National Football League

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Jun 15, 2009
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Saw RG3 and Luck get interviewed with Michael Irvin on the NFL network today. Irvin asked both, "As you get ready to go up on stage when your selection is announced, what will be going through your mind?" RG answered second after Luck, but had the best response. He said he will be thinking of all the people since middle school who have helped him develop as a player.
And I :D Saw them both throwing at the Pro Day(s). First of all i like it, that nowadays we see more then ever before (thanks to internet).

2nd of all (more important):
Luck had a hell lot of wobbling throws (including that infamous wind aided 75-Throw) at the pro day. I saw NOTHING special coming out of his throws.

RG3: I was impressed with his wrist snap. Everything came at ease out of his hand w/o force. BUT, he was inaccurate on the long throws. Again, nothing special.

Conclusion: I´d not be surprised if both would bust., I am not sold at all...

But i still like RG3 more, even if it´s just b/c of the tight spirals he threw...
 
Well, now that you've got that out, looking down the draft, who do you think is the next Brady/Warner to be taken (or not drafted)?!

I've been watching Gruden's QB camp and all these other clips. What I like about Gruden is that he's like a coach out there, pushing these guys just a little. Not as hard as the NFL coaches will, but in the same vein. On Pro Day, the players gets to do what they want, really. Here, you get to see a coach they're not used to asking them questions, putting them through drills they may not be entirely comfortable with. As I said, I think Gruden's a little goofy, but he definitely knows football, very well. You can totally see he's a coach at heart, and I respect a lot of his opinions.

I've also been checking out some of the ESPN Sport Science stuff. Granted, some of this is hokey, unrealistic. But it is also informative. Watching Brandon Weeden hit the clay pigeons was more than intriguing.

And with that, I'm going to say what I would do if I were a team in this draft looking at QB's. If I needed a guy to start this year, I wouldn't draft a QB. I would do what Denver and Seattle did, and get someone proven from free agency. If I blew that and needed a guy to probably play this year, I would draft Weeden, at least if he's there in the late 1st round or 2nd. The guy may be older, but so what. He does have poise and a good arm (hitting clay pigeons or otherwise!). Plus, if he's going to bust you'll know within two seasons and can dump him before he's too old. He won't be sitting on your bench 3-4 years while you hope he can play. If I need a guy for the future, I'd start looking down the draft at guys like Cousins, Foles, Lindley, Davis, etc. knowing I could probably get them with my 2nd or 3rd pick, have them sit at least a year, probably two, and see what they have. I'd let other teams have Luck, RGIII and definitely Tannehill.

As Foxxy said, no offensive line, no quality play from the QB. I don't care who the QB is. Even scramblers like Tarkenton, Cunningham, etc. played much better when they weren't running all over. The only "scrambling" QB to ever win a SB is Steve Young. And he was primarily a pocket passer first.

I'm not saying the Colts should trade away Luck, or that the Redskins made a big mistake in trading to get RGIII. Both franchises desperately need those guys. But they need them for more reasons than just a new QB. They need a face for a troubled franchise. But I have to say I like what the Rams are ultimately going to potentially get for giving up RGIII. Provided they play their cards right in the future.

Also of note, every year about half the guys taken in the first round either flat out bust, or never amount to anything. After tomorrow's draft day I'll try to go down the 1st round and name guys I think will flourish, or bust, or just disappoint. I'll also try to look way down the draft and see if anything stands out. I'm not that knowledgeable about college, and NFL team's needs, but I'll give it a shot. We can dig my posts up later and laugh at where I'm wrong.
 
Give it a shot so can dig up your post later and laugh at where you were wrong? Well, we should have fun then! I mean that to be funny, because even the guys whose business it is to get the picks right at the draft screw it up half the time. And some of them lose their jobs over it (ahem... Ruskell just for example). But if you get it right then maybe you could be some team's next talent scout.

Anyway's on the next Brady/Warner thought, I have a guy in mind that I have not really watched much film of, but from what I hear and saw of him during interviews he has the swagger. He's got the head. And we've talked about him a bit here already, so he is a bit on the radar screen of teams and would not be a complete surprise. What coach was it, Knoll?, use to say he didn't care about 40-times, how far you can jump, and so on. He used to just put guys out on the field and watch how they play. And the guys who could play ball are the ones he'd keep. He didn't care how fast or how strong the guy was. But this guy I'm thinking of has some athletic ability, which is partly why he is on the radar screen. Wilson from Wisconsin. You know he is going to give it a go, full gas. So it will be interesting watching him in the future.
 
