Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[happytramp]

Blaa Blaa Blaaa... I like Contador more so I disagree or I like Nibali so I agree or I like Froome most so I disagree......

I'm all for intelligent, open debate but not one single person on this thread is going to deviate from the above scenario, not one.

 

[Energy Starr]

Blaa Blaa Blaaa... I like Contador more so I disagree or I like Nibali so I agree or I like Froome most so I disagree......

I'm all for intelligent, open debate but not one single person on this thread is going to deviate from the above scenario, not one.

That's why I asked what the record is....so we could start from there.

 

[pigoonse]

Speculating whether or not Nibali would be at the same level as Contador/Froome and vice versa is interesting, maybe necessary, very possibly therapeutic for many, but it really is impossible to say with any certainty what woulda, coulda, shoulda been, imo.

We need a rematch to settle the question, imo.

 

[Sciocco]

Speculating whether or not Nibali would be at the same level as Contador/Froome and vice versa is interesting, maybe necessary, very possibly therapeutic for many, but it really is impossible to say with any certainty what woulda, coulda, shoulda been, imo.

We need a rematch to settle the question, imo.

The worst part is we may never get a rematch. Differing goals, suspensions, form, accidents & more could prevent it from ever happening.

Or you know, all three are left behind by Quintana in the mountains anyway.

 

[TANK91]

when they have all raced togeheter this year.
Last year he spanked their little bottoms big time in TA.
Not his fault that he can't stay in top shape from march to July like them.
Comparisons from warm up races are stupid anyways. Nibalis form now vs Dauphine has improved quite clearly wouldn't you agree?

lol more like spanked them on 1 stage, Froome made him look a lil bi**h for most of race. This is a 3 week GT no lucky wet hill stage to capatalise. All Froome had to do was finish with Contador on cobbles and he makes 3 mins + back. We have seen it with are own eyes. The podium proves the competetion is terrible. Majka who targeted Giro could have been on podium here that is kinda funny, no?

 

[Afrank]

lol more like spanked them on 1 stage, Froome made him look a lil bi**h for most of race. This is a 3 week GT no lucky wet hill stage to capatalise. All Froome had to do was finish with Contador on cobbles and he makes 3 mins + back. We have seen it with are own eyes. The podium proves the competetion is terrible. Majka who targeted Giro could have been on podium here that is kinda funny, no?

Beating Nibali by 11 seconds on stage 4, 9 seconds on stage 5, and 11 on stage 7 is making him look like a bi**h? Those are some pretty small gaps, only 31 seconds in total, and Nibali took 50 out of him on stage 6. If anything, Nibali on Sant'Elpidio was the one that made Froome look like a bi**h.

Re bolded: No he couldn't have.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never considered these riders as pre-race favorites. The only three I considered as favorites were CF, AC, and VN. The guys you've listed I considered (and they considered themselves as such) as top 10 contenders. That was it. And on top of that I only considered them as top 10 contenders based on them having a trouble free 3 weeks. Several of the ones you named have been involved in crashes, ect.

This is a "weak" field if you think about those who are not here. This is not Nibali's fault, this doesn't take away from his win, but it is a fact nonetheless. Of course congratulations to Nibali for his win, staying upright, dealing with the pressures of the yellow jersey for so long, and winning his 1st Tour. Winning the Tour is not only about brute strength. He had the perfect combo of strength, skill, mental strength, and luck.

i get what you are saying. but every one of the riders i have mentioned has been tipped as a contender for a top 5 on these very boards in a race with nibs, ac and froome. i don't think anyone picked any of them to win.

the point is that you can't pick a bunch of guys for a top 5 placing and then turn around and discredit the field to discount nibali's win because nobody rated the 3 frenchmen who are ahead of all those guys.

if the field is weak, then to convince everyone you are really strong you have to win by a lot. 7+ seems like a lot to me.

 

[maxmartin]

The worst part is we may never get a rematch. Differing goals, suspensions, form, accidents & more could prevent it from ever happening.

Or you know, all three are left behind by Quintana in the mountains anyway.

Who is suspended? RK from Saxo?

 

[Jspear]

i get what you are saying. but every one of the riders i have mentioned has been tipped as a contender for a top 5 on these very boards in a race with nibs, ac and froome. i don't think anyone picked any of them to win.

the point is that you can't pick a bunch of guys for a top 5 placing and then turn around and discredit the field to discount nibali's win because nobody rated the 3 frenchmen who are ahead of all those guys.

if the field is weak, then to convince everyone you are really strong you have to win by a lot. 7+ seems like a lot to me.

I also understand what you are saying. Again my personal opinion: I tipped AC, Froome, Nibali, Valverde, and Talansky for top 5. 3 of those guys are out. Naturally there are riders who are going to fill the void. Again this doesn't discredit VN's win at all.

