- May 29, 2011
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Nilssons mistake. Should have left Matveeva a bit more room. Oh well, this happens in sprints
- Apr 17, 2013
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- Aug 9, 2012
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Põhja Konn said:
Reality is available in the CAS judgement. Hard to change perception. But lets just say they keep changing the rules in order to keep the Norwegians down. (less, wax testers allowed, and this year a reduced world cup quota). I'm fine with it. FIS has got to do as FIS has got to do.
- Sep 1, 2012
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Monster effort by Ustjugov, but Pellegrino had just about enough in reserve for the final straight.
Falla obliterated the opposition, but after Nilsson and Matvejeva crashed out, she was always gonna win the final. Diggins got stuck behing Ingemarsdotter at end of the last climb, but Falla was clearly stronger anyway.
Falla obliterated the opposition, but after Nilsson and Matvejeva crashed out, she was always gonna win the final. Diggins got stuck behing Ingemarsdotter at end of the last climb, but Falla was clearly stronger anyway.
- Sep 1, 2012
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ToreBear said:
That is definetely true, and applies to both of us.
Parts of your post about CAS decision and specially FIS keeping Norwegians down is blatant fanboy BS. And that is a generous verdict on my part. With that I'm done with this topic.
- Sep 25, 2009
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one of the highest number of falls i had ever seen in a sprint. falla was lucky when 2 of her main rivals cancelled each other. that's sport. not that falla wasn't the main contender anyway, but that 'mutual extinction' probably made her more relaxed mentally in the final . the 3 american girls in the final and only 1 norwegian is unprecedented. those falls certainly contributed the us success, but the girls thoroughly deserved their success.
the last turn before the finish straight was imo an unnecessary feature of the course design, which was already super tough...unlike the expected frosty conditions, it was soft. it probably made the job of a lighter pelle a tad easier. he deserved it anyway. ustiougov was not smiling at all. nor did he look upset...some kind of remoteness emanated from him as if his mind was elsewhere.
was in only my impression that klaebo wasn't satisfied with his bronze ?
petter imo, despite making the final, was just ordinary. i thought krogh will podium but he probably was not recovered after his semifinal. bolshunov hadn't been given a chance to show himself due to a fall.
the last turn before the finish straight was imo an unnecessary feature of the course design, which was already super tough...unlike the expected frosty conditions, it was soft. it probably made the job of a lighter pelle a tad easier. he deserved it anyway. ustiougov was not smiling at all. nor did he look upset...some kind of remoteness emanated from him as if his mind was elsewhere.
was in only my impression that klaebo wasn't satisfied with his bronze ?
petter imo, despite making the final, was just ordinary. i thought krogh will podium but he probably was not recovered after his semifinal. bolshunov hadn't been given a chance to show himself due to a fall.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:
Ustiugov played it right, the problem was he expended too much energy in the quarterfinal and even the semifinal. All LL's came from the first semi. He had excellent skis. You could see that even with the draft, Pellegrino didn't close. The problem for Ustiugov was that he expanded too much in the early parts of the sprint. He was tripped in his quarterfinal and had to make up the ground. He's outsprinted all those guys in the final before, and his capacity is massive. I think in the final there was one mistake up the final hill, where he stumbled and almost looked like he was going to crash. And even at the top of the final climb, when he was making the turn, he didn't ski as well as he should have. Hindsight is 20/20, but he needed a couple more meters. Pellegrino is definitely super smooth and has a very stable body position and he is very nimble, which helped him in that rough snow and the punchy course with turns. Definitely surprised that the organizers didn't regroom after the qualification round. Reminded me a bit of Falun where the tracks weren't that great at some of the races. We should be happy that the famous downhill leading into the nasty 90% turn. If that was included today, there would have been more incidents.
