Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[SafeBet]

Based on the fact that about half the forum didn't think Nibali would podium before the Tour started. Many had Valverde, Talansky, or even VDB in front of him

I also had Valverde over him.
Nibali's lack of form before the Tour was of great concern. It was probably his worst spring since 2008.

 

[Netserk]

The best GT rider of 2013 is still the best GT rider of 2014.
And yes his name is Vincenzo.
DEAL WITH IT.

If Nibali and not Froome was the best last year, surely Quintana will be the best this year (at the end of the year).

 

[number0]

Nibali now is over the Contardor and Froome level..
in 37 minutes and 20 seconds of ascent, 1700 vam..

 

[Carols]

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

That is why I haven't voted yet. I'm waiting until after the TT!

 

[Escarabajo]

My answer is don't know. Hard to tell.

 

[cineteq]

After this year's Tour, the question is Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?

 

[rhubroma]

After this year's Tour, the question is Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?

No, because Nibali was the one who had to proove he's at their level based on previous results.

Unfortunately we don't know what Contador's or Froome's level would have been at this Tour. All indications, however, were that they would have been rather sensational.

Remember Nibali's achievments need to be weighed against the strength of his competition and, at this point, the various Pinot's, Bardet's and Valverde's are hardly worthy of the other two.

The only thing certain, however, is that in any case Nibali would have been on the podium, even had his main adversaries stayed upright and healthy. But we can never know which spot on the podium.

I'll acknowledge though that with the 2:37 he gained on the cobbles against Alberto, with his actual form, he had a chance of winning anyway. I continue nevertheless to think the AC version 2014 would have dropped Nibali in the mountains at least once, but it would have still been hard to get back that amount of time.

 

[arvc40]

After this year's Tour, the question is Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?

No, the question is have you been smoking crack.

 

[cineteq]

I'll acknowledge though that with the 2:37 he gained on the cobbles against Alberto, with his actual form, he had a chance of winning anyway. I continue nevertheless to think the AC version 2014 would have dropped Nibali in the mountains at least once, but it would have still been hard to get back that amount of time.

1. Both riders were there at the start of the race.
2. On stage 5, had Froome not been injured or had crashed he would've been distanced big time anyway.
3. On stage 8, Nibali was up there witn Contador at a mountain finish.
4. Contador probably could have dropped Nibali in the Alps, and won a stage, but he had no chance whatsoever of winning this Tour

 

[Escarabajo]

1. Both riders were there at the start of the race.
2. On stage 5, had Froome not been injured or had crashed he would've been distanced big time anyway.
3. On stage 8, Nibali was up there witn Contador at a mountain finish.
4. Contador probably could have dropped Nibali in the Alps, and won a stage, but he had no chance whatsoever of winning this Tour

How do you know that?? Would have could have. We will never know! So many variables.

 

[Miburo]

How do you know that?? Would have could have. We will never know! So many variables.

You do realise that there's no point discussing cycling with this man/woman?

 

[arvc40]

1. Both riders were there at the start of the race.
2. On stage 5, had Froome not been injured or had crashed he would've been distanced big time anyway.
3. On stage 8, Nibali was up there witn Contador at a mountain finish.
4. Contador probably could have dropped Nibali in the Alps, and won a stage, but he had no chance whatsoever of winning this Tour

Yep, definateley been smoking something lol

 

[rzombie1988]

4. Contador probably could have dropped Nibali in the Alps, and won a stage, but he had no chance whatsoever of winning this Tour

Contador has never lost to Nibali in a GT. He's always finished above him and he embarrassed him at the Giro years ago.

Contador and Froome just met a month ago or so in a one week tour and Contador cracked Froome, looking easily like the strongest in the field.

So, Contador has already beaten both guys before, so you can't honestly say he didn't have a chance to win. What, you think Pinot was gonna drop him?

 

[whittashau]

I personally think Contador would have gained some time back, but he would have had to gain 45 seconds to a 1:30 in the ITT. It would have been a struggle for him to beat Nibali. Especially now we know that VN hasn't really pushed himself to the limit very often.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

Contador has never lost to Nibali in a GT. He's always finished above him and he embarrassed him at the Giro years ago.

Contador and Froome just met a month ago or so in a one week tour and Contador cracked Froome, looking easily like the strongest in the field.

So, Contador has already beaten both guys before, so you can't honestly say he didn't have a chance to win. What, you think Pinot was gonna drop him?

you can't really judge tour riders by their dauphine form. nibali proved it again in this tour. at the dauphine he was not great.

