No time bonuses in the Giro 2012 MTFs!!!

[karlboss]

I can recall races decided on time bonuses, but i can't recall them ever making for a more exciting race. Having them or not having them riders will do whatever is best to win, having them only on some stages is silly. I suppose they are just another way to tip the balance to a particular type of rider. Wether they need a helping hand or not. If you really want to throw a cat aonst the pigeons say the winner in the stage has his winning margin doubled or something. Incentive not only to cross the line first, but do it with a gap.

 

[richo36]

Calling a 30km TT monster is beyond ridicilous, sorry.

Result from last years TDF TTT which was 23km long.

1 Team Garmin - Cervelo 0:24:48
2 BMC Racing Team 0:00:04
3 Sky Procycling
4 Team Leopard-Trek
5 HTC - Highroad 0:00:05
6 Team Radioshack 0:00:10
7 Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:12
8 Saxo Bank Sungard 0:00:28
9 Pro Team Astana 0:00:32
10 Omega Pharma - Lotto 0:00:39
11 FDJ 0:00:46
12 Team Europcar 0:00:50
13 AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:53
14 Quick Step Cycling Team 0:00:56
15 Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:57
16 Saur-Sojasun 0:01:02
17 Lampre - Isd 0:01:04
18 Katusha Team
19 Movistar Team 0:01:09
20 Vacansoleil-Dcm 0:01:15
21 Cofidis Le Credit En Ligne 0:01:20
22 Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:01:22


So going off the above info, If the TTT was 30km long (assuming everyone continued at same pace), anyone in Euskaltel- euskadi would of been 1:46 behind the leader. so yeah your right, 30km ttt isn't a monster .

 

[Bavarianrider]

Result from last years TDF TTT which was 23km long.

1 Team Garmin - Cervelo 0:24:48
2 BMC Racing Team 0:00:04
3 Sky Procycling
4 Team Leopard-Trek
5 HTC - Highroad 0:00:05
6 Team Radioshack 0:00:10
7 Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:12
8 Saxo Bank Sungard 0:00:28
9 Pro Team Astana 0:00:32
10 Omega Pharma - Lotto 0:00:39
11 FDJ 0:00:46
12 Team Europcar 0:00:50
13 AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:53
14 Quick Step Cycling Team 0:00:56
15 Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:57
16 Saur-Sojasun 0:01:02
17 Lampre - Isd 0:01:04
18 Katusha Team
19 Movistar Team 0:01:09
20 Vacansoleil-Dcm 0:01:15
21 Cofidis Le Credit En Ligne 0:01:20
22 Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:01:22


So going off the above info, If the TTT was 30km long (assuming everyone continued at same pace), anyone in Euskaltel- euskadi would of been 1:46 behind the leader. so yeah your right, 30km ttt isn't a monster .

Well, every Euskatel rider would loose more time than that in a ITT. So if anything they should be the ones most thankul about the TTT

 

[richo36]

Well, every Euskatel rider would loose more time than that in a ITT. So if anything they should be the ones most thankul about the TTT

But if they lose time in a ITT which costs them the GC they simply arent good enough. so therefore going by your above logic we shouldnt be giving EE an "advantage".

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

if you suck in ttt then it's your own fault. do something about it. train ir ot get riders that are better in it. ttt is 90% trainable as the anglo teams are showing.

 

[Bavarianrider]

if you suck in ttt then it's your own fault. do something about it. train ir ot get riders that are better in it. ttt is 90% trainable as the anglo teams are showing.

Pahh, you are asking southern europeans to work on something?
We should propbably just give them a one minute time bonus!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

what bs comment is that?

 

[Bavarianrider]

what bs comment is that?

A true one.
If you know there's a TTT then train for it instead of whining about it all the time.
But maybe that's too much to ask for.

 

[BillytheKid]

I often think many detractors of the TTT have never ridden one. Probably the greatest mental tests in cycling, especially at the old 100K four-man distance. Absolute concentration. You cannot just throw it together on the day of the race.

 

[Froome19]

I just wish Froome was racing

 

[El Pistolero]

The fact Sky has bought Wiggins, Richie Porte, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Bernhard Eisel, Mark Cavendish(actually good in a TTT), Froome, etc obviously has nothing to do with it

 

[BillytheKid]

A true one.
If you know there's a TTT then train for it instead of whining about it all the time.
But maybe that's too much to ask for.

You might to stay away from the generalizations though.

It can be true the TT work is just thought the lesser discipline from place to place. Are not a lot northern Germans always looking down you folks down south? You don't strictly use the definite article (der, die, das) when speaking or am I wrong?

The same often true here. The southern dialect is often looked down upon.

Ya'wl gotta know it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

A true one.
If you know there's a TTT then train for it instead of whining about it all the time.
But maybe that's too much to ask for.

the southern teams aren't winning about ttt's at all all the current whining in cycling is done by the anglo's.

 

[Bavarianrider]

You might to stay away from the generalizations though.