Wilson is head strong, and a decent arm. But the guy is smaller than any QB in the NFL today. He's actually shorter than Clemens or Keenum. Granted, Drew Brees isn't very big either. But that's not the norm. Most short or small QB's don't excel in the NFL. They just don't. Plus, I just haven't seen much of anything from Wilson that impressed me that much. I guess I'm also remembering the Rose Bowl against Oregon, a team with 90% offense, and 10% defense. Yet it was really Monte Ball that kept Wisconsin in the game, Wilson's stats were decent, but against that porous defense...

Couple hours to go...
 
Jun 22, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
But i still like RG3 more, even if it´s just b/c of the tight spirals he threw...
The oracle has spoken - RG3 throws better spirals, that's good enough for me.:p

I'm not staying up, but this is the first place I'll be checking tomorrow when I log on.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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"At the end of the chapter, he says, the authors tell the reader that none of these factors comes close to the only important one, which is having a father who also played major league baseball. So maybe it's just in the genes."

From this link:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7854614/2012-nfl-draft-andrew-luck-gained-father-oliver-luck

Agree here, as i did some posts ago (weekend): Besides all, it´s the genes. And there i saw a QB (Oliver) not that great. Anyway, i think Andrew will finish in the middle of critics (Simms, Foxxy ;)) and the hype. He won´t shock the world, but be a average usual Starting-NFL-QB.

If RG3 hadn´t had his problems i saw at the pro day, i´d say he could be the next big QB. Anyway, i expect him to be better than Luck.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Weeden to CLE in 1st round... how ´bout that alpe? Not much trust in McCoy anymore. Anyway, wish him all the best. He´s "old", not your prototype... may that´s the recipe for sucsess :D
 
Cleveland made good moves in the first round I thought. First the RB Richardson, then taking Weeden. Now they have some competition for the starting QB spot. Weeden will prolly win out. But that does not necessarily mean the end of the road in Brownsville for McCoy, although it could mean bye-bye. Considering Weeden's age, if I was McCoy I'd view myself as the next heir apparent (that is if he does not win the starting job) and just work my a$$ off to be in position to do that, or to position myself for a possible trade, which could happen too if the Browns get some nice trade offer for McCoy sometime down the road... maybe this year or years later. With Richardson, now they have a legit RB threat to take pressure off the QB. They are putting together some of the pieces of the puzzle.

A very interesting first half of the first round of the draft with lots of teams moving around after the #2 pick overall. Maybe the most surprising was my team's selection of a guy who was a late first rounder at best (based on troubles more than talent) or top second rounder. But the guy (OLB Bruce Irvin) has super athleticism and will cause QBs headaches with his pass rush (4.41 40, best in the combine on the cone drill, etc etc), which is what Seattle was seriously lacking. Reports are that all the negative historical stuff is behind him though.
 
Couldn't post last night, so here's a catch-up.

Luck's going to have a tough year. We all know that. I do think he'll be a good NFL QB, if the team can surround him with players. You'll see some of my thoughts below on this.

RGIII should end up ROY. Better team. I think he'll make a few more mistakes than Luck, but will show flashes of greatness.

Richardson is exactly what Cleveland needed, badly, after losing Hillis. He's probably the only good RB in the draft who just isn't likely to bust, as he's tough, very strong for his size, and can block and catch the ball, making him valuable on 3rd down.

Kalil - After all the talk, Minnesota took him anyway. I think they wanted him, and tried to make it sound like they didn't to pull this deal. Should do fine there.

Blackmon - Good pickup for a bad JAX team. But the team will still suck and I don't expect him to break any records.

Claiborne - Not shocked Dallas moved up and got him. He'll help as he can start right away. But don't expect miracles.

Barron - TB wanted Claiborne, but they need more than that, and he'll help a troubled defense. Can start right away, but don't expect greatness.

Tannehill - His only hope, only hope, is that Miami determines right from day one that he's going to sit maybe the entire season, and maybe his 2nd year as well. Maybe, maybe he'll be good after that. Maybe. I don't see them doing that in their desperation, and think he'll bust.

