Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[spanky wanderlust]

Nibali will never beat Froome or Contador in a GT. For him to win they will both have to crash out.

No way is he at there level.

he beat both this year.

like i said above, nibali would have destroyed froomey here.

 

[grampy]

Nibali is good, but still 30-60sec behind AC/ Froome on big climb. No way for him to win GT against them, unless he risks everything like he did this year on cobbles. The problem for him is he needed 2 or even 3 stages like that, needles to say AC/CF would then take some risks too. AC lost 2.30 to Nibali only because he knew he was so much better than Nibs in mountains, he would easily take them back.

 

[Rollthedice]

It's over, get over it.

Somebody open next year a thread "Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?"

 

[Dedelou]

It's over, get over it.

Somebody open next year a thread "Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?"

if they continue to crash or decline that could be a good thread then. Right now of course nibali will have to win a GT where they both compete. Something to look forward if he improves some the way he did this year

 

[Climbing]

if they continue to crash or decline that could be a good thread then. Right now of course nibali will have to win a GT where they both compete. Something to look forward if he improves some the way he did this year

Nibali must do absolutely nothing. He already did it.

 

[pigoonse]

if they continue to crash or decline that could be a good thread then. Right now of course nibali will have to win a GT where they both compete. Something to look forward if he improves some the way he did this year

The fact is: Contador and Froome did compete. They entered the race but both were tested on the road and both did not pass the tests in this particular edition. Nibali excelled in this edition and he was simply better. Wiggins had his edition in 2012. Froome may get another chance if the weather is good, he does not get nervous, and conditions suit him - also lots of TT km's. Froome was knocked out of the race basically on stage 4. The weather was bad. That's cycling - impossible to control for the weather - this is an outdoor sport. Cobbles are part of road cycling and riding them is a skill test just like the inclusion of many ITT km's or tough MTF's. Nibali won the contest - he made it past all the obstacles and tests right down to the last day, whereas, Froome and Contador were not able to do the same. That is cycling. Nibali is the best GT rider in 2014 - he won a beast of a TdF this year, whether one was bored out of their mind watching it, or loved it.

For the sake of GC competition, I was sad to see Contador and Froome go out, but they were tested and failed. Last year, Contador was not in the form of his life, he made it to the end of the race, but he was tested and Froome was the best. It's a road race! Maybe next year Contador will win or maybe he has an unlucky moment on a descent, hits a pothole, and crashes out again. We shall see.

 

[Dedelou]

Nibali must do absolutely nothing. He already did it.

indeed he has. He lost 8 GT, some to Contador but won three all without top competitors which is still quite remarkable. Once he wins a Gt in which top riders are competing, he will be up there with the best

 

[Escarabajo]

and Ferrari said.....

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=148

If this is the way Nibali performed or would have performed with Froome and Contador in there, I would say that Nibali had a good chance of winning the Tour even with them in there, just because of the difference with the Cobbles. Assuming that Froome would have arrived close to Contador.

 

[Rollthedice]

If this is the way Nibali performed or would have performed with Froome and Contador in there, I would say that Nibali had a good chance of winning the Tour even with them in there, just because of the difference with the Cobbles. Assuming that Froome would have arrived close to Contador.

Nibali was at Froome 2013 level this year as measured by "pseudoscientists" while taking his time on the climbs to look at the beautiful scenery. While of course Froome can pull a Tony Martin in ITT and Contador can do a Verbier we will never know who would have won but I'm fairly certain that a Peraud would have finished 10 minutes down on fourth.

 

[Climbing]

indeed he has. He lost 8 GT, some to Contador but won three all without top competitors which is still quite remarkable. Once he wins a Gt in which top riders are competing, he will be up there with the best

Interesting opinion... not sure Nibali going to care about it anyway.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

It's over, get over it.

Somebody open next year a thread "Froome/Contador at the same level as Nibali?"

Will do

 

[cineteq]

If this is the way Nibali performed or would have performed with Froome and Contador in there, I would say that Nibali had a good chance of winning the Tour even with them in there, just because of the difference with the Cobbles. Assuming that Froome would have arrived close to Contador.

+1 Nibali had a stage to spare, that he didn't need to use (the stage that Rogers won). Also, the ITT wouldn't have been a big factor in favor of Froome.

 

[Pricey_sky]

+1 Nibali had a stage to spare, that he didn't need to use (the stage that Rogers won). Also, the ITT wouldn't have been a big factor in favor of Froome.

I don't think Froome would have been that far off Panzer after what he's shown in iTT's over the last 18 months, maybe 15-30 seconds off which would have given him 1min 30ish over Nibali, not that big of an advantage as you say.

 

[whittashau]

I don't think Froome would have been that far off Panzer after what he's shown in iTT's over the last 18 months, maybe 15-30 seconds off which would have given him 1min 30ish over Nibali, not that big of an advantage as you say.

Did you even watch that TT? Nibali wasn't going all out at all. Taking the corners very carefully. He could have gone at least 30 seconds quicker.

As for Froome getting that close to Martin I'm not so sure either. Martin's words after the TT makes me think that it was a huge performance by him.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Did you even watch that TT? Nibali wasn't going all out at all. Taking the corners very carefully. He could have gone at least 30 seconds quicker.

As for Froome getting that close to Martin I'm not so sure either. Martin's words after the TT makes me think that it was a huge performance by him.

