Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[Jelantik]

Contador and froome were barely able to do any climbs LOL

LOL.. froome would have been rode with.. no hand, no hand. And contador pedaled with one leg.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Thats why this forum exists.Discuss what would,could happen,its a discussion.DEAL WITH IT

Nice DEAL WITH IT

If we can't discuss what would or could have happened, then don't post any of this crap about how Nibali would have crushed Contador and Froome anyway, either.

 

[LaFlorecita]

As to give some more insight, Visconti said that Nibbles would've probably won anyway had Velasco and the Dawg been there, since he was pedalling much better.

http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/?page=news&cod=70573&tp=n

Yeah, Contador looks **** on the flat.

It doesn't mean anything when they reach the mountains. That is Contador's playground.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes, most definitely +1 to this. Like I said in a previous thread. A rider in a GT shouldn't be judged by which of his competitors crashed out, but by their individual performances in the race. And Nibali's performances thus far have been fantastic.

Maybe Contador would have won, maybe Nibali would have surprised (again ) and beaten him. No one knows and it's no use dwelling on the past.

I kind of agree with you. But in assessing a rider's individual performance, you have to look at the competition.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He might be at the level Contador.. but not Froome. And then there is Quintana

 

[sagard]

The most interesting thing we missed out with AC and CF failing, is finding out who would have worked together amongst the big three.

Contador hasn't been automatic since his return, with one bad day in the mountains he probably doesn't make enough time back.

Froome in my opinion would have been smart to work with AC to take time back on Nibali, then try to beat AC in the TT.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He might be at the level Contador.. but not Froome. And then there is Quintana

Are you crazy? Contador beats Froome any day of the week if both are in top shape

 

[IndianCyclist]

Nibali himself said before the tour that he was ready for the challenge but third place was also good for him. It is an attitude that never came from Froome or Contador, both of whom were intent on winning. After the beating that he received from both Froome & Contador in the Dauphine and his own earlier lack of form might have indicated to him that he was below Froome & Contador in the mounains & TT

 

[ILovecycling]

Nice :-D :-D DEAL WITH IT

If we can't discuss what would or could have happened, then don't post any of this crap about how Nibali would have crushed Contador and Froome anyway, either.

He might be at the level Contador.. but not Froome. And then there is Quintana

God bless you DT

edited smilies

 

[escheator]

There are many dimensions to compare riders on. I'm not sure how critical is intelligence, but how would you rank AC,CF,VN and NQ?

This is of course just the "vibe" I got out of each of them and is nothing exact (as in exact science-measured). Hence, it is consequentially a speculation but so is the rest of this thread so I think it fits

My impression, taking into account way of riding as well as interviews would be the following:
CF<AC<VN≈NQ.

CF seems modest in interviews in a kind of farmboy(not a very cool image that he tries to present to the public). His sudden rise of form since 2011 which can be only explained as if he is very,very talented but did absolutely everything wrong in the training prior to 2011, until something fell in its place in the sky and he could finally shine. This seems to be confirmed from several interviews and the excerpts from his book I had pleasure to read on the forum (which imply that he might be inclined to overtrain). His strategical thinking leaves a lot to be desired.

AC has superior practically attained cycling skills hence and great strategical thinking. His interviews are full of emotion (non-verbal) but nothing special, really, on the content side. He rides by emotion and sometimes that can lead to loses when efforts are futile, like in the last year's TDF where he could've podiumed and Kreuziger could've been higher placed which would be great success for the team.

VN has great tactical sense which gave him several victories that, judging just by simple raw power he couldn't win at that time. That enabled him to pull the most out of his raw talent, that is perceived to be somewhat smaller than ACs and CFs. His interviews are interesting (like the "mother of the imbecile") and riding style that is quite proactive in the sense of pacing, positioning and distributing/managing his efforts that gives him more sustainability. This year there was a huge pressure on him due to relatively bad pre-TDF performance but that didn't affect his patience and plan which seem to pay off.

NQ has the nerves of steel. He's young and will improve his tactics that are not yet at the level of more experienced VN and AC. He dealt graciously with the public pressure after the Stelvio stage at this year's Giro. Interviews have more content than ACs. His pacing and the distribution of efforts are also proactively managed in a similar fashion to VN.

I admit that these are quite speculative remarks and additional facts about riders can change my perception of different rider's "vibes", so if anyone disagrees, please support your views.

 

[arvc40]

Would like to poll the Managers of each Team and ask them all which rider they would have as there GC leader for TDF 2015.

Wonder if Sky and Tinkoff would like a straight swap for Nibali.

Don't think so !

 

[arvc40]

Maybe Tinkoff could give Contador the flick and offer Nibali mega money to beat Froome next year.

Sky must be wishing they could get Nibali too. They are ****ed with Froome. He can't beat Nibali.

 

[peloton]

Yes, much better bike skills than Froome, and even Contador
On climbs? Impossible to say, but doubt it on longer climbs
Reading the race? Absolutely, probably the best of the GT riders
Progress? Very believable, he, like Contador were lauded as the big talents early on, results back that up
So clinic matters aside, which all 3 have, my final answer is yes

 

[maxmartin]

Yes, much better bike skills than Froome, and even Contador
On climbs? Impossible to say, but doubt it on longer climbs
Reading the race? Absolutely, probably the best of the GT riders
Progress? Very believable, he, like Contador were lauded as the big talents early on, results back that up
So clinic matters aside, which all 3 have, my final answer is yes

Nice summary. Kudos to you.

 

[BYOP88]

Nibali would've kicked Contador and Froome's asses in this Tour.

Contador will never win another Tour de France. Hopefully Froome won't win a GT again too.

 

[maxmartin]

Nibali would've kicked Contador and Froome's asses in this Tour.

