Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

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Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
gregrowlerson

gregrowlerson

Aug 6, 2010
6,884
6,216
23,180
Would Cadel Evans have won the '11 Tour if Andy had ridden tactically better, or if Alberto had skipped the Giro?
Would Wiggins have won the '12 Tour if Froome had been allowed to ride for himself?
Would Froome have won the '13 Tour if Contador had arrived in '11 Giro form?
Would Nibali have won the '14 Tour if...

It can go on and on. In some cases there might be a "probably" answer, but probably not a conclusive one.

And Nibali - though about to win - is in a no win situation here. If he returns to the Tour and defends his title next year, then the claim from some will be that Froome was never able to return to his past form and that Contador is now past it (he will be 32). That may well be true and it may well be that Nibali's best can never come close to that of his rivals, but it is very difficult to make a strong argument either way when there are so many if's and but's.
 
N

number0

May 16, 2013
80
0
0
Nibali is going uphill as froome 2013.Just see the VAM.in the last 3 km de LA PLANCHE, Nibali was faster than Froome 2012. It's difficoult to say if Nibali would win,Froome Would win or Contador Would win..it's sure that they are very close
 
ILovecycling

ILovecycling

Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
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the asian said:
At least he's not in bed licking his wounds and contemplating his bike handling skills.;)
Click to expand...
yeah,Im sure Nibali would avoid that pothole with one hand on handlebars at 70kph in bunch of 50 riders:eek:
rhubroma said:
Nibali won against a second rate Contador and an inept Froome at TA last year. The Italian would have been soundly defeated by AC at TA in this year's event, was beaten by Froome in Romandie as well and in all the other races like Catalonia would have been out of contention for the win. By contrast the others won, or were in real contention to do so in every event they participated in this year.

The Tour would have been no different.
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Italian who supports Contador over Nibali,how crazy is that?:D
(if im not mistaken you are from italia)
whittashau said:
I'd agree with this, but has he gone all out? My guess is that he hasn't
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Very good question,I agree with you,but dont think it would have been big difference,couple of seconds probably.
 
Forunculo

Forunculo

Jul 25, 2011
2,007
1
0
whittashau said:
I'd agree with this, but has he gone all out? My guess is that he hasn't
Click to expand...

True, but he maximize with minimum effort. He is impressing the others, winning the mental battle. Certainly features of a superb cyclist. But it reflects he has no much more in the tank.
 
S

SiAp1984

Jul 3, 2009
305
0
0
gregrowlerson said:
Would Cadel Evans have won the '11 Tour if Andy had ridden tactically better NO, or if Alberto had skipped the Giro? YES
Would Wiggins have won the '12 Tour if Froome had been allowed to ride for himself? NO
Would Froome have won the '13 Tour if Contador had arrived in '11 Giro form? YES
Would Nibali have won the '14 Tour if... NO
Click to expand...

Would AC have won in 2007 had Rasmussen been allowed to finish the race? NO.

Capitalized terms are mine. Love speculation...

I think the whole discussion is ridiculous. I used to bash AC fans in the past here who used to lament that any win in a race which AC missed/lost was worthless for his absence/"lack of form". The same standard applies here: Even if I personally think that Froome (and possibly even Contador) would have been stronger than Nibali in this race, it remains part of a race to enter a race/stay in the race. Thus, any winner of a race deserves the win and is a worthy winner (leaving aside clinic-stuff, wheelsucking etc.). So if Nibali wins this race, it will be well deserved and unstained. And I rather see him win (I lile the guy) than Contador...
 
K

krtekolo

Sep 6, 2013
2
0
0
The only place they can be compared is on the road. We will have to wait until next year, but for 2014 there will be no asterisks next to Nibali's win.

Anyway, Nibali would have caused Froome and Contador to crash trying to keep up on the final descent on Stage 16.
 
N

nowayback

Jul 19, 2014
2
0
0
How is it possible not to include in a poll , Nibali is better and I dont know ?

