netapp and the hoke they were this giro

[Fetisoff]

I think the inter giro should be brought back. This would offer the smaller teams like Netapp a chance to battle for a jersey, too.

Not exactly like NetApp is a "small" team. They have plenty of financing available to say the least.

Anyway, I think there should be some sort of a structure to which teams get an invitation as wildcards. Something like 2 local teams, 1 UCI europe tour leader, 1 team from North/South America or Asia that has the best results. Of course, teams could decline as well.

So for TDF it would actually be pretty close. Saur is first (invited as local team), Europcar is 4th (invited as local), Argos is 2nd, so they get an Europe tour invitation, + 1 more for whoever.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Barta attacked at the bottom of the first climb and was caught on the descent by Amador, dropped and got back on the last climb.


Rabottini and Amador both won because the contenders didn't race till 2 km to go. Rubiano & De Gendt were "deserving" stage winners.

edit: reading your previous posts in other threads, seems you didn't even watch the Giro

Or maybe you misinterpreted my posts like you did here? No, can't be.


I was talking about the riders in the breakaway only. Hence, Amador owned them all. Obviously.

"Barta attacked at the bottom of the first climb and was caught on the descent by Amador, dropped and got back on the last climb."

Tell me something I don't know. Do I have to spell it out. Judging from the parts that were televised, Barta most likely did nothing but sit wheels after he got back on IN THE END and UNTIL De Marchi attacked at about 1.5 kilometers to go. That should've been obvious had you read my previous posts in this thread.

Please tell me you're trolling.

 

[killswitch]

Please tell me you're trolling.

I was going to ask the same you and your fellow SA fans, who whine all the time. OBVIOUSLY you don't care about A&S, only for Betankur, who has a lot of potential and will get a lot of opportunities in the future. A&S should have been there if only for Garzelli and di Luca. As I wrote before the WT system is the problem. Saxo, Rabo, RaNT and FDJ were even worse.
Netapp were invited because of politics and money and even without Konig did better than those teams (and showed respect for the race).

[troll mode]

I was talking about the riders in the breakaway only. Hence, Amador owned them all. Obviously.

Of course. Obviously. Completely forgot that Amador was born at altitude in the Costa Rican Andes and his family has lived for generations at altitude, NOT. Also being South American = superior to those european dopers (valve-pithy anyone)?
[/troll mode]

 

[Escarabajo]

A & S would have done better things with the wild card spot than Net App did i think. Kinda wanted to see Betancur in the Giro and how he would have performed there.

+1. This exactly.

 

[roundabout]

Not exactly like NetApp is a "small" team. They have plenty of financing available to say the least.

No, just because they are sponsored by a Fortune 500 company doesn't immediately mean that it's a big sponsorship.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I was going to ask the same you and your fellow SA fans, who whine all the time. OBVIOUSLY you don't care about A&S, only for Betankur, who has a lot of potential and will get a lot of opportunities in the future. A&S should have been there if only for Garzelli and di Luca. As I wrote before the WT system is the problem. Saxo, Rabo, RaNT and FDJ were even worse.
Netapp were invited because of politics and money and even without Konig did better than those teams (and showed respect for the race).

[troll mode]

Of course. Obviously. Completely forgot that Amador was born at altitude in the Costa Rican Andes and his family has lived for generations at altitude, NOT. Also being South American = superior to those european dopers (valve-pithy anyone)?
[/troll mode]

Damn, I was missing in action for a minute and a gift awaits me.


Di Luca is one of my favorite riders, actually. Hence the Di Luca avatar. Who would have guessed?

For real, I have no idea what you're going on about with your Central - and South America-only talk. If you like some SA riders you must like them exclusively, is that it?

It's just that Amador was far and away the strongest and smartest rider in the break that day, IMO. Judging by the way the race unfolded. That's it.

Every cycling fan knows that the WT system is the main problem. You don't have to tell me. Netapp's wild card has nothing to do with A&S, either. RCS could have issued 5 wild cards if they had wanted to, like I posted a gazillion times on this board already. The safety argument was a bull**** excuse. Obviously NetApp tried to honor the race, but that's the case with any wild card team.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Netapp or A&S?
Who cares? Noone of those were ever going to light up the show in this years Giro. Besides if Betancur wants to fast track his career he needs to abandon the 2nd division and more up in the world. It really is quite simple.