Kuechly - Rumor was Seattle was looking for him, but once off the board, they traded out. Will help Carolina. But nothing earth shattering like some predict. Maybe down the line.

Gilmore - Guy didn't look that happy being picked by Buffalo, and I thought he went too high. Don't expect to hear much from him this season.

Other picks after the top ten:

At 13 Arizona got a steal in Michael Floyd. No, Floyd isn't the next great WR. But the fact that he won't have to be the go-to guy, and can sit and relax while the pressure is on Fitzgerald (and Doucet), and learn, could do wonders.

At 14 St. Louis missed out on Blackmon and Floyd. They had all those draft picks, and didn't get either of the top two WR's. But Brockers is a big lineman who can contribute to a team that needs help everywhere.

At 15 - Seattle must know something about their team, and Irvin that we don't. I'm guessing they see their defense for next year, and don't feel they need a down to down player like Coples, Kirkpatrick, Ingram (who I thought they'd take), and that Irvin will fit.

At 20 - Kendall Wright went a little early to TEN. But this gives Jake Locker someone to throw to in a year or so, if he pans out.

Surprised to see NE trade up to get the 21st pick, but Chandler Jones can help them this year I think. The real steal may be their moving up to 25 and getting Dont'a Hightower. With him moving around in the LB spot and rushing the QB, I can see him fitting perfectly into Belichek's defense. Very good 1st round by NE.

At 22 Cleveland picked up Weeden, who will obviously be expected to compete for the starting job, and I think he will. Having Richardson on the team has got to factor in to why the Browns took him. One way or the other he'll probably be the starter before the end of the season. May have a good, if somewhat short career. I liked what Gruden said about him, and the fact in head to head games he beat Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, and Foles.

Surprised at 23 the Lions didn't look at defense, but Reiff, who will play RT and excels at the run. But he's physical and the Lions are looking long term.

At 24 I thought Pittsburgh made a good pick to get DeCastro. While people were expecting defense, the Steelers got a good OG prospect to help an aging team.

At 26 the Texans instantly patched a hole at DE by drafting Mercilus. Don't expect miracles, but they needed him, and he should contribute.

At 28 the Packers took Nick Perry of USC. This is interesting because they now have Matthews, Hawk, and Perry. This could be a shrewd pick as Perry is a blitzer. The Packers simply could not get to the QB enough last year, leaving themselves vulnerable to large gains by opposing teams. This will free up Matthews and Hawk to tackle and pass cover more.

At 30 the 49ers took Jenkins. If they had no one except Davis for Smith to throw to last year, this year they have Crabtree, Ginn, Moss and Manningham, and now Jenkins, plus Davis at TE. Like Floyd to AZ, he won't be expected to be a stud right away, and can learn. A solid pick. IF Alex Smith can continue to improve his passing game a little. But the 49ers also gave up too many sacks last year, so I'm curious what they do next.

At the end of the round the Buccaneers took Doug Martin at RB. He can block and receive, which Bount is weak at, so if Josh Freeman can play well...

The Giants also took a RB in David Wilson. this surprised the heck out of me. Yes, they had a terrible running game last year. But what I saw of Wilson didn't impress me that much, and the Giants have holes to fill at WR and on defense. Maybe they know something I don't. Probably.

Second round coming up.

The Rams will either take OT Gordy Glenn who a lot of people thought would go in the 1st round. If not, they'll take Coby Fleener, the Stanford TE. The Colts would love to get Fleener, obviously. So this should be interesting.

The Ravens traded their 1st round pick away, but have some decent spots coming up. They need some OL help, and DL help. Courtney Upshaw from Alabama is there, and if Glenn is there, they'll take him.

Celevland has the 37th pick, Holmgren has been shrewd so far in this draft, and I'm curious who they take. It has to be either a receiver, and if Fleener is there (he won't be) or Randle of LSU they'll take him. If both are gone, and they could be to the Rams and Colts, look for Steven Hill of GT to go.

Look for Seattle to be more conservative and take the best DL or DB on the board when they pick at 43.

The Rams have to get a receiver. Assuming Fleener and Randle are gone, Samu of Rutgers is there. But he's no Blackmon or Floyd.

I notice the Patriots have another pick at 48 and at 62. Look for another versatile LB or DB to fit Belicheck's system. I hate to say it, but if the Patriots can make use of these five top draft picks this high in the draft, they could be scary good this year.

