Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I though Germany would walk the mixed relay. But the Norwegian women performing much better than expected opens it up a lot more.

That shows what i know, the women were absolutely terrible.
only hope now is that fourcade chokes on his last couple of shots again.
That Windisch finish looked suspicious as f'ck.

What did he do?

 

[python]

Re: Re:

I though Germany would walk the mixed relay. But the Norwegian women performing much better than expected opens it up a lot more.

That shows what i know, the women were absolutely terrible.
only hope now is that fourcade chokes on his last couple of shots again.
That Windisch finish looked suspicious as f'ck.

What did he do?

crossed finishing lanes. imo perfectly legally... unless i have missed something.

also, fourcade seems the most dominant frenchman since napoleon who wasnt even a frenchman...at least in the sense fourcade is

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I though Germany would walk the mixed relay. But the Norwegian women performing much better than expected opens it up a lot more.

That shows what i know, the women were absolutely terrible.
only hope now is that fourcade chokes on his last couple of shots again.
That Windisch finish looked suspicious as f'ck.

What did he do?

crossed finishing lanes. imo perfectly legally... unless i have missed something.

also, fourcade seems the most dominant frenchman since napoleon who wasnt even a frenchman...at least in the sense fourcade is

He’s the most prolific winner in the Olympics for France now.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Am I being too harsh calling Fourcade’s Olympics a failure, whatever happens in the mass start?

I was too harsh.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

I though Germany would walk the mixed relay. But the Norwegian women performing much better than expected opens it up a lot more.

That shows what i know, the women were absolutely terrible.
only hope now is that fourcade chokes on his last couple of shots again.
That Windisch finish looked suspicious as f'ck.

What did he do?

Windisch changed finish lines at the the finish straight to close Peiffer down. Clearly he went middle line and when he saw Peiffer is on his left side, changed for the left line which forced Peiffer to slow down and take middle line. IMHO Windisch knew very well what's he doing. Pretty unsportmanlike. But who cares about sportsmanship, right? :sad:

Biathlon rules enable that, nordic skiing rules do not enable that. Interesting.

 

[Erwin]

Re: Re:

I though Germany would walk the mixed relay. But the Norwegian women performing much better than expected opens it up a lot more.

That shows what i know, the women were absolutely terrible.
only hope now is that fourcade chokes on his last couple of shots again.
That Windisch finish looked suspicious