kingjr said:
Ustiugov played it right, the problem was he expended too much energy in the quarterfinal and even the semifinal. All LL's came from the first semi. He had excellent skis. You could see that even with the draft, Pellegrino didn't close. The problem for Ustiugov was that he expanded too much in the early parts of the sprint. He was tripped in his quarterfinal and had to make up the ground. He's outsprinted all those guys in the final before, and his capacity is massive. I think in the final there was one mistake up the final hill, where he stumbled and almost looked like he was going to crash. And even at the top of the final climb, when he was making the turn, he didn't ski as well as he should have. Hindsight is 20/20, but he needed a couple more meters. Pellegrino is definitely super smooth and has a very stable body position and he is very nimble, which helped him in that rough snow and the punchy course with turns. Definitely surprised that the organizers didn't regroom after the qualification round. Reminded me a bit of Falun where the tracks weren't that great at some of the races. We should be happy that the famous downhill leading into the nasty 90% turn. If that was included today, there would have been more incidents.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Shame for Nilsson and Matveeva. Neither Caldwell and especially Randall deserved to be there. We were robbed of a potentially great final by a rather dumb and unnecessary move by Nilsson, cutting off Matveeva and trying to box her in with Falla on the other side. A fall, a stumble and/or a broken pole was always on the cards with that sort of move. Nilsson isn't usually like that. She ruined her and Matveeva's chances in the final. Randall shouldn't have been anywhere near that final and she got a medal. Her start line antics are annoying as heck. Sorry, I am disappointed with the women's race. Stina has skied so well this year, even contending in distance races and one dumb move on her almost overshadows the season she's been having. Just my opinion. The Swedes were, in general, a bit out of luck and the toughness of the course and the snow...just a roller coaster day, even for sprinting.
The next race is the skiathlon. Bjoergen didn't look great, but I think it was mostly due to tactics and slightly slower skis. Weng is good, but I expect more from her in the distance races. Oestberg is the one that's dropped her form. Harsem should be happy just being there. Kalla is really the only one that can challenge for medals in the distance races for the Swedes. Andersson is very good, but she's too young and inexperienced at this level to make her mark this year. I am interested to see how Stina responds the rest of the championship.
The next race is the skiathlon. Bjoergen didn't look great, but I think it was mostly due to tactics and slightly slower skis. Weng is good, but I expect more from her in the distance races. Oestberg is the one that's dropped her form. Harsem should be happy just being there. Kalla is really the only one that can challenge for medals in the distance races for the Swedes. Andersson is very good, but she's too young and inexperienced at this level to make her mark this year. I am interested to see how Stina responds the rest of the championship.
- Jun 30, 2014
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The softer conditions helped Pellegrino, frosty conditions would have been better for Ustiugov, even softer and warmer conditions would have been great for klaebo (he really acts a bit like a mini-Petter and seems to be a bit too confident when it comes to his strength).
- Sep 25, 2009
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Re: Re:
provided the conditions get colder, i see him podiuming in a skiathlon.
seems he was disappointed with silver...that pole smashing that i saw in a replay looks like he feels he should have done better. by my assessment he's in excellent aerobic shape. he also looks pissed and combative. if i could extrapolate his sprint, it would be that his between-heats-recovery was excellent... his long lead in the last heat tells me he is fine aerobically.kingjr said:
provided the conditions get colder, i see him podiuming in a skiathlon.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re:
I think that's why we saw such a destruction of the field by Ustiugov in the qualifying round. The conditions were hard pack, certainly much more smooth than the heats, but whatever, Ustiugov was/is good enough to win. I still think the fall in the quarterfinal cost him too much energy. He was breathing very heavily after the race and was on his knees. The good thing was that he got maximum rest by choosing quarter #1 and being in semi #1. The next two races will be interesting. Will he and his coaches decide for him to race in the skiathlon AND team sprint or will he choose one over the other to maximize his chances of medals? If he does race in the team sprint, who will they choose to partner him? Bolshunov looked strong today, but fell on the last uphill. Retivykh looked solid, but again, he stumbled and lost his chance for the semifinal. Gafarov probably not. The other options are Kriukov or even Bessmertnykh, but they'll probably rest him for the 15km Classic and relay.
Mayomaniac said:
I think that's why we saw such a destruction of the field by Ustiugov in the qualifying round. The conditions were hard pack, certainly much more smooth than the heats, but whatever, Ustiugov was/is good enough to win. I still think the fall in the quarterfinal cost him too much energy. He was breathing very heavily after the race and was on his knees. The good thing was that he got maximum rest by choosing quarter #1 and being in semi #1. The next two races will be interesting. Will he and his coaches decide for him to race in the skiathlon AND team sprint or will he choose one over the other to maximize his chances of medals? If he does race in the team sprint, who will they choose to partner him? Bolshunov looked strong today, but fell on the last uphill. Retivykh looked solid, but again, he stumbled and lost his chance for the semifinal. Gafarov probably not. The other options are Kriukov or even Bessmertnykh, but they'll probably rest him for the 15km Classic and relay.