 

[Froome19]

Netapp or A&S?
Who cares? Noone of those were ever going to light up the show in this years Giro. Besides if Betancur wants to fast track his career he needs to abandon the 2nd division and more up in the world. It really is quite simple.

He is going to at the end of the year at Liquigas, he was originally going to do it at the begining of this season yet at the last second he decided to put the move on hold and stay with A&S in order to get more leadership opportunities.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

He is going to at the end of the year at Liquigas, he was originally going to do it at the begining of this season yet at the last second he decided to put the move on hold and stay with A&S in order to get more leadership opportunities.

Sounds like a big mistake. It can happen for all of us.

 

[Froome19]

Sounds like a big mistake. It can happen for all of us.

Why? He has had a succesful year so far and he will be hoping to peak again for the races around Lombardia where he was particularly strong last year.
He would never had had such opportunities racing in the WT and this season's results will allow him to have more leeway when he does make the step up

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Netapp or A&S?
Who cares? Noone of those were ever going to light up the show in this years Giro. Besides if Betancur wants to fast track his career he needs to abandon the 2nd division and more up in the world. It really is quite simple.

A team consisting of Hoogerland, Txurruka, Moncoutié, Vinokourov, Vandenbroucke and four clones of Jacky Durand couldn't have lit up the show in this year's Giro.

 

[greenedge]

I saw the stage, thanks. I also read the post-stage interviews. Amador was in full control the whole time

Ok i was not trying to insult your knowledge. I was just trying to bring to light a technicality in your post that i responded to, which had a loophole in it.

You are right about the Amador part as well.

 

[greenedge]

Rabottini and Amador both won because the contenders didn't race till 2 km to go. Rubiano & De Gendt were "deserving" stage winners.

edit: reading your previous posts in other threads, seems you didn't even watch the Giro

Bit harsh. Also he was stating it was a "lazy" win because it was in the breakaway ( and he was the best in there, so therefore controlled it/ won easily )- Amador would not have finished with the favourites and contended FTW at the moment but still went best out of the break.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Why? He has had a succesful year so far and he will be hoping to peak again for the races around Lombardia where he was particularly strong last year.
He would never had had such opportunities racing in the WT and this season's results will allow him to have more leeway when he does make the step up

No opportunities on WT teams?
There are 18 teams in the first division and many of those would be able to give Betancur a much better race program than A&S. Its like any other sport really, the best moves up. Riders with limited ambition or skills stays down.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Collectively, Netapp may have returned the weakest results for wildcard teams, but in terms of the peloton, they out performed half a dozen WT teams.

How they got their results is completely irrelevant to this question, as is another team's hypothetical performance.

Their selection can, in hindsight, be justified, whereas the enforced selection of Saxo, Rabo and FDJ (Casar??) cannot.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

A team consisting of Hoogerland, Txurruka, Moncoutié, Vinokourov, Vandenbroucke and four clones of Jacky Durand couldn't have lit up the show in this year's Giro.

haha, indeed.
However, my sense is that this is really about individual riders. Dunno about the motivation of the old farts, but surely if a bright new talent wants to get the best chance to move ahead the most natural way is to join a 1st division team, preferably one which offers limited overlap with other riders. Plenty of those around.

 

[will10]

No opportunities on WT teams?
There are 18 teams in the first division and many of those would be able to give Betancur a much better race program than A&S. Its like any other sport really, the best moves up. Riders with limited ambition or skills stays down.

Can you imagine if Betancur had gone to Liquigas this season? He'd have wasted half the season prepping for a Giro riding for a sub-par Basso, as opposed to continuing to make a name for himself as a leader at Acqua.

WT is not everything, not by a long shot. Look how long Garzelli has continued to be successful riding for non-WT teams, long after he left Liquigas. Look at the three years Visconti had at Farnese, leader in every race he rode, eventually re-joining a WT team as a leader, not Bettini's b1tch.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sounds like a big mistake. It can happen for all of us.

obviously you are dazed and confused because it was a very smart decision. who would've thought they wouldn't get invited for the giro

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Can you imagine if Betancur had gone to Liquigas this season? He'd have wasted half the season prepping for a Giro riding for a sub-par Basso, as opposed to continuing to make a name for himself as a leader at Acqua.

