For me, NHL already has surpassed the NBA as the third biggest professional sport in the US. Then, once the NBA starts losing fans it will be hard to get some of them back.
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NBA talk today that a deal was imminent, then when people walked out, the word was that they still weren't close. I think if the NBA can get playing by Christmas, and get 50 games in, they'll be okay. They'll still have a lot of piissed off fans, and lose some money, but they'll stave off serious long-term damage to the league.
Actually, according to a Harris Poll from January, the NBA had already been surpassed by motor sports (collective), and was a mere 1% point ahead of the NHL. This all before the lockout. The NBA also has dropped in half since 1998, while the NHL has slowly grown.
Interesting stat list, shows just how popular the NFL is in the USA, with baseball a comfortable second followed by NCAA football.
Actually, according to a Harris Poll from January, the NBA had already been surpassed by motor sports (collective), and was a mere 1% point ahead of the NHL. This all before the lockout. The NBA also has dropped in half since 1998, while the NHL has slowly grown.
Interesting stat list, shows just how popular the NFL is in the USA, with baseball a comfortable second followed by NCAA football.
Interesting info there. There was a vote on ESPN today about the NBA and owners agreement. You may have seen it. 3 of the 4 choices were:
1- they are close to an agreement
2- they are far from an agreement
3- they are both far close and far from an agreement
4- (and I forgot the 4th choice)
I picked #3, close to what you just said. I was in the minority while most of the nation's voters picked #2.
I was wondering if NASCAR and all were ahead of the NBA and am not surprised there.
If the NBA got going by Xmas that would be a perfect. Maybe with any luck they will make every season thereafter 50 games long, but start in November to spread the games out to minimize fatigue and increase player intensity. But that would be dreaming.
1- they are close to an agreement
2- they are far from an agreement
3- they are both far close and far from an agreement
4- (and I forgot the 4th choice)
I picked #3, close to what you just said. I was in the minority while most of the nation's voters picked #2.
I was wondering if NASCAR and all were ahead of the NBA and am not surprised there.
If the NBA got going by Xmas that would be a perfect. Maybe with any luck they will make every season thereafter 50 games long, but start in November to spread the games out to minimize fatigue and increase player intensity. But that would be dreaming.
If the players agree by Wednesday to the owners proposal issued last night, reportedly they would:
• Start playing by December 10 after a short training camp and signing period and few pre-season games.
• Play a 72 game season.
• Playoffs would start a week late, but be a full schedule.
At issue is that the proposal is 99% the same as what the players called a "sham" last week. So the owners are I think testing the players resolve. The players should counter with a smile, saying they agree with most of the owners proposal (even if not true) and are offering some suggestive changes they should be able to implement and go from there to get the season going. However I fear the extremes have taken hold, Stern has antagonized too many players, and it may not come off. Or some key players will demand a vote from the union, and run a high risk of a no vote, which could screw the pooch, so to speak.
• Start playing by December 10 after a short training camp and signing period and few pre-season games.
• Play a 72 game season.
• Playoffs would start a week late, but be a full schedule.
At issue is that the proposal is 99% the same as what the players called a "sham" last week. So the owners are I think testing the players resolve. The players should counter with a smile, saying they agree with most of the owners proposal (even if not true) and are offering some suggestive changes they should be able to implement and go from there to get the season going. However I fear the extremes have taken hold, Stern has antagonized too many players, and it may not come off. Or some key players will demand a vote from the union, and run a high risk of a no vote, which could screw the pooch, so to speak.
Reports today are saying the current offer is not much different from the previous offering by the league that the players rejected already. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7217801/nba-lockout-nba-players-union-conclude-thursday-deal
The biggest sticking point appears to be the cap issue. The owners want a restricted cap which would likely result in a spreading of the player talent to other teams, thus creating more parity between teams across the league. It helps smaller market teams compete with big market teams for talent. From the above report:
To make things worse, the video report below says the players are unlikely to accept the deal. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7220959/nba-lockout-players-unlikely-accept-owners-proposal-sources-say It goes on to say that not only is this season in jeopardy, but a portion of the next season (2012) could also be in jeopardy.
The biggest sticking point appears to be the cap issue. The owners want a restricted cap which would likely result in a spreading of the player talent to other teams, thus creating more parity between teams across the league. It helps smaller market teams compete with big market teams for talent. From the above report:
The players have a problem with that because it leaves them with less free agent options, and thus less lucrative contracts.
To make things worse, the video report below says the players are unlikely to accept the deal. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7220959/nba-lockout-players-unlikely-accept-owners-proposal-sources-say It goes on to say that not only is this season in jeopardy, but a portion of the next season (2012) could also be in jeopardy.
