Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[kingjr]

I think it would have played into Ustiugov's hands had sundby come first out of the Lahti svingen. I don't see Sundby dropping him at all in this race, Ustiugov looked to be cruising. So did Sundby, but I don't particularly like his chances in a finish like this.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

who thinks that sundby could gain the front had he not fallen and broke the pole ?

by my preliminary look, he seemed pulling away, but the top of the hill was just there and ustiuogov at worst would have been right behind to win the sprint w/o much trouble. me thinks.

He was definitely pulling away from Ustiugov, though not by a lot. The climb was too short.

 

[meat puppet]

Sundby was getting a gap, definitely. But I think Ustjugov would have bridged and then outsprinted him.

 

[Kokoso]

Sundby was maybe little bit faster ATM, but it's impossible to say he was pulling from Ustiugov. No way he had any kind of gap at the moment of his mistake. It's also possible that Ustiugov would accelerate, too. Sundby had kind moment of suprise on his side.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

Sundby was maybe little bit faster ATM, but it's impossible to say he was pulling from Ustiugov. No way he had any kind of gap at the moment of his mistake. It's also possible that Ustiugov would accelerate, too. Sundby had kind moment of suprise on his side.

'pulling away' as in 'he had faster speed than Ustiugov'

 

[python]

serhey just told an interviewer that he noticed martin pretended a fatigue which alerted him.

agree with both meat and cance. we saw the same - a small gap was developing but absolutly nothing to threaten the ustiougov much superior sprinting. 2 factors contributed: the relatively short final hill and sundby failing to lull serhey. both started their full acceleration almost simultaneously.

to have any chance for the gold, martin should have dropped ustiougov earlier, which tried 2-3 times, but failed...

comment worthy also is that it was serthey who skied away from the entire field quite early. it would be interesting to know if he planned it, or just saw the gap and kept pouring in ? i think he knew of the possibility once he felt the skis were gliding well...

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

who thinks that sundby could gain the front had he not fallen and broke the pole ?

by my preliminary look, he seemed pulling away, but the top of the hill was just there and ustiuogov at worst would have been right behind to win the sprint w/o much trouble. me thinks.

Me too, the finish is really good for Ustiugov. Yoshida surprised me, he was really strong and still finished 12th after the Bessmertnykh crash.

 

[sworks]

Are the poles too thin nowadays? More and more brakes in my opinion. Are they lighter than, say, a couple of years ago?

 

[meat puppet]

I dont think the poles are substantially lighter now than a couple seasons ago. Or even ten yrs ago. The skiers are becoming stronger and stronger, and hence there is little sense in making poles lighter unless they also stay as stiff as before. Otherwise their ability to transfer power is compromised for gains of mere tens of grams or so, which is peanuts really.

Instead, my guess is racing has become more aggressive and there are thus more close encounters and thereby more broken poles. Carbon poles are very fragile when struck from the side.

 

[Pazuzu]

Marit Bjoergen - 2017 Skiathlon (7.5 km Classic & 7.5 km Free) World Champion!

http://medias1.fis-ski.com/pdf/2017/CC/2223/2017CC2223RL.pdf

 

[Norbea]

Re:

Says it can give a 10% speed advantage. http://www.langrenn.com/norges-skidress-vm-2017-dahlie-race-suit-lahti.5961718-1743.html

Edit: See now that the men are also wearing both suits in the 30k.

Can´t believe a suit can give such an advantage. Sounds like a gross over exaggeretion by the manufacturer.

The reason why some use it and some don´t is just because it is so new that some of them hasn't´t had the time to get one that fits as good as the old one.

 

[sworks]

Falla said her new dress was too tight around the neck, and it was not time enough to fix it.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Sundby was maybe little bit faster ATM, but it's impossible to say he was pulling from Ustiugov. No way he had any kind of gap at the moment of his mistake. It's also possible that Ustiugov would accelerate, too. Sundby had kind moment of suprise on his side.

'pulling away' as in 'he had faster speed than Ustiugov'

Agree with that.

Edit: but is that the same actually? It seems "pulling away has different meaning from "being faster".

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

agree with both meat and cance. we saw the same - a small gap was developing

Actually Cance never said anything about gap.

 

[meat puppet]

Re: Re:

agree with both meat and cance. we saw the same - a small gap was developing

Actually Cance never said anything about gap.

Isnt that just semantics, though? If two skiers start from a leveled position, then over time one being faster than the other will result in a small gap developing. Or one pulling away from the other.