Yes it was a great performance from Martin, Froome wasn't exactly blown away by Martin on a flat TT last year (something like 12 seconds over 33k's) and was actually ahead until the last few k's. No doubt Nibali could have gone faster too and who knows how quick they could have gone had the yellow jersey been on the line, hopefully we will see next year.

 

[Taxus4a]

Froome would have been second in the ITT, an minute worse than Tony, and I think 30 second better than Nibali. I see Nibali in a same level in the mountains... but Nibali is a great descender... and the question is Froome in the pavé...Wiggings yes, but with mud is difficult to say he could have been follow Nibali, so...difficult to say... Contador to put 2 minutes on this Nibali, impossible...

We never will know, but there is no doubt for me than a short ITT dont suit Froome the same than a long one, and he won in Dauphine the prologue, so his level for ITT is not in discussion this year...He only was at his level in Dauphine before the crash and in Oman. And he was a destroyer as last year. Only quintana and Purito has showed to climb better, but they wanst there (Purito yes, but out of GC and out of his best level). This Nibali is really good, but he maybe needed to win on the cobbles or in a descent or taking advantage of the situation, face to face, the level is similar, but not better.

 

[Jspear]

Did you even watch that TT? Nibali wasn't going all out at all. Taking the corners very carefully. He could have gone at least 30 seconds quicker.

As for Froome getting that close to Martin I'm not so sure either. Martin's words after the TT makes me think that it was a huge performance by him.

Hey you are now speculating. Isn't that the thing that us AC fans can't be doing? You shouldn't either.

 

[TANK91]

Did you even watch that TT? Nibali wasn't going all out at all. Taking the corners very carefully. He could have gone at least 30 seconds quicker.

As for Froome getting that close to Martin I'm not so sure either. Martin's words after the TT makes me think that it was a huge performance by him.

Froome has superiour recovery to Martin he would been close imo, you have too admit Froome's ITT in races he goes for win are always great.

 

[whittashau]

Froome has superiour recovery to Martin he would been close imo, you have too admit Froome's ITT in races he goes for win are always great.

Does he now. The fact is that we've seen him do four GTs at his new current level. All of which happened to have basically perfect conditions. It's purely conjecture how he would have handled the changeable conditions that this Tour has had, but most riders seemed to struggle with it a lot.

 

[BlurryVII]

Will do

Why wouldn't he simply just go on the Tour without doing Giro beforehand? Because I tell you, there won't be any possible excuse, Giro or not, crash or not especially after what some people are saying this year.

And once again, a thread like this one would be irrelevant since he has never beaten them in a GT. Oh some random diehard fan will suggest he actually did in this Tour because he is a "better" bike handler which I find a very funny and insignificant argument & which he did show us when he crashed last year in the WC, or in the Tour of lombardia 2011, or even in the Giro 2010 on the Strade Bianche stage, carrying with him Agnoli and Basso
Someone else will just come out and say " He improved his bike skillz since then" Nevertheless, at the end of the day you guys will never agree that it is just a matter of bad luck just because he won the Tour and everything is good to say that he is not a cheap winner. Be aware, you might eventually choke on your own hypocrisy .

Will surely be checking out early season results as well next year.

 

[Eshnar]

when he crashed last year in the WC, or in the Tour of lombardia 2011, or even in the Giro 2010 on the Strade Bianche stage, carrying with him Agnoli and Basso

... and I don't remember anyone saying that Gilbert or Costa were lucky because Nibali crashed.
As for the Strade Bianche stage, it was Scarponi who fell in front of everybody, not Nibali.

 

[BlurryVII]

... and I don't remember anyone saying that Gilbert or Costa were lucky because Nibali crashed.
As for the Strade Bianche stage, it was Scarponi who fell in front of everybody, not Nibali.

Nope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZGcWIl4TI

First, I can't see Scarponi anywhere, and everyone just couldn't handle that turn, it looked like they all went wide.

Forgot this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9lqC2Oick
I love Nibali's bike handling

Want some more?

 

[retzko]

Just want to react on the claim that nibali is not an excellent bike handler....

If you look at the cobble stage then you can see him avoiding crashes( esp Haussler) pure on bike handling skills. Good bike handles also crash because they take more risks.

I voted yes. Not because I believe Froome cannot power away form Nibali in the mountains but because I believe if you take all skills in account then nibali makes up for this with his superior bike handling skills and descending skills. And I find the story of Nibali much more believable.

 

[Eshnar]

Nope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZGcWIl4TI

First, I can't see Scarponi anywhere, and everyone just couldn't handle that turn, it looked like they all went wide.

I can't see a ****ing thing there, for that matter. But if you go and search for the interviews you'll find Scarponi apologizing for causing the crash. I clearly remember it.

Forgot this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9lqC2Oick
I love Nibali's bike handling

Want some more?

Was Purito lucky that Nibali crashed? I still wonder what you think about it.

 

[BlurryVII]

Was Purito lucky that Nibali crashed? I still wonder what you think about it.

I don't care, Purito has better bike handling skills, ya know, he avoided crashes and all that Deserved, end of story!
Don't you agree? Do you think Nibz would have dropped purito on that final wall? Is Nibali God on these forums? Just wondering.

better descending skills.

By the way, did Nibali ever gain serious time on a descent? Nope. He actually never did anything, just failed some long ranged attacks.
The only time he was truly impressive was on the Cima grappa descent in the Giro 2010.