Is the final nail in the coffin of the 2011-2012 NBA season? It looks so. NBA players have unanimously rejected the latest offer from the league and have begun the process to disband the union.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-players-reject-leagues-labor-deal-union-to-disband-111411
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-players-reject-leagues-labor-deal-union-to-disband-111411
Yep, decertification has begun. This alone will take time, followed by lawsuits and court injunctions taking longer. Even if that gets resolved, or the players rescind it for some strange reason, the deal they will now face from the owners will be worse than what they wanted before.
If the owners are in near uniform solidarity, and willing to wait it out, the next question is what about the 2012-2013 season?
EDIT: Stern just announced that the league is filing a lawsuit with with the labor relations board arguing the players did not negotiate in good faith. Stern may not say it, but with both sides now suing each other, the season is gone.
If the owners are in near uniform solidarity, and willing to wait it out, the next question is what about the 2012-2013 season?
EDIT: Stern just announced that the league is filing a lawsuit with with the labor relations board arguing the players did not negotiate in good faith. Stern may not say it, but with both sides now suing each other, the season is gone.
on3m@n@rmy said:
If Stern stops the salaries, then as some commentators note, it looks like it will be total NBA free agency unless and until a new CBA is done.
The players are impressively bold! Stupid, but bold. This really isn't about money for them. They are going to lose money now, whether or not they get the deal they want.
Now's the time for a new league! That would make the owners freak. Funny thing is that the players have the capital necessary to found such a league. Nice pipe dream, anyway.
MarkvW said:
That's the first thing that came to my mind. Some players definitely have the money to do it. Interesting times!
If the players stay out forever, they will win. It would be crazy-stupid for them to do so (given their limited-time earning capacity), but once the owners are convinced that the players are crazy-stupid, then the owners will have to give in.
Maybe these players really are fighting for the legacy left by Curt Flood and The Big O. Just maybe. That would be a beautiful (and somewhat unselfish) thing.
The owners can't hire replacement players (or scabs) unless the owners implement no free agency, no salary cap, no luxury tax, etc. All those things are screamingly antitrust violations. The only way the owners get around those antitrust violations is if they do it with a collectively bargained labor agreement. Without that agreement, the owners are majorly intercoursed. The owners NEED a collective bargaining agreement to effectively manage their tight little monopoly.
If the owners realize the players are balls to the wall crazy-stupid, then the owners will cave. They have to. They NEED a union to bargain with in order to get the NBA that they want.
I still think that the players will turn out to to be cowardly wusses, but now my opinion has been shaken. If the players are solid. If the players are prepared to stay out forever, then the owners will cave.
I'd love to see a little brutality thrust right back at Michael Jordan and Clay Bennett! This is getting really cool.
This show is way better than an NBA season! (if you'll forgive me for saying so!)!
Stern looked shaken to me today. Very shaken. I did not expect that.
Maybe these players really are fighting for the legacy left by Curt Flood and The Big O. Just maybe. That would be a beautiful (and somewhat unselfish) thing.
The owners can't hire replacement players (or scabs) unless the owners implement no free agency, no salary cap, no luxury tax, etc. All those things are screamingly antitrust violations. The only way the owners get around those antitrust violations is if they do it with a collectively bargained labor agreement. Without that agreement, the owners are majorly intercoursed. The owners NEED a collective bargaining agreement to effectively manage their tight little monopoly.
If the owners realize the players are balls to the wall crazy-stupid, then the owners will cave. They have to. They NEED a union to bargain with in order to get the NBA that they want.
I still think that the players will turn out to to be cowardly wusses, but now my opinion has been shaken. If the players are solid. If the players are prepared to stay out forever, then the owners will cave.
I'd love to see a little brutality thrust right back at Michael Jordan and Clay Bennett! This is getting really cool.
This show is way better than an NBA season! (if you'll forgive me for saying so!)!
Stern looked shaken to me today. Very shaken. I did not expect that.
Wow! The league filing a suit on grounds the players did not negotiate in good faith. The players could make the same claim. Lawsuits will do nothing more than drive the players and owners further apart.
If the players started a new league, who would you want to fill the role of Stern? MJ (Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson), just to toss a few names out there, or other?
If the players started a new league, who would you want to fill the role of Stern? MJ (Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson), just to toss a few names out there, or other?
Bring back the ABA!MarkvW said:
If the players can somehow organize, they could actually do that. They could start a league of some 16 teams or so playing a 40 game season starting early next year and finishing in July. And these teams wouldn't have to be embolden to cities, instead touring and playing wherever they can find arenas that would accept them, and most importantly, a television contract.
I actually think the fans, once they adapted, would pay to see it.