Beyond there, it gets harder for me to pick. Leave it up to Gruden and Kiper and the other experts today.
 
pretty much agree with your analysis of the first 20 picks.

On Seattle's pick at 15 overall, they were not looking for an every down guy. They wanted a pash rusher and took probably the most explosive player in the draft at that skill. But the league is so much a passing league, he will play a lot, and make it easier for the DE on the other side of the line to get his shots at the QB, because now teams will not be able to hold a RB in to block the opposite side DE. Now they are going to have to pay attention to both sides of the line. On the checkered past of Irvin, he says he's a changed man for what he's been through. I only hope so for my team's sake (and his).

Look for Seattle to make another shocking move in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds.
 
OK, I'm already wrong on the Rams, who took Brian Quick, who wasn't even on my radar list.

Colts took Fleener though, which has to make Luck happy. Very obvious pick. Colts still need much more work though.

Cleveland took Schwartz even though Glenn was available at OT. Not a big surprise I guess.

Rams took a CB in Jenks. Then traded up to get not a WR, but a RB in Pead. Proving again how little I know.

Seattle took Wagner, which is a solid pick, not very controversial. Could end up as a defensive leader one day. Not a blitzer, but after getting Irvin...

Pats just picked up a hard hitting FS in Tavon Wilson. As I said this morning, if half of these high picks turn out good for the Pats, look out!

Packers selection of Worthy is no surprise.

Broncos could take Ostweiller or Cousins at 57. That would be interesting.

With some of these o-lineman slipping, the 49ers have to be happy sitting at 61. We'll see though.

More later as the picks progress.
 
Oops. Looks like McCoy's daze in Brownsville may be over. I hear Cleveland is shopping his name around for a possible trade.

Russell Wilson (Wisconsin) went to Seattle. That's a great pick for them. Remember who I thought the next Brady/Warner could be? Wilson. He is only 5'11", but he has the largest hands of all the QBs in the draft at 10-1/4", and he's long armed. Seattle is going to want to get Russell some reps so he can develop. I think this could signal the end for TJax in Seattle.

Texans addressed some of their need for OL, taking OG Brandon Brooks in the 3rd round. That's a great pick for them.

You guessed it Alpe. Denver took Ostweiller in round 2 (57 overall). Smart move. Let him learn from the best and hope he can take over the reigns when the best is finally done.
 
I notice Kirk Cousins still hasn't been taken. A bit of a surprise.

I think Russell may be a good pick for Seattle. I do think he's probably destined to be a backup QB. But he reminds me a little of Seneca Wallace. Not big, but tough, shrewd, and a great backup who started plenty of games. I agree it could mean the end of TJax, and if he's cut, it means Seattle sees something in Flynn that impresses them more than we know.

CBS Sports says it's a matter of when, not if, McCoy is traded. This means either they think they're going to get someone via trade (such as TJax), or Weeden is expected to start from day 1. If that's so, Holmgren and Pat Shurmur must think he will develop all he needs, and that he can handle a tough season. That's a lot to ask of any rookie, no matter who they are.
 
Wow, Cousins went to Washington! Two rookie QB's? This must say something about how little faith Shanahan has in Grossman and Beck. I'm still surprised they took him. I thought Arizona would later in the round. He's obviously going to sit, but when is he going to play? They must be hoping he's the next Matt Flynn or something.

Notice yesterday the 49ers took LaMichael James from Oregon. That guy was a highlight reel for the Ducks. But he didn't run well against big teams (Auburn, LSU). I see the Niners using him in a lot of 2nd and 3rd down situations as he can catch the ball, and is explosive.

Dolphins got RB Lamar Miller who a lot of people thought would go earlier. Potentially good counter to Reggie Bush.

Patriots and Packers filled a lot of defensive holes...provided they drafted guys who can pan out.

Todd McShay was on ESPN talking about what a great pick Ryan Tannehill was for Miami, and how the team is drafting players to build around him. With that, I predict two things: First, the Dolphins are going to suck. Second, if Tannehill plays at all this year, he's going to suck.

Raiders took their first draft pick...in the 4th round. Talk about another team who is going to suck. Al Davis traded away all their drafts and gave guys huge contracts in desperation to find a winner before he died, and it's come back to haunt them.