 

[Jaco0505]

Re: Re:

Says it can give a 10% speed advantage. http://www.langrenn.com/norges-skidress-vm-2017-dahlie-race-suit-lahti.5961718-1743.html

Edit: See now that the men are also wearing both suits in the 30k.

Can´t believe a suit can give such an advantage. Sounds like a gross over exaggeretion by the manufacturer.

The reason why some use it and some don´t is just because it is so new that some of them hasn't´t had the time to get one that fits as good as the old one.

They say it reduces up to 10% of the drag at at speeds between 22 - 75 km/h. That is not the same as 10% speed advantage. But the statement is pretty vague, the speed spectrum is so wide. Maybe it is more like like 1-3% drag reduction at normal speeds like 25kmh and 10% at 75kmt

 

[Blaaswix]

Re: Re:

Says it can give a 10% speed advantage. http://www.langrenn.com/norges-skidress-vm-2017-dahlie-race-suit-lahti.5961718-1743.html

Edit: See now that the men are also wearing both suits in the 30k.

Can´t believe a suit can give such an advantage. Sounds like a gross over exaggeretion by the manufacturer.

The reason why some use it and some don´t is just because it is so new that some of them hasn't´t had the time to get one that fits as good as the old one.

They say it reduces up to 10% of the drag at at speeds between 22 - 75 km/h. That is not the same as 10% speed advantage. But the statement is pretty vague, the speed spectrum is so wide. Maybe it is more like like 1-3% drag reduction at normal speeds like 25kmh and 10% at 75kmt

Still think that a national team should all wear the same suit.

 

[python]

i was thinking of some things that may have made a difference today in terms of a winner vs the runner-up...

here they are in a parting post...

1. the conditions indeed were a tad firmer today than during the indv. sprints. for men, just before the departure the air was appr. -2C and the snow was -5.5 C. little doubt, it put a much heavier ustiougov (vs martin) in a more equal position compared to a a race in slush.

2. unlike in the tds skiathlon won by ustiougov (it was 10k C+10k F), the length of the classic leg today was traditional - 15k. still, sundby was ABSOLUTELY unable to put serhey in a visible difficulty, despite having been able to do just that in their previous classic man-o-man... it used to be simple - if the classic distance race was long enough. ustiougov was unable to keep up with the beard due to his INEFFICIENT classic. what i saw today was that the gap btn martin and serhey in a classic distance race was much reduced. could be the consequence of his progress in the classic efficiency or a testimony to his special fitness right now facilitated by the hard snow....

3. ustiougov had lead most of the race from the front, including dropping everyone with 10k to go. northug NEVER raced this way. thus, i'd agree with the poster who thinks petter never was as good as ustiougov we saw. what could it mean ? imo, we are seeing an aggressive, calculating, confident dude that knows he can last as long as anyone or he can accelerate better than most to make the final punch.

he will aslo, i hear, anchor the team sprint tomorrow...looks like the russ is exploiting their brightest asset to the breaking point.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

In terms of cleanness of style I wager Sundby looks better than anyone most of the time. His style is excellent.

Ustiugov + clean technique (could) = consistent peak Northug

Northug's technique isn't something to rave about, particularly his V1.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

i was thinking of some things that may have made a difference today in terms of a winner vs the runner-up...

here they are in a parting post...

1. the conditions indeed were a tad firmer today than during the indv. sprints. for men, just before the departure the air was appr. -2C and the snow was -5.5 C. little doubt, it put a much heavier ustiougov (vs martin) in a more equal position compared to a a race in slush.

2. unlike in the tds skiathlon won by ustiougov (it was 10k C+10k F), the length of the classic leg today was traditional - 15k. still, sundby was ABSOLUTELY unable to put serhey in a visible difficulty, despite having been able to do just that in their previous classic man-o-man... it used to be simple - if the classic distance race was long enough. ustiougov was unable to keep up with the beard due to his INEFFICIENT classic. what i saw today was that the gap btn martin and serhey in a classic distance race was much reduced. could be the consequence of his progress in the classic efficiency or a testimony to his special fitness right now facilitated by the hard snow....

3. ustiougov had lead most of the race from the front, including dropping everyone with 10k to go. northug NEVER raced this way. thus, i'd agree with the poster who thinks petter never was as good as ustiougov we saw. what could it mean ? imo, we are seeing an aggressive, calculating, confident dude that knows he can last as long as anyone or he can accelerate better than most to make the final punch.

he will aslo, i hear, anchor the team sprint tomorrow...looks like the russ is exploiting their brightest asset to the breaking point.