It can be true the TT work is just thought the lesser discipline from place to place. Are not a lot northern Germans always looking down you folks down south? You don't strictly use the definite article (der, die, das) when speaking or am I wrong?

The same often true here. The southern dialect is often looked down upon.

Ya'wl gotta know it.

If anything we look down on them brainless Prussians

 

[El Pistolero]

North Germany > South Germany as far as economy is concerned.

 

[Bavarianrider]

North Germany > South Germany as far as economy is concerned.

 

[kanari]

North Germany > South Germany as far as economy is concerned.

Not really true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_states_by_GDP_per_capita

 

[BillytheKid]

Uh oh! Got it going now.

Dang Foreigners!

 

[Bavarianrider]

North Germany > South Germany as far as economy is concerned.

http://www.cnbcmagazine.com/story/booming-bavaria/270/1/

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

North Germany > South Germany as far as economy is concerned.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Pahh, you are asking southern europeans to work on something?
We should propbably just give them a one minute time bonus!

lol that is funny. we have good doctors so why should they work?

 

[Angliru]

A true one.
If you know there's a TTT then train for it instead of whining about it all the time.
But maybe that's too much to ask for.

Since none of the people (as far as I know) that post on this forum are on any of the team's that might be disadvantaged in a TTT....who are you talking to about training harder?? Are these teams "whining about it all the time" or is it those that don't agree with your opinion on the matter that you're directing this statement to?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A true one.
If you know there's a TTT then train for it instead of whining about it all the time.
But maybe that's too much to ask for.

It doesn't really work like that though does it?

Euskaltel don't really have any guys who are good TTers besides Samu. The only good Basque TTers in the last few years have been Castroviejo, Intxausti (both gone to Movistar) and Herrero (burnt his bridges at Euskaltel).

They spent a lot of time training for the TTT at the Circuito de Navarra in the 2010-11 offseason... but still came last in the Tour. Why? Because the teams like Sky and Garmin, who are naturally better than them at the TTT... they practised it too.

The TTT doesn't solve any problems that an ITT doesn't solve just as well without having as many obvious drawbacks as the TTT; the trade-off for much fairer, more balanced racing is that the TTT is a better visual spectacle than an ITT. The TTT is OK as an occasional change of pace, but it seems like every GT has to have one these days, which is both overkill and formulaic.

As to your spiel about southern Europeans not working and sucking at the TTT, I point to Liquigas:

2nd, 2011 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) +4"
3rd, 2011 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +22"
5th, 2011 Tirreno-Adriatico stage 1 (TTT) +22"
2nd, 2010 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) +10"
1st, 2010 Settimana Coppi e Bartali stage 1b (TTT)
4th, 2009 Tour de France stage 4 (TTT) +58"
8th, 2009 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +40"
4th, 2009 Tour de Romandie stage 4 (TTT) +24" (also note Caisse d'Epargne were 2nd in this event)
2nd, 2008 Tour de Pologne stage 1 (TTT) +3" (also note Caisse d'Epargne were 3rd one second further back)
1st, 2008 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) (note Caisse d'Epargne were 3rd here, and Euskaltel 2nd)
4th, 2008 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +9"

 

[mb2612]

It doesn't really work like that though does it?

Euskaltel don't really have any guys who are good TTers besides Samu. The only good Basque TTers in the last few years have been Castroviejo, Intxausti (both gone to Movistar) and Herrero (burnt his bridges at Euskaltel).

They spent a lot of time training for the TTT at the Circuito de Navarra in the 2010-11 offseason... but still came last in the Tour. Why? Because the teams like Sky and Garmin, who are naturally better than them at the TTT... they practised it too.

The TTT doesn't solve any problems that an ITT doesn't solve just as well without having as many obvious drawbacks as the TTT; the trade-off for much fairer, more balanced racing is that the TTT is a better visual spectacle than an ITT. The TTT is OK as an occasional change of pace, but it seems like every GT has to have one these days, which is both overkill and formulaic.

As to your spiel about southern Europeans not working and sucking at the TTT, I point to Liquigas:

2nd, 2011 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) +4"
3rd, 2011 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +22"
5th, 2011 Tirreno-Adriatico stage 1 (TTT) +22"
2nd, 2010 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) +10"
1st, 2010 Settimana Coppi e Bartali stage 1b (TTT)
4th, 2009 Tour de France stage 4 (TTT) +58"
8th, 2009 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +40"
4th, 2009 Tour de Romandie stage 4 (TTT) +24" (also note Caisse d'Epargne were 2nd in this event)
2nd, 2008 Tour de Pologne stage 1 (TTT) +3" (also note Caisse d'Epargne were 3rd one second further back)
1st, 2008 Vuelta a España stage 1 (TTT) (note Caisse d'Epargne were 3rd here, and Euskaltel 2nd)
4th, 2008 Giro d'Italia stage 1 (TTT) +9"

I like how you exclude Liquigas's best result in TTT's from your list as well.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

more like their worst