These mid rounds are hard to evaluate. Lots of guys won't ever make it, and a few will really stand out and surprise.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Interesting. I had Kellen Moore ranked higher than Russell Wilson.

where does Moore land as a free agent? Green Bay? Detroit? Pittsburgh?
 
Boeing said:
Interesting. I had Kellen Moore ranked higher than Russell Wilson.

where does Moore land as a free agent? Green Bay? Detroit? Pittsburgh?
Are you kidding me? Moore > Wilson? Wilson is far more talented. The only category where Moore might outrank Wilson is anticipation of when the receiver will be open. But he has to with his far weaker arm.

It is probably good that Moore did not get drafted. Undrafted, he has a greater choice of which team to go to. Believe me, there are some teams that do not have their QB depth situation worked out yet. Some teams will be calling him to come in as an undrafted FA.
 
I like that Mr. Irrelevant is Chandler Harnish, a QB going to Indy. Let the jokes begin about training camp competition between he and Luck. And let the bets begin to how long it takes for the Colts to stink with Luck before some fans want Harnish to start!

I like that Arizona picked up Ryan Lindley.

Several QB's not taken. Kellen Moore, Case Keenum, Austin Davis, Jordan Jefferson, Darron Thomas (who Bleecher Report called a steal).

Keep something in mind here, there will soon be a frenzy of free agency among a lot of undrafted players. Agents and teams phones will be ringing off the hook as teams add 15-20 players per team in the next week or so. Most of them won't sign, but some will. As to QB's, Oakland, Detroit, Tampa, Jacksonville, Carolina, San Francisco, Green Bay all may land one of these guys. Also remember, these guys are competing for the 3rd QB position, or waiting to replace guys who may get hurt or retire, or try to be the QB for practice squads. There stands a chance most of those we listed, and a few more, will end up somewhere. Some will get phone calls from several teams they can pick from. Moore is a good example. Though many may never play a down in the NFL.

With the way Tannehill and Weeden (and Wilson) shot up this draft, mark my words: Barring injury or disaster, in the 2013 draft Matt Barkley and Landry Jones will go 1-2. If Arkansas can recover as a team and he has a good year, you might be able to add Tyler Wilson to that for a 1-2-3.
 
I pretty much agree with all of that there Alpe, although it is hard at this time with the 2013 draft so far off to predict who will go 1-2 next year (e.g. Barkley-Jones) because there are so many variables that affect team needs. Who knows, even Jones and/or Barkley could get injured. But my saying that is just nit-picking because if everything goes well for both players and some huge need for an athletic guy in a skill position for an NFL team does not develop, then a prediction of 1-2 for Barkley-Jones is about as good as anyone can make right now.

Oh man, Harnish > Luck. I hope Indy fans don't go NY style if the Colts fail to generate wins next year. I noticed the Colts took 2 TEs, a WR and a RB in the draft to help out the passing game. I thought they drafted pretty smart. But like the Skins drafting Cousins, I thought the Colts and Skins kind of wasted picks on those 2 QBs.

Remember I said I thought Moore would not get drafted? Well, now if he signs as an undrafted FA, it may not even to be as the #3 QB. It may only be to have an extra arm in camp to take some of the throws off the real #1, #2, and #3 QBs... so they don't burn out their arms.
 
While no one knows for certain, there stands a chance all those undrafted QB's I listed may never get past practice squad. But some could go further.

I actually think Clemens may end up playing some games down the line. He doesn't have a great arm, and he's smaller than Wilson or McCoy. But he did make some great plays and won a lot of games in college playing in a pass-heavy set.

Agree with you in that I would not have drafted Cousins if I were the Redskins. He dropped way too low in the draft, that is true. But it was a wasted pick. Harnish it doesn't really matter that far down.

RGIII said today he was already in deep study with the Redskins playbook, that's exactly what you want to hear from a rookie QB, not about how happy they are to be in the limelight.

Dolphins owner Stephen Ross held up Ryan Tannehill's jersey today right in front of Tannehill and the press and and wondered aloud about if it would be a jersey they would one day retire. Uh, are you kidding me? In nearly 50 years of Dolphin history there are only three players whose jerseys have been retired. Grease, Czonka and Marino. That's it. What a way to set the kid up to have his confidence shattered.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
RGIII said today he was already in deep study with the Redskins playbook, that's exactly what you want to hear from a rookie QB, not about how happy they are to be in the limelight.