Contador will never win another Tour de France. Hopefully Froome won't win a GT again too.

That is a bold statement, but it is quite possible. He is not getting any younger and his last win of Tour is a long time ago 2009/2010(depends you are a fan or not.) I will judge Froom's chance after the Vueta, maybe SKY's new hiring Jr. Martinelli will help him a lot.

 

[BYOP88]

That is a bold statement, but it is quite possible. He is not getting any younger and his last win of Tour is a long time ago 2009/2010(depends you are a fan or not.) I will judge Froom's chance after the Vueta, maybe SKY's new hiring Jr. Martinelli will help him a lot.

Just basing it on the fact that DBertie will be 32 at next years TDF. There haven't been that many guys who've been 32(or older) and won the Tour.

EDIT: I can think of 4 guys since 1980 who've been 32 or older and won the TdF.

 

[maxmartin]

Just basing it on the fact that DB will be 32 at next years TDF. There haven't been that many guys who've been 32(or older) and won the Tour.

I agree but many people say he is a special one. But I suspect this injury could be devastating to his career. I highly doubt he can be competitive when the Vuelta starts. So for him 2014 is wasted again.

 

[cineteq]

Contador will never win another Tour de France. Hopefully Froome won't win a GT again too.

Both quite possible. Contador's aging and Froome's radioactivity is dying down.

 

[gregrowlerson]

He might be at the level Contador.. but not Froome. And then there is Quintana

This is precisely why there is no "Nibali at the same level as Quintana?" thread

 

[BlurryVII]

As usual, cycling fans being blinded by the current "weather", and the current Tdf, which is opposing Nibali to Péraud, to Bardet, to Pinot....
It's just so easy to get excited about Nibz and say such things like "impossible to to know if he would have followed Froome & Contador and bla bla bla", this is bad faith, nothing else.
You might as well say in this regard, since both are out, we won't ever know if Contador and Froome would have dropped Péraud. In fact, maybe they'd have been inferior to him. Eh, we will never know right?
How pathetic. You call me when you see Nibali respond a 35 seconds attack from Froome, or an uphill sprint attack from Contador.

I'm really looking forward to serious business now (Vuelta 14'), and to 2015.
Despite not having a great Vuelta next month if he goes for it, Contador will still be able to reach his top form for the next 3 years now that he's found the ideal training and racing schedule for him .

 

[ILovecycling]

It will be interesting to compare Nibali vs a rider who is currently riding Tour and will ride also Vuelta in form.As I think,only Valverde comes to my mind,is there anyone else?

As for Valverde it should be fair,he always is on same kind of form (maybe only slightly better/worse) at la vuelta.We can compare...

Nibali vs 3rd week Tour Valverde
NQ/CF vs 1st week Vuelta Valverde

 

[LaFlorecita]

There are many dimensions to compare riders on. I'm not sure how critical is intelligence, but how would you rank AC,CF,VN and NQ?

This is of course just the "vibe" I got out of each of them and is nothing exact (as in exact science-measured). Hence, it is consequentially a speculation but so is the rest of this thread so I think it fits

My impression, taking into account way of riding as well as interviews would be the following:
CF<AC<VN≈NQ.

CF seems modest in interviews in a kind of farmboy(not a very cool image that he tries to present to the public). His sudden rise of form since 2011 which can be only explained as if he is very,very talented but did absolutely everything wrong in the training prior to 2011, until something fell in its place in the sky and he could finally shine. This seems to be confirmed from several interviews and the excerpts from his book I had pleasure to read on the forum (which imply that he might be inclined to overtrain). His strategical thinking leaves a lot to be desired.

AC has superior practically attained cycling skills hence and great strategical thinking. His interviews are full of emotion (non-verbal) but nothing special, really, on the content side. He rides by emotion and sometimes that can lead to loses when efforts are futile, like in the last year's TDF where he could've podiumed and Kreuziger could've been higher placed which would be great success for the team.

VN has great tactical sense which gave him several victories that, judging just by simple raw power he couldn't win at that time. That enabled him to pull the most out of his raw talent, that is perceived to be somewhat smaller than ACs and CFs. His interviews are interesting (like the "mother of the imbecile") and riding style that is quite proactive in the sense of pacing, positioning and distributing/managing his efforts that gives him more sustainability. This year there was a huge pressure on him due to relatively bad pre-TDF performance but that didn't affect his patience and plan which seem to pay off.

NQ has the nerves of steel. He's young and will improve his tactics that are not yet at the level of more experienced VN and AC. He dealt graciously with the public pressure after the Stelvio stage at this year's Giro. Interviews have more content than ACs. His pacing and the distribution of efforts are also proactively managed in a similar fashion to VN.

I admit that these are quite speculative remarks and additional facts about riders can change my perception of different rider's "vibes", so if anyone disagrees, please support your views.

Yeah, riding based on emotions means AC isn't intelligent sheesh

 

[LaFlorecita]

Would like to poll the Managers of each Team and ask them all which rider they would have as there GC leader for TDF 2015.

Wonder if Sky and Tinkoff would like a straight swap for Nibali.

Don't think so !

Maybe Tinkoff could give Contador the flick and offer Nibali mega money to beat Froome next year.

Sky must be wishing they could get Nibali too. They are ****ed with Froome. He can't beat Nibali.

Good posts!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes, much better bike skills than Froome, and even Contador
On climbs? Impossible to say, but doubt it on longer climbs
Reading the race? Absolutely, probably the best of the GT riders
Progress? Very believable, he, like Contador were lauded as the big talents early on, results back that up
So clinic matters aside, which all 3 have, my final answer is yes

The question is, can Nibali beat or finish very close to Froome or Contador in a GT (or stage race for that matter)? And I say, no, 9/10 he won't be on their level, because his climbing skills aren't on par. So my answer is no.