Why are you surprised about Ustiugov skiing the anchor tomorrow? That was always in the cards. I am surprised they picked Kriukov. His form hasn't been good at any point this season. Couldn't even make the final in Korea with a weaker field. The Russians should have probably rested Bolshunov or even Bessmertnykh and put one of them in the first leg and have Ustiugov anchor. Maybe Kaminskiy, Vaelbe, and co know something none of us here know. He does have the ability to peak for the big events. Maybe his form has been good recently. Ustiugov should be ok tomorrow. The conditions look like they'll be the same tomorrow, so kicking shouldn't be an issue. The Norwegians are going with Iversen and Klaebo. Obviously neither guy raced today, so they should be fresh. I wonder if they'll employ similar tactics as the Norwegians employed today: try to break the field apart. I don't think they'll wait until the last lap, unless, it's a massive attack.

 

[kingjr]

Women's Team Sprint should be pretty straightforward tomorrow, Norway big favourite, on a good day the Swedes might put up a fight, Russia, Finland maybe Germany will fight for Bronze.

Norway is my favourite for the Men's race too, Klaebo might already lay waste to everybody on his leg and Iversen looks strong enough to bring it home.
Main opponents should be the Russians, although I too am not quite sure how I feel about Kriukov running. His main asset is his double poling into the finish, which would make him a natural choice for Leg 2, and Ustiugov would be a good choice for Leg 1 to make the race as hard as possible from the start. Kriukov running on Leg 1 either means that he's not at his best, or they are very confident in Ustiugov's finish.

 

[python]

...team sprints semis to get off in 1 h.

i am not so sure that falla/weng is such an overwhelming gold favourite. a podium ? almost certain, but i like the nilsson/ingersmarsdotter chances just as much. matveva/belorukova also have a fair chance at a medal of ANY quality. yep, i am that confident of belorukova's staying power (in her preferred classic) and matveva's finish kick. the finnish girls, the us with diggins and even slovenia with their very experienced lampic and visnar will all add to the podium tension...

among the guys, i'd agree that klaebo/iversen are the faves. italy and finland at least on paper are a podium candidates. yes, inclusion of krioukov was a surprise. i can only see one reason - the direct instruction from vialbe since sh'e the head coach too. perhaps it was a peculiar russian decision making rooted in personal loyalties.

still, if vialbe knew something we dont, it is hardly an overstatement to see ustiougov outsprint everyone in the 3d heat should krioukov by some miracle NOT be behind by more that 5 seconds....

he is that good in lahti..

almost forgot about harvey/valjas who can score a medal of any quality too.

 

[python]

in the ladies, it was remarkable to watch the ease with which stina just floated up the last hill being almost unseen before...in the matveva/belorikova tandem surprisingly it was the 1st that looked weaker. she finished 4th with big gap being either weak or smart in the knowledge of making the final anyway...

in men, klaebo's superiority was huge. i think his skis are prepped to favour gliding as he was visibly gliding away from everyone on the last long down hill into the stadium. the same is confirmed by how he ran uphills. literally ran raising his tips and knees much higher than others landing on the tips but thus allowing higher cadence. this was contrasted by a more traditional herring bone by everyone elsewhere the innerski sides are loaded. the 1st impression of krioukov was also better than expected changing 2nd in each of his heats. as expected, the finns and ustiougov very strong (despite his fall).

Almost all faves are in the finals in both genders.

klaebo should fear niskanen on the last uphill.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Team Sprint is a stupid format, an awful type of race, offers little to no excitement and literally has no justifiable reason to exist. It adds nothing to the sport and its being placed on a weekend relegates one of the races I'm most keen to see, the 10/15 classic, to a weekday when I can't watch. I hope they euthanize it swiftly.

I dislike the proliferation of the individual sprint, but I at least recognize its value as a format, just think there's too many of them. I don't see any merit or benefit to the Team Sprint whatsoever. This goes doubly so for Nordic Combined when it's even more ridiculous, and for biathlon where the Single Mixed Relay offers next to no skiing challenge because of the flat loop around the stadium accounting for half of it, and is just a shooting competition.

 

[python]

Re:

matveva/belorukova also have a fair chance at a medal of ANY quality. yep, i am that confident of belorukova's staying power (in her preferred classic) ....

anyone watching the final live, should appreciate the accuracy my prediction re. belorukova's endurance