No possibly way it would be Jordan. He's part owner of the Charlotte Bobcats, and a lot of players are angry with him. Magic on the other hand, I could see him stepping far enough away from the Lakers to be the commissioner of the new ABA.on3m@n@rmy said:
I seriously think the players should attempt this. They should at least say they are going to do it. That would really freak the owners out, and it would generate a lot of excitement and media coverage.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Hmmmmm.....NBA has dropped in half since '98. Obviously that was the time of the last lockout, though the real reason for the drop in popularity at/from that time is that MJ made his second retirement.
My interest has dropped dramatically too, but being a bigger Pippen fan, it reached maximum interest in 2000, and then has been fairly limited since 2003
Whilst love of cycling has gone up and up
Whilst still a massive MJ fan, I couldn't see him as a Commissioner. While you do have to be tough in that role, I also think that you have to be able to work with others and to be at least somewhat likeable. Jordan isn't much of a likeable person whereas Magic would be much better suited to such a role, as I believe that he comes across as a much better people person.
Yes. I would agree Magic would be a much better diplomat. Plus at this point, a real basketball person in the comishes position would probably go a long way toward healing player/league working relationships. At least from the players perspective.
Word is there's a verbal agreement. A little better than the owners' last offer, but similar to it, the only difference being percentage points higher than the previous offer, more likely about 50-51% for the players (they got 57% last time), but that does translate into millions of dollars over the next decade for the players.
• 66 game season - No problem here.
• Starts on December 25 - Most fans start watching then anyway.
• Playoffs move a week back - This works okay too.
• Only one week of free agency signing - Should be chaotic, but work.
The goal is to create more parity, but I think that's going to take some time to work at all. I also think the league has got to do a better job of promoting itself, and working on it's image. And it may take Stern leaving and being replaced with someone young and assertive (like Goddell in the NFL) to make that happen, and even that will take time.
• 66 game season - No problem here.
• Starts on December 25 - Most fans start watching then anyway.
• Playoffs move a week back - This works okay too.
• Only one week of free agency signing - Should be chaotic, but work.
The goal is to create more parity, but I think that's going to take some time to work at all. I also think the league has got to do a better job of promoting itself, and working on it's image. And it may take Stern leaving and being replaced with someone young and assertive (like Goddell in the NFL) to make that happen, and even that will take time.
Here's the latest:
• 66 games
• Schedule runs Dec. 25 - Apr. 26
• Each Team: 2 extra games per month
• 48 conference games, 18 out of conference
Here's a good link, showing the new CBA.
Looks like this near and next will be similar free agency as what was last year. This should help the players, and status quo teams with cash (Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Bulls, etc.) for a couple seasons.
One of the biggest things is the "Amnesty" clause, allowing one team to cut a player, pay him, and shed his contract. For a team like Portland, they have a chance to cut Brandon Roy and his shot knees of his fat contract.
• 66 games
• Schedule runs Dec. 25 - Apr. 26
• Each Team: 2 extra games per month
• 48 conference games, 18 out of conference
Here's a good link, showing the new CBA.
Looks like this near and next will be similar free agency as what was last year. This should help the players, and status quo teams with cash (Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Bulls, etc.) for a couple seasons.
One of the biggest things is the "Amnesty" clause, allowing one team to cut a player, pay him, and shed his contract. For a team like Portland, they have a chance to cut Brandon Roy and his shot knees of his fat contract.
Can the NBA cease being a joke? I thank you David Stern for helping to relocate the NBA's Seattle Sonics to OKC so we old Seattle fans don't really have to be concerned about how you are affecting the league, other to sit back, watch, and enjoy the mess you've helped create.
Yay! Stern allows CP3 to become a Clipper. I think this is good for the Clippers, who now have a legit point to team with Blake Griffin. I wonder how many alley oops Paul will serve up Griffin.
And says Stern (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Los-Angeles-Clippers-Chris-Paul-trade-New-Orleans-Hornets-Eric-Gordon-Chris-Kaman-Al-Farouq-Aminu-121411):
And says Stern (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Los-Angeles-Clippers-Chris-Paul-trade-New-Orleans-Hornets-Eric-Gordon-Chris-Kaman-Al-Farouq-Aminu-121411):
He should just let the Hornets decide what is best for the Hornets. But at least it is done now.
When and if Paul to Griffin becomes part of the marketing/advertising campaign for the NBA the league will move one step closer to "reality TV" and professional wrestling.
Clipped
Any LA Clippers fans out there?
I find the NBA rather drab, but their bigoted owner has certainly spiced things up.
Any LA Clippers fans out there?
I find the NBA rather drab, but their bigoted owner has certainly spiced things up.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Don't know all the facts yet (him on the recordings), but... wow. What an extremely conflicted individual.
In addition to everything else, the NAACP was scheduled to honor him with a lifetime achievement award.
I don't see how he stays in control of the team.
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