Dolphins owner Stephen Ross held up Ryan Tannehill's jersey today right in front of Tannehill and the press and and wondered aloud about if it would be a jersey they would one day retire. Uh, are you kidding me? In nearly 50 years of Dolphin history there are only three players whose jerseys have been retired. Grease, Czonka and Marino. That's it. What a way to set the kid up to have his confidence shattered.
No retired jersey's for Merc Morris or Paul Warfield? Yes, to say Ryan will one day have his jersey retired is really heaping the expectations on him.

I heard those comments by RG3 too. What he said was absolute perfection. Besides studying the playbook, he talked about how he is going to work hard to help his teammates and that this is not his team. He just has a very workman like, humble attitude. Plus he expresses these things so calmly and easily that I believe this is who he really is. He's not a put-on.
 
He talked about following veterans as well. Remember the talk about him being "selfish"??

If anyone wonders just how popular football is, the Oregon Ducks held a A vs. B practice scrimmage yesterday, and 44,000 people showed up to watch.

Now that the BCS is finally getting it's act together and coming up with some sort of playoff, in a year or two the BCS championship is going to be the 2nd most watched annual event on TV worldwide. Only the Superbowl will be bigger.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
He talked about following veterans as well. Remember the talk about him being "selfish"??

If anyone wonders just how popular football is, the Oregon Ducks held a A vs. B practice scrimmage yesterday, and 44,000 people showed up to watch.

Now that the BCS is finally getting it's act together and coming up with some sort of playoff, in a year or two the BCS championship is going to be the 2nd most watched annual event on TV worldwide. Only the Superbowl will be bigger.
Hahahaha. Oh yeah, I remember the selfish tag. The dude who said it will be wanting ppl to forget it.

It's about time the BCS has started to come around. I'll bet Kirk Herbstreet, who has been publicly against NCAA football playoffs, is still not in agreement. It will be interesting to see what he says about it next fall when he's covering games.

Common knowledge by now is Kellen Moore signed, or will sign, a free agent contract to be the #3 QB of the Detroit Lions. Teams are a bit fickle with the #3 guy, so it still remains to be seen if he will still be the #3 guy come September. But at least it is a more positive start for him than maybe I was expecting.

Draft grades: it is frustrating that you have to be an "insider" (meaning you have to pay money to get the information) on a certain unnamed network to get certain expert's draft grades. Bleacher Report has them free. They are pretty detailed, but I'm not sure how good a job they do of grading. They seemed to get the grade for the Seahawks fairly correct (B- overall). They actually grade each draft move... trades up/down and the picks. They originally gave Seattle a "D" for picking Bruce Irvin, but later upgraded that to a "B" when they found out more specific information on the checkered past of Irvin. bleacherreport.com seattle seahawks-2012-nfl-draft-picks-grades-results-and-analysis page 16

To get grades for each draft move and the overall, go to this Bleacher Report webpage:
http://bleacherreport.com/2012-nfl-draft
Then scroll down to select your team's draft grades.
In Seattle's case, the grades were summarized on page 16 of 17, so I suspect if your team has a 12 page slide show that the summary will be on page 11... at least close to that. TIP: you don't actually have to punch "NEXT" button to go to the next to last slide... you can replace the page number in the URL.

To get the overall grades for all teams (without grades for each draft move), the Bleacher Report final draft grades (34 pages) are here:
2012-nfl-draft-grades-full-draft-results-report-card
The slide show is in alphabetical order of the team (e.g. Arizona is 1st slide).
Just click the "NEXT" to start the show and keep clicking "NEXT" until you reach your team.
I don't think this link has the updated grades, as the example for Seattle getting a "D" upgraded to a "B-". It seems the link above ("http://bleacherreport.com/2012-nfl-draft") is more up to date.
 
You're as bad as Foxxy and me. ;)

I like Bleacher Report, one of my main sources. In their steals they listed Nick Perry. I believe I had him as one of the picks I pointed out. But I don't fully agree with some of their winner/losers either. For example, they also call Weeden a winner, but the Browns a loser. Then they complain its one of the biggest draft mistakes to take him. Though it's true he needs work, and guys to throw the ball to.

This has to be one of the most difficult times to speculate, both for coaches, and outsiders like reporters and us fans. Half of these guys could totally bust, and some could really surprise. So much guesswork.

I do however Agree with them about Cousins. That guy has to feel worse than anyone in the draft.
 

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