Re:
Klæbo is much more than a mini-Peter. I think he is a more unique talent and that he might become as dominant as Bjørgen has been on the women's side. He´s more complete than Peter and when he has built up his stamina he might even on the longer distances be capable of choosing to do the early attack Sunnby-style or just do the waiting game of Northug with the same glorious result. He is that good.
Even Pellegrino said that Klæbo has really frighten both him and Ustiugov to the point of believing that this might be their last chance of a championship title before the reign of Klæbo. And both of them are still in the early stages of their careers!
Mayomaniac said:
Klæbo is much more than a mini-Peter. I think he is a more unique talent and that he might become as dominant as Bjørgen has been on the women's side. He´s more complete than Peter and when he has built up his stamina he might even on the longer distances be capable of choosing to do the early attack Sunnby-style or just do the waiting game of Northug with the same glorious result. He is that good.
Even Pellegrino said that Klæbo has really frighten both him and Ustiugov to the point of believing that this might be their last chance of a championship title before the reign of Klæbo. And both of them are still in the early stages of their careers!
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:
The thing is, Klaebo and Ustiugov are world class when it come to distance races. Pellegrino isn't. It sounds like Klaebo is a shoe in for the team sprint. Monsen said they'll decide tomorrow who to pair him with. My guess is Iversen. Ustiugov will race the skiathlon, team sprint and relay. Pellegrino will definitely race the team sprint, but I very much doubt the Italians will be factors in that race.
Norbea said:
The thing is, Klaebo and Ustiugov are world class when it come to distance races. Pellegrino isn't. It sounds like Klaebo is a shoe in for the team sprint. Monsen said they'll decide tomorrow who to pair him with. My guess is Iversen. Ustiugov will race the skiathlon, team sprint and relay. Pellegrino will definitely race the team sprint, but I very much doubt the Italians will be factors in that race.
- Sep 25, 2009
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klaebo is a real talent, but he has at leat 2 problems to outshining the world. perhaps more obstacles but the 2 most obvious are:
1. ustiougov
2. the world talent pool including the very competitive norwegian conveyor.
each talent has his/her own trajectory. some early wunderkinds flashed up and disappeared, some - klaebo certainly among them - kept delivering. ustiougov is, imo, much more among those who kept delivering than klaebo. not only b/c he's older and therefore had a longer chance, but not the least, b/c he had to contend not only with proving his rare talent, but also rising through a very abusive and much less friendly development system. for instance, he had to fight sternly the executive opinion of some coaches that he had to compete only in the sprints.
he fought the domestic russian morons and he was absolutely correct winning the tds in an unprecedented manner.
i cant see klaebo developing this kind of tough mentality in norway where the control of almost everything concerning competition is decided by a xc ski zhar like vidar lofshus. klaebo is nothing but a small screw of the norge state controlled machinery. he he may, but may not , be given a chance by the essentially a communist-like, very centralized and political bureaucracy.
the norwegian xc ski system is highly hierarchical top to bottom, almost like in north korea. it starts with olympiatoppen, continues downward to the state sponsored everything - doctors, travel, health, etc - to end up with a total financial, public relations and even moral supprt should one fail the disciplinary fis (or wada) rules.
it is exactly as i described. people from other democratic countries may found themselves shocked. yet, it is hardly challenged in scandinavia. even in norway it is so much a routine, that most norges will find you boring if you keep talking about the norge system...