 

[cineteq]

I personally think Contador would have gained some time back, but he would have had to gain 45 seconds to a 1:30 in the ITT. It would have been a struggle for him to beat Nibali. Especially now we know that VN hasn't really pushed himself to the limit very often.

+1 Sometimes posters need to be spoonfed to understand why Contador wouldn't have been able to deduct enough time off Nibali to win the Tour. I hadn't even considered the ITT for my arguments. Thanks!

You do realise that there's no point discussing cycling with this man/woman?

With weak arguments is impossible, thanks

 

[pigoonse]

Nibali made it clear that the Dauphine was a warm-up race - so the argument that so and so was stronger in the Dauphine is meaningless, imo, having seen Nibs' improvements since the Italian Nationals going forward until now.

But I still want to see how Nibali does in the ITT. Froome was not going to be in Tour 2013 form, is my guess, after his fall in the Dauphine and what appeared to be weakened form and/or loss of confidence in the first 5 stages of this Tour. Contador is another story. Comparing Nibali this Tour to his form in the Giro 2011 is using out-dated information, imo. We don't know what would have been had Berto not crashed out and it's really too bad to miss such a potentially great battle.

 

[Escarabajo]

+1 Sometimes posters need to be spoonfed to understand why Contador wouldn't have been able to deduct enough time off Nibali to win the Tour. I hadn't even considered the ITT for my arguments. Thanks!

...

Puff! For a moment I thought your argument was flawed.

 

[Energy Starr]

this poll was set up too early. A good time to do a poll like this is when Tour is finished. I bet lot's people would second guess their earlier votes.

Nah, this tour has no bearing on the answer, obviously.

 

[Publicus]

1. Both riders were there at the start of the race.
2. On stage 5, had Froome not been injured or had crashed he would've been distanced big time anyway.
3. On stage 8, Nibali was up there witn Contador at a mountain finish.
4. Contador probably could have dropped Nibali in the Alps, and won a stage, but he had no chance whatsoever of winning this Tour

Up there and on the rivet, while Contador wasn't even at full throttle. Given how badly Contador abused him at the Dauphine just a month before, and the overall strength of Tinkoff Saxo compared to Astana in the mountains at this Tour, I think it is safe to say Nibali would have been dropped more than once. I don't know if that translates into Contador recovering all of his deficit prior to the ITT, but nothing we've seen THiS YEAR indicated that Nibali could climb with Contador.

 

[Publicus]

Nibali made it clear that the Dauphine was a warm-up race - so the argument that so and so was stronger in the Dauphine is meaningless, imo, having seen Nibs' improvements since the Italian Nationals going forward until now.

But I still want to see how Nibali does in the ITT. Froome was not going to be in Tour 2013 form, is my guess, after his fall in the Dauphine and what appeared to be weakened form and/or loss of confidence in the first 5 stages of this Tour. Contador is another story. Comparing Nibali this Tour to his form in the Giro 2011 is using out-dated information, imo. We don't know what would have been had Berto not crashed out and it's really too bad to miss such a potentially great battle.

It was a warm up race for Froome and Contador too. You folks do yourself and your credibility a disservice pretending otherwise.

I agree that the 2011 Giro is immaterial to the question at hand. Nibali has progressed since then.

 

[Publicus]

I personally think Contador would have gained some time back, but he would have had to gain 45 seconds to a 1:30 in the ITT. It would have been a struggle for him to beat Nibali. Especially now we know that VN hasn't really pushed himself to the limit very often.

It helps when there is no one in the race capable of putting him under duress.

 

[SeriousSam]

Froome would have dominated tomorrow's time trial. If Nibali beats Martin as well, he might have won the Tour.

 

[cineteq]

Froome would have dominated tomorrow's time trial. If Nibali beats Martin as well, he might have won the Tour.

Probably, but he would have been 6 min. down, and best case scenario shooting for a podium spot.

Given how badly Contador abused him at the Dauphine just a month before, and the overall strength of Tinkoff Saxo compared to Astana in the mountains at this Tour

I thought by now you would known Dauphiné is just a warm-up race.

 

[SeriousSam]

6 minutes? I'm genuinely curious where this notion comes from that Froome would've been in awful shape at the Tour. Just because he wasn't at his best towards the end of a warm up race that is the Dauphine?

He would have been 3 minutes down after stage 5. He would have gapped Nibali at every MTF. By the ITT he would have been very close to Nibali, and that's only with Nibali expertly managing the damage, as opposed to foolishly trying to go with an attacking Froome.