In sports you can judge only those who are competing, and Nibs is blowing everyone away . As he was doing to Froome and AC while they were in the TDF. AC gave his best shot and couldnt pull away from Nibs on the climb. He looked desparate and gained a few secs advantage(others say Nibs looked tired). Did Nibs miss a gear change? Doesnt matter, better then crashing, not handling his bike well. Its all part of racing.
AC's great year so far , means absolutely nothing. He was leading Dauphine after 7th stage, and Talansky crushed him on last stage and won. So what ! Not the TDF . Nibs is making everyone who beat him there look useless, Van d broek, Talansky, Bardet, Yates.
Nibs had a program to peak at the TDF, as did AC probably. It doesnt matter who does better before or after the TDF....only the TDF matters.
1 race matters and that is the TDF, Vuelta and Giro are secondary, and Froome and AC missed out. F1 you crash, you lose, no one remembers that. We only remember the winner. no asterisks nothing, asterisks are for doping in cycling, thats all.
Next year should be an interesting TDF if all competing plus the new exciting young cyclists. As for this year, if Nibs goes on to win....well he will be remembered for being the best this year.

My favorite american football team the Patriots, 16-0 playing in the SB against the Giants, a team they had beaten a few weeks before. and they lost in the SB. Giants were the champs...Patriots...2nd, that is how history is written. Best team..... Giants.

Just like many are talking about Quintana....who did he beat at the Giro? Oh that doesnt matter, Roland..almost 11 min behind already.

Anyway you can hand pick stats and such all you want, what matters is Nibs is crushing the TDF, whoulda shoulda is for losers. And if Nbs doest win,,,the same goes for him
 
ILovecycling

ILovecycling

Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
nowayback said:
How is it possible not to include in a poll , Nibali is better and I dont know ?

In sports you can judge only those who are competing, and Nibs is blowing everyone away . As he was doing to Froome and AC while they were in the TDF. AC gave his best shot and couldnt pull away from Nibs on the climb. He looked desparate and gained a few secs advantage(others say Nibs looked tired). Did Nibs miss a gear change? Doesnt matter, better then crashing, not handling his bike well. Its all part of racing.
AC's great year so far , means absolutely nothing. He was leading Dauphine after 7th stage, and Talansky crushed him on last stage and won. So what ! Not the TDF . Nibs is making everyone who beat him there look useless, Van d broek, Talansky, Bardet, Yates.
Nibs had a program to peak at the TDF, as did AC probably. It doesnt matter who does better before or after the TDF....only the TDF matters.
1 race matters and that is the TDF, Vuelta and Giro are secondary, and Froome and AC missed out. F1 you crash, you lose, no one remembers that. We only remember the winner. no asterisks nothing, asterisks are for doping in cycling, thats all.
Next year should be an interesting TDF if all competing plus the new exciting young cyclists. As for this year, if Nibs goes on to win....well he will be remembered for being the best this year.

My favorite american football team the Patriots, 16-0 playing in the SB against the Giants, a team they had beaten a few weeks before. and they lost in the SB. Giants were the champs...Patriots...2nd, that is how history is written. Best team..... Giants.

Just like many are talking about Quintana....who did he beat at the Giro? Oh that doesnt matter, Roland..almost 11 min behind already.

Anyway you can hand pick stats and such all you want, what matters is Nibs is crushing the TDF, whoulda shoulda is for losers. And if Nbs doest win,,,the same goes for him
Click to expand...
Lol good joke!:D
 
Jspear

Jspear

Feb 23, 2014
8,827
254
17,880
nowayback said:
How is it possible not to include in a poll , Nibali is better and I dont know ?

In sports you can judge only those who are competing, and Nibs is blowing everyone away . As he was doing to Froome and AC while they were in the TDF. AC gave his best shot and couldnt pull away from Nibs on the climb. He looked desparate and gained a few secs advantage(others say Nibs looked tired). Did Nibs miss a gear change? Doesnt matter, better then crashing, not handling his bike well. Its all part of racing.
AC's great year so far , means absolutely nothing. He was leading Dauphine after 7th stage, and Talansky crushed him on last stage and won. So what ! Not the TDF . Nibs is making everyone who beat him there look useless, Van d broek, Talansky, Bardet, Yates.
Nibs had a program to peak at the TDF, as did AC probably. It doesnt matter who does better before or after the TDF....only the TDF matters.
1 race matters and that is the TDF, Vuelta and Giro are secondary, and Froome and AC missed out. F1 you crash, you lose, no one remembers that. We only remember the winner. no asterisks nothing, asterisks are for doping in cycling, thats all.
Next year should be an interesting TDF if all competing plus the new exciting young cyclists. As for this year, if Nibs goes on to win....well he will be remembered for being the best this year.