1. ustiougov
2. the world talent pool including the very competitive norwegian conveyor.
each talent has his/her own trajectory. some early wunderkinds flashed up and disappeared, some - klaebo certainly among them - kept delivering. ustiougov is, imo, much more among those who kept delivering than klaebo. not only b/c he's older and therefore had a longer chance, but not the least, b/c he had to contend not only with proving his rare talent, but also rising through a very abusive and much less friendly development system. for instance, he had to fight sternly the executive opinion of some coaches that he had to compete only in the sprints.
he fought the domestic russian morons and he was absolutely correct winning the tds in an unprecedented manner.
i cant see klaebo developing this kind of tough mentality in norway where the control of almost everything concerning competition is decided by a xc ski zhar like vidar lofshus. klaebo is nothing but a small screw of the norge state controlled machinery. he he may, but may not , be given a chance by the essentially a communist-like, very centralized and political bureaucracy.
the norwegian xc ski system is highly hierarchical top to bottom, almost like in north korea. it starts with olympiatoppen, continues downward to the state sponsored everything - doctors, travel, health, etc - to end up with a total financial, public relations and even moral supprt should one fail the disciplinary fis (or wada) rules.
it is exactly as i described. people from other democratic countries may found themselves shocked. yet, it is hardly challenged in scandinavia. even in norway it is so much a routine, that most norges will find you boring if you keep talking about the norge system...
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re:
Ustiugov's first coach was interviewed today and he said that Sergey was almost a biathlete, but at the age of 16 he stayed 100% with xc. The coach also said that he is a unique talent and, essentially 'taught' him to not be too happy with 2nd place.
Interesting take on the Russian and Norwegian systems. In some ways very different and in other ways, pretty similar. I think it was good for Ustiugov and some of the other guys to switch gears and join Burgermeister, Knauthe and Cramer.
As far as the skiathlon races tomorrow are concerned, I think it'll be tough fight, no doubt. Ustiugov said he may be in better shape than he was at the Tour de Ski. Northug said that Ustiugov looked very focused yesterday, even at the medal ceremony, looking as if means business in Lahti. The Norwegians said they'll be racing tactically against Ustiugov, trying to force the pace during the classic leg. Ustiugov does look like he is in really good shape. If his skis are good tomorrow, as they were yesterday, he'll be a tough nut to crack. If he is with the lead group during the skate portion, he'll be the favorite. If the Norwegians do end up pushing the pace right from the start, I think a small group will fight for the win. The course is tough. The conditions look like they should be good, with hard pack skiing and fast. That should help Ustiugov. The field also isn't as strong. No Cologna, no Olsson, no Legkov, no Vylegzhanin, no Northug, Halfvarsson isn't in the sort of shape he was early in the season. How will Heikkinen ski in front of the home crowd? What about Manificat, can he hang during the classic leg? He had a good race in Otepaa. The Russians are also hinting at team tactics. Bessmertnykh being included here tells me two things. He maybe 'training' for the 15km classic, so he'll do his thing and be at or near the front, and not worry too much during the skate leg, where he is likely to lose time. Larkov can help Ustiugov in the skate portion and Bolshunov, the first year senior, may just ski his own race. I am interested to see how he does tomorrow. The Russians are also saying he wants to do every single race here. Not sure that's the best thing for him, but he is certainly very talented. Qualifying 8th in your first major championship, (no world cup racing for him yet), is pretty impressive.
The women's race could bring some fireworks as well. It all depends on what people like Kalla will do. If she is in shape, she should challenge for medals, even the gold medal. The Norwegian women (especially Bjoergen and Weng) are the favorites, but Kalla, Diggins, Nilsson (???), Parmakoski, Chekaleva, should feature.
python said:
Ustiugov's first coach was interviewed today and he said that Sergey was almost a biathlete, but at the age of 16 he stayed 100% with xc. The coach also said that he is a unique talent and, essentially 'taught' him to not be too happy with 2nd place.
Interesting take on the Russian and Norwegian systems. In some ways very different and in other ways, pretty similar. I think it was good for Ustiugov and some of the other guys to switch gears and join Burgermeister, Knauthe and Cramer.