WT is not everything, not by a long shot. Look how long Garzelli has continued to be successful riding for non-WT teams, long after he left Liquigas. Look at the three years Visconti had at Farnese, leader in every race he rode, eventually re-joining a WT team as a leader, not Bettini's b1tch.

Batancur would have gotten a much better race program at Liquigas and probably better facilities than what hes currently getting at A&S. If he has any ambitions he needs to upgrade asap assuming a WT team wants him. Are there any ambitions at A&S. Do they have a plan to move to 1st divison. If not, Betancur is better off on a 1st divison team. Its the same in any other sport. Its really very simple.

Garzelli? Who cares.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

obviously you are dazed and confused because it was a very smart decision. who would've thought they wouldn't get invited for the giro

Betancur will remain small fry if he stays on a small team. Simple. Even you will eventually understand it.

 

[Nick C.]

obviously you are dazed and confused because it was a very smart decision. who would've thought they wouldn't get invited for the giro

But doesn't that imply the only race of note he would get to contest would be the Giro?

 

[will10]

Batancur would have gotten a much better race program at Liquigas and probably better facilities than what hes currently getting at A&S. If he has any ambitions he needs to upgrade asap assuming a WT team wants him. Are there any ambitions at A&S. Do they have a plan to move to 1st divison. If not, Betancur is better off on a 1st divison team. Its the same in any other sport. Its really very simple.

Garzelli? Who cares.

Beautifully done, just re-write your own points and ignore everyone else's posts. I won't waste any more time

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Betancur will remain small fry if he stays on a small team. Simple. Even you will eventually understand it.

:facepalm: he won';t stay there forever obviously

 

[hrotha]

Last year, Betancur was a very promising youngster with some very interesting results and a big win. This year, he's confirmed he's at or near the top level of the Italian peloton. Without that step forward, his place in the hierarchy of whatever team he joins next year would not have been the same. He's obviously taking full advantage of this year to grow as a rider and to get used to being the team leader. What's wrong with that? Hell, even if he had known he wouldn't ride the Giro, it was probably a good choice.

Developing as a rider is about much more than thinking of the short term. Otherwise, every single junior talent would immediately join a WT team instead of going for a u23 conti team first.

 

[Caruut]

Batancur would have gotten a much better race program at Liquigas and probably better facilities than what hes currently getting at A&S. If he has any ambitions he needs to upgrade asap assuming a WT team wants him. Are there any ambitions at A&S. Do they have a plan to move to 1st divison. If not, Betancur is better off on a 1st divison team. Its the same in any other sport. Its really very simple.

Garzelli? Who cares.

What is the point of going to all of the most prestigious races if you have no opportunity to ride for yourself? Daniel Navarro gets to ride all the most prestigious races, but no-one pretends he is anything other than someone to help Contador. If Betancur wants to be a team leader at a big team, it can hardly hurt if he can say "I clearly have experience leading a team".

It's only really very simple because you haven't thought about it. Personally, I think it's far more ambitious to gamble, and be a leader for a smaller team with the hope of getting a call from the big boys than it is to go and just earn your pay checks domestiqueing for a star. Visconti is an absolute case in point, as was highlighted earlier. Pippo Pozzato is another, at Farnese Vini again. He was unhappy at Katusha, so rather than just get a contract at OPQS, RSNT, BMC or Rabo supporting their classics stars, he spends one year on a conti team to prove to everyone that he still has it. Next year he should be able to be a team leader somewhere that wants a guy for the classics, whereas in the other scenario he's only a leader when the true leader doesn't feel like going to that race. Tom Boonen's sloppy seconds, or my own racing program? I know which I'd choose.

I would say that it is, in fact, the same as other sports in this respect. When football fans saw players like John O'Shea (he's moved on now, but the point remains) happy to sit on the bench all year at United for a handful of games, they didn't say "Gosh, O'Shea's so ambitious", by on large, they found it a little pathetic.