etc.) is a perfect example what ht. means: absolutely nothing. But hey scouts, better pick tall QB´s of famous brothers (McGwire):rolleyes:

I´d pick Brees No. 1, no doubt about it...
 
Some amusing posts there. :)

Seriously, anyone can find the flaw in anything or anyone if they look hard enough. Witness RGIII's selfishness and lack of pocket passing, Luck's lack of arm strength, etc. etc.

So, Foxxy, if height means nothing, you'd take Russell Wilson with your #1 pick? ;)

Agree team talent (and coaching) has just as much to do with any QB, even if the QB is the leader of the team. Teams can get lost if they lose a starting QB they heavily rely on (Colts anyone?). But as I said many posts ago, if Eli and Brady were traded to Cleveland and Buffalo, does anyone think they would lead their teams to the Superbowl?

What I was mostly implying about scouting is that scouts and coaches often think with too much emotion or get transfixed on irrational intangibles. Brian Billick's comments on Ryan Tannehill being the perfect example. We've seen this time and time again, so much so I don't need to list all the players coming out of the draft this has happened with through the years. Even a casual fan can list many.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Given what you've said Alpe, what do you think of Luck and RG3's chances given the franchises they're joining?

I saw in another recent article that Aaron Rodgers was rated the best draft pick of the last decade or so. He is undoubtably a great QB and was clearly a great pick but the Packers also deserve credit for giving him time to learn and timing his arrival onto the big stage correctly.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Some amusing posts there. :)

Seriously, anyone can find the flaw in anything or anyone if they look hard enough. Witness RGIII's selfishness and lack of pocket passing, Luck's lack of arm strength, etc. etc.

So, Foxxy, if height means nothing, you'd take Russell Wilson with your #1 pick? ;)

Agree team talent (and coaching) has just as much to do with any QB, even if the QB is the leader of the team. Teams can get lost if they lose a starting QB they heavily rely on (Colts anyone?). But as I said many posts ago, if Eli and Brady were traded to Cleveland and Buffalo, does anyone think they would lead their teams to the Superbowl?

What I was mostly implying about scouting is that scouts and coaches often think with too much emotion or get transfixed on irrational intangibles. Brian Billick's comments on Ryan Tannehill being the perfect example. We've seen this time and time again, so much so I don't need to list all the players coming out of the draft this has happened with through the years. Even a casual fan can list many.
Sure, why not. And if it´s only b/c he looks a bit like Rohan Davey. ;)
If he has only half of his arm and accuracy, i´d take him.

Agree. And said it too: Brady somewhere else = we wouldn´t remember him... not even know about him. Same is true with Eli.

Brian Billick is an idiot. He has proven it many times. Omg, this guy was once called a QB-Guru. :eek: I think he got lucky to have Cunningham, Moon and Moss. Basically those guys made him look good, as seen with his total disaster in BAL (Boller, Dilf Dilfer and the no scoring offense).
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Ok. So a Franchise can kill a QB career. Is it not also true that a QB can kill a Franchise's chance of success for years as well. Even of the rest of team is at a high level?

Teams have had success with out having a stellar performing QB but not many and how bad were those QBs really?

Can a QB turn a franchise around? Everyone seems to think so.

The ability to develop the players and create playbacks that work for the players must surely be key. Also finding players that will fit into the system that is established.

I'd like to hear if anyone thinks any of the recent QB busts would have been successful if they'd gone elsewhere.

sorry, lots of questions in this post.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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a.) Sure QB´s can ruin franchises.
Russell cost the Raiders, Mirer did the same to them, even wild thing Kerry Collins had his hand on ruining the Raiders.
Since McMahon, every QB in CHI (except Kramer) ruined the Bears. Now they have a +average one. But his ego was/is to big to work together with the OC. So basically Cutler ruins CHI further.
Leaf stopped any progress in SD, Carr was sacked so often that HOU wasn´t alive until late, and so on...
The problem is that high drafted busts are kept too long in the line up...

b.) BAL survived despite Dilfer, NYG prevailed once with Hostetler "i wait as long until i am sacked"...

c.) "I'd like to hear if anyone thinks any of the recent QB busts would have been successful if they'd gone elsewhere". That´s a guessing game. I think Davey was in the wrong system (NE). He would have been perfect fit for the Raiders. Jeff George (whom i wouldn´t call a bust) had his best season as a Raider. That was a perfect fit. Indy was clearly the wrong place...
 

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