As far as the skiathlon races tomorrow are concerned, I think it'll be tough fight, no doubt. Ustiugov said he may be in better shape than he was at the Tour de Ski. Northug said that Ustiugov looked very focused yesterday, even at the medal ceremony, looking as if means business in Lahti. The Norwegians said they'll be racing tactically against Ustiugov, trying to force the pace during the classic leg. Ustiugov does look like he is in really good shape. If his skis are good tomorrow, as they were yesterday, he'll be a tough nut to crack. If he is with the lead group during the skate portion, he'll be the favorite. If the Norwegians do end up pushing the pace right from the start, I think a small group will fight for the win. The course is tough. The conditions look like they should be good, with hard pack skiing and fast. That should help Ustiugov. The field also isn't as strong. No Cologna, no Olsson, no Legkov, no Vylegzhanin, no Northug, Halfvarsson isn't in the sort of shape he was early in the season. How will Heikkinen ski in front of the home crowd? What about Manificat, can he hang during the classic leg? He had a good race in Otepaa. The Russians are also hinting at team tactics. Bessmertnykh being included here tells me two things. He maybe 'training' for the 15km classic, so he'll do his thing and be at or near the front, and not worry too much during the skate leg, where he is likely to lose time. Larkov can help Ustiugov in the skate portion and Bolshunov, the first year senior, may just ski his own race. I am interested to see how he does tomorrow. The Russians are also saying he wants to do every single race here. Not sure that's the best thing for him, but he is certainly very talented. Qualifying 8th in your first major championship, (no world cup racing for him yet), is pretty impressive.
The women's race could bring some fireworks as well. It all depends on what people like Kalla will do. If she is in shape, she should challenge for medals, even the gold medal. The Norwegian women (especially Bjoergen and Weng) are the favorites, but Kalla, Diggins, Nilsson (???), Parmakoski, Chekaleva, should feature.
- May 29, 2011
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Be interesting to see if both skiathlons will be raced full on from the gun. I think so - the norwegians will push the pace to try and eliminate nilsson, ustiugov respectively, and others with a decent kick. Things get a lot more interesting if they are raced otherwise.
In addition to those mentioned I expect that Alex harvey will do really well in men. Of course he must hang on during the classic leg but I think he is up to it.
In addition to those mentioned I expect that Alex harvey will do really well in men. Of course he must hang on during the classic leg but I think he is up to it.
- Aug 9, 2012
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@Bullsfan22
Bjørgens skis were fine during the sprint. She hasn't been able to train as much due to being injured a lot during the offseason. So she has skipped a lot of quickness training. So her ability to negotiate the heat was much reduced. Also, the snow was looser and slower outside the lead track.
And don't write off Calle just yet. IIRC he just came off altitude training, so his form might be variable in the early part of the championships.
@Python
Loved your analysis of the Norwegian system.
:lol:
IIRC Klæbo in a story on NRK on Thursday explained that his grandfather was his main mentor.
For a look at how quick he is compared to a regular dude, this is a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQCdqD5rYA
Bjørgens skis were fine during the sprint. She hasn't been able to train as much due to being injured a lot during the offseason. So she has skipped a lot of quickness training. So her ability to negotiate the heat was much reduced. Also, the snow was looser and slower outside the lead track.
And don't write off Calle just yet. IIRC he just came off altitude training, so his form might be variable in the early part of the championships.
@Python
Loved your analysis of the Norwegian system.
:lol:
IIRC Klæbo in a story on NRK on Thursday explained that his grandfather was his main mentor.
For a look at how quick he is compared to a regular dude, this is a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQCdqD5rYA
- Sep 25, 2009
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i dont think there is even a single poster here or particularly on that other xc ski thread, who hasnt saw thru his virulent, arrogant, self-righteous fanboyism. he tries to bait the relatively new posters into an exchange, but the majority just ignore him.Põhja Konn said:
- Sep 25, 2009
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Re:
i look at the norwegian championship some weeks ago for projecting the norges...sundby for sure the strongest, but - most probably forgot - ustiougov was in it too and was 10th, BUT .....he was the fastest in the skating leg leading single handedly a big pack of strong norges. if they dont drop him, sundby is toast...
the ladies just started....i dont think it will be anywhere near as the exciting an event as the men's race. sundby sounded close to a panic when he wowed after the ustiougov qual victory.meat puppet said:
i look at the norwegian championship some weeks ago for projecting the norges...sundby for sure the strongest, but - most probably forgot - ustiougov was in it too and was 10th, BUT .....he was the fastest in the skating leg leading single handedly a big pack of strong norges. if they dont drop him, sundby is toast...
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