 

[Sciocco]

Who is suspended? RK from Saxo?

Nah, I'm just saying you never know who (of Nibali/Contador/Froome/Quintana) will or when someone will get popped for clinic stuff, didn't want to elaborate since this is PRR. Of my previous post, differing goals and form are the larger issues most likely. I say all four ignore the Tour and do the Giro-Vuelta combo together. It'll never happen...

 

[Afrank]

Nah, I'm just saying you never know who (of Nibali/Contador/Froome/Quintana) will or when someone will get popped for clinic stuff, didn't want to elaborate since this is PRR. Of my previous post, differing goals and form are the larger issues most likely. I say all four ignore the Tour and do the Giro-Vuelta combo together. It'll never happen...

Or even better, the top 4 do Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple.

 

[maxmartin]

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

 

[Sciocco]

Or even better, the top 4 do Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple.

By the time of the Vuelta they'd be climbing mountains at Kittel speed.

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

I voted no, and would still vote no. Someone mentioned before that two discussions in this thread:
1. Is nibali at contador/froome level?
2. Is nibali a worthy tour winner?

My opinion is No(1) and Yes(2). I base this on the top5, I think if Froome/Contador were still in, all three could be 10-15 minutes ahead of the current 2 through 5.

The TdF is definitely his though, he earned it by beating who he had to beat and surviving the route (so far).

 

[Publicus]

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

I don't think they would at all. Nothing Nibali has shown in his domination of the current field suggests he bridged and reversed the performance gap that existed between him, Froome and Contador. There was so much race left to race when they left that it really is impossible to say how he or they would have faired if all had stayed upright and healthy for the full 3 weeks.

 

[pigoonse]

Is Nibali at the same level as Contador/Froome.

My guess is that Froome was fading in form - thus, he had the bad luck nervous crashes. So Nibali would have been ahead of Froome. Contador/Nibali would have been a proper battle.

I agree the time spread would have been more between group 1) Nibali/Contador and group 2) Froome (declining form), Pinot, Peraud, Valverde, ect. My speculation only. But really, really need and want more - as in Contador, Nibali, Froome fighting it out

The young climbers will be ready to "put the cats amongst the pigeons," as Phil and/or Paul would say.

 

[maxmartin]

I don't think they would at all. Nothing Nibali has shown in his domination of the current field suggests he bridged and reversed the performance gap that existed between him, Froome and Contador. There was so much race left to race when they left that it really is impossible to say how he or they would have faired if all had stayed upright and healthy for the full 3 weeks.

Let facts speak the truth. I will open the poll after the Tour is finished. Then we can compare the result.

 

[Pippo_San]

The best GT rider of 2013 is still the best GT rider of 2014.
And yes his name is Vincenzo.
DEAL WITH IT.

 

[Publicus]

Let facts speak the truth. I will open the poll after the Tour is finished. Then we can compare the result.

Ok. Let the record reflect we are at basically 60-40 that he isn't on their level. Once you run your post-Tour poll, I'll put up another after the Vuelta.

 

[Savant12]

I think Nibali is sorely disappointed that Contador and Froome crashed out as he seems to have the condition to match them in the climbs but then again it's hard to compare his form as he is racing against lesser competition (+7mins time gaps speak to this) and appears to be climbing without digging too deep.

Contador and Froome would have made the MTF stages very hard so we don't know how good Nibali really is right now.

 

[giamakr1]

I think his times up the climbs would be indicative of his chances against Froome and Contador. I,unfortunately don't have the time to do the homework.

 

[SafeBet]

I say all four ignore the Tour and do the Giro-Vuelta combo together.

Yes please!

 

[phanatic]

Such a shame we couldn't find out for certain. I voted no, but I'm changing that to a subversive no: if not them (and Quintana), then who?

 

[Dutchsmurf]

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

Based on what? I assumed Nibali would easily beat Valverde with 5+ minutes before the Tour even started and he is indeed doing that. Nothing Nibali has done gives me a reason to change my opinion. I knew the Tour was over the moment Contador had to stop. All Nibali has done since then is proving I was right. If anything I'm more convinced he isn't at the same level as Contador now than before.

Take yesterday as example. A nice 10km attack, but in the end he only beat the rest by 1 minute. He might have been able to go faster of course, but the time gap wasn't as impressive as his solo was. Which in my opinion is typical Nibali. He attacks often too early and his gaps are hardly ever impressive.

 

[whittashau]

Based on the fact that about half the forum didn't think Nibali would podium before the Tour started. Many had Valverde, Talansky, or even VDB in front of him

 

[Eshnar]

Based on the fact that about half the forum didn't think Nibali would podium before the Tour started. Many had Valverde, Talansky, or even VDB in front of him

I had Valverde in front of him, but only because I was expecting Nibali to attack CF and AC from far out trying to win the whole thing and ending up losing the podium...