netapp and the hoke they were this giro

[Susan Westemeyer]

This is a thread about NetApp, remember? Stay on topic, and open another thread for other topics.

Susan

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I would say that it is, in fact, the same as other sports in this respect. When football fans saw players like John O'Shea (he's moved on now, but the point remains) happy to sit on the bench all year at United for a handful of games, they didn't say "Gosh, O'Shea's so ambitious", by on large, they found it a little pathetic.

Sunderland and United operate in the 1st division. Ambitious footballers with talent will always want to try and stay in the first divison.

There are 18 WT teams. Plenty of opportunities for new top talent to get a solid race program. Sure if everybody wants to join Team Sky, there will likely be many sitting on the bench.

Navarro got opportunities, but sadly wasn't able to take them (so far).

Pozzato is a special case which I wouldn't build a model around.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Last year, Betancur was a very promising youngster with some very interesting results and a big win. This year, he's confirmed he's at or near the top level of the Italian peloton. Without that step forward, his place in the hierarchy of whatever team he joins next year would not have been the same. He's obviously taking full advantage of this year to grow as a rider and to get used to being the team leader. What's wrong with that? Hell, even if he had known he wouldn't ride the Giro, it was probably a good choice.

Developing as a rider is about much more than thinking of the short term. Otherwise, every single junior talent would immediately join a WT team instead of going for a u23 conti team first.

exactly and many seme to forget the guy is just 22 years old, only a few months older than sagan. he has such a long future ahead of him

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sunderland and United operate in the 1st division. Ambitious footballers with talent will always want to try and stay in the first divison.

There are 18 WT teams. Plenty of opportunities for new top talent to get a solid race program. Sure if everybody wants to join Team Sky, there will likely be many sitting on the bench.

Navarro got opportunities, but sadly wasn't able to take them (so far).

Pozzato is a special case which I wouldn't build a model around.

thank you for prooving you understand nothing about cycling. last time I comment on you

 

[The Hitch]

Garzelli? Who cares.

I do. And what????

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I do. And what????

and so does italy

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I do. And what????

career path model?

 

[Escarabajo]

Agree with hrotha and caruut.

 

[Caruut]

Sunderland and United operate in the 1st division. Ambitious footballers with talent will always want to try and stay in the first divison.

There are 18 WT teams. Plenty of opportunities for new top talent to get a solid race program. Sure if everybody wants to join Team Sky, there will likely be many sitting on the bench.

Navarro got opportunities, but sadly wasn't able to take them (so far).

Pozzato is a special case which I wouldn't build a model around.

Haha, fine. If you think about it in another way, Farnese Vini are probably one of the top 25 teams in the world, whereas Sunderland are much lower than that, but I can come up with other examples if you'd like.

Craig Bellamy. After moving to Man City at the start of the money days, he quickly found himself surrounded by players far better than him, and couldn't get a game. He dropped down a league to do a stint on loan at Cardiff, came back to the top flight and won a move to Liverpool.

The is more to a "solid race program" than simply having the team you are on registered in the event. To be able the pick and choose the events you wish to target and have the full support of the team (in terms of training, support riders, etc.) is better than just being left with what no-one else really wanted.

Sure, if a puncheur leader on a Conti team made the step up he might ride all three Ardennes classics instead of one or two. On the other hand, he's probably going to be told "Right, you're supporting the outright leader in Amstel, you're allowed to have a go in Fleche, but we'll call on you if needed and you're support again in LBL", and then be handed the much-coveted absolute leadership for Québec and Montréal. On the Conti team, he doesn't have to fly to Canada, and the DS says to him "Look son, we've only got an invite to FW this year, so everyone's riding for you. Do your best."

 

[Dazed and Confused]

[quote

Craig Bellamy. After moving to Man City at the start of the money days, he quickly found himself surrounded by players far better than him, and couldn't get a game. He dropped down a league to do a stint on loan at Cardiff, came back to the top flight and won a move to Liverpool.

[/QUOTE]

Do you really believe Bellamy dropped down voluntarily? I don't.

Don't think we can agree on whats the best model for a new top talent to move forward.

 

[Caruut]

[quote

Craig Bellamy. After moving to Man City at the start of the money days, he quickly found himself surrounded by players far better than him, and couldn't get a game. He dropped down a league to do a stint on loan at Cardiff, came back to the top flight and won a move to Liverpool.

Do you really believe Bellamy dropped down voluntarily? I don't.

Don't think we can agree on whats the best model for a new top talent to move forward.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "dropped down voluntarily"? City still had to pay his wages for the remainder of his contract, they can't force him to go out on loan. Maybe he would have rather gone on loan to a Premier League team, but at some point the parallels with football stop. At ProConti level, you still get the chance to compete against the very best riders in the world (if you are leader on a big PC team), in football you do not. That is a huge fundamental difference.

Beginning to find it a bit tiresome that every point I make is either "a special case" or just roundly ignored.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Do you really believe Bellamy dropped down voluntarily? I don't.

Don't think we can agree on whats the best model for a new top talent to move forward.

What do you mean "dropped down voluntarily"? City still had to pay his wages for the remainder of his contract, they can't force him to go out on loan. Maybe he would have rather gone on loan to a Premier League team, but at some point the parallels with football stop. At ProConti level, you still get the chance to compete against the very best riders in the world (if you are leader on a big PC team), in football you do not. That is a huge fundamental difference.

Beginning to find it a bit tiresome that every point I make is either "a special case" or just roundly ignored.[/QUOTE]

City wanted to force Bellamy to exit his contract and they opposed any loan to a PL club. So Bellamy at an advanced age can sit on the bench or drop down a level and play for a 2nd division club. I can assure you Bellamy would have preferred to play in the PL on loan.

Again, the model way for a new top talent to move forward with the career is on a team in the first division (talking cycling now). If the rider can't handle the pressure, clashes with the management, can't deliver, gets unfairly treated etc, that particular rider may find another way forward to become a professional cyclist, i.e. dropping down a level. This is my view and I understand you have a different view which I fully accept.

 

[Froome19]

No opportunities on WT teams?
There are 18 teams in the first division and many of those would be able to give Betancur a much better race program than A&S. Its like any other sport really, the best moves up. Riders with limited ambition or skills stays down.

We are talking about Liquigas here...

Batancur would have gotten a much better race program at Liquigas and probably better facilities than what hes currently getting at A&S. If he has any ambitions he needs to upgrade asap assuming a WT team wants him. Are there any ambitions at A&S. Do they have a plan to move to 1st divison. If not, Betancur is better off on a 1st divison team. Its the same in any other sport. Its really very simple.

Garzelli? Who cares.

Betancur will remain small fry if he stays on a small team. Simple. Even you will eventually understand it.

Thats why he is moving at the end of the season, yet this season though was and will be beneficial to him as explained previously.

 

[superconfex]

If the idea of the invite was exposure to the german market, they utterly failed, the german press (national, non sports press) completely ignored the GIRO.

Getting 2 second places and being in a number of breakaways is not sufficient to justify these kind of invitations for a 3rd tier team.

I think the idea to invite them was for their coin.
Their brand name was at every finishing line with the time.
Even if the team wasn't.