My favorite american football team the Patriots, 16-0 playing in the SB against the Giants, a team they had beaten a few weeks before. and they lost in the SB. Giants were the champs...Patriots...2nd, that is how history is written. Best team..... Giants.

Just like many are talking about Quintana....who did he beat at the Giro? Oh that doesnt matter, Roland..almost 11 min behind already.

Anyway you can hand pick stats and such all you want, what matters is Nibs is crushing the TDF, whoulda shoulda is for losers. And if Nbs doest win,,,the same goes for him
Click to expand...

You actually contradict your self. Was he unable to pull away? If so, how did he get three seconds? The gap would have continued if they had continued climbing. :) That was a precursor for better things to come....a little teaser. :)
 
Miburo

Miburo

Jul 29, 2012
11,703
4
0
Nibali has never proven to be better than froome (post2011 froome of course lol) and contador so it's only common sense to not put a 'better than them' option.

And the 'idk' option, yea maybe.
 
cineteq

cineteq

May 20, 2009
8,934
7
17,495
nowayback said:
How is it possible not to include in a poll, Nibali is better and I dont know ?

Anyway you can hand pick stats and such all you want, what matters is Nibs is crushing the TDF, whoulda shoulda is for losers.
Click to expand...
+1000 It's hard for fanboys and those who were fooled by the media to accept the truth.
 
ILovecycling

ILovecycling

Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
escheator said:
Are you able to substantiate this claim or is it just a makebelieve?:)
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Of course Im.I just thought it was more or less obvious in that stage.
Ok.He wasnt able to pull away? Nonsense,stage classement tells otherwise.Was he going all out or desperate? Oh dear :eek: ,he said he even relaxed his legs before final sprint (he thought nobody was infront of him,he didnt have earbuds). Nibali wasnt able to hold his recovery pace,but of course now without proper opponents he is a monster :p
 
Jspear

Jspear

Feb 23, 2014
8,827
254
17,880
escheator said:
Are you able to substantiate this claim or is it just a makebelieve?:)
Click to expand...

AC wasn't desperate. If you go back and read or listen to the interviews from that stage, AC said he was testing his competitors....seeing where they were at. That stage wasn't even a stage where AC was suppose to really shine and take back a whole bunch of time. It wasn't even a "proper" mountain stage, and yet he was able to pick off three seconds and put a ton of pressure on Nibali. Go check out the video....Nibbes was very tired after that effort.
 
N

Netbalp

BANNED
Jun 26, 2014
85
0
0
cineteq said:
I don't know if you've seen my other posts, by I'm just an Independent Observer. A cycling fan.
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Before AC had to abandon I rated his chances higher presumably 70/30. Now I think Nibali would have won. The guys, who really think Contador was testing in Gerardmer while Nibali was giving it all, are deeply biased in AC favor.
 
E

escheator

Jul 20, 2014
88
0
0
I couldn't really vote on this poll, given these options, as I can trust only in measured data. As Nibs couldn't be measured against AC and CF in the mountains it remains unclear. It is certain that he doesn't have as nearly strong punch as them (AC's and CF's attack look like rocket launchings), but maybe on the account of higher average, smoothened, effort he could pull them back. That's why I don't think we can look too much into those 3s. In a GT, form can fluctuate on daily basis. Really, in the end, only the cumulative effort matters and you can answer these things only post-factum unless it is very evident which I don't believe is the case here.

Also, Nibs is surely at this moment on higher level than both as they are injured. So, what do we compare to? To the best ever CF and best ever AC or this year TDF editions of both (which we couldn't really judge as they quit before the real tests). Are CF and AC on the same level? I had the impression during the Dauphine, before CF's crash, that CF is on slightly higher level.

Taking into account the curious case of CF's sudden form rise since 2011, it is not impossible that Nibs has also increased the level of his form by that much. I can imagine many possible scenarios of what could've been, but speculation, although very entertaining, is prone to biases.
 
ILovecycling

ILovecycling

Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Netbalp said:
Before AC had to abandon I rated his chances higher presumably 70/30. Now I think Nibali would have won. The guys, who really think Contador was testing in Gerardmer while Nibali was giving it all, are deeply biased in AC favor.
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ohh really? so you say AC wasnt ok,and nibbles wasnt on his limit? duhh..:eek:
Look...
https://vine.co/v/M27Zd07q3zh

edit: shiit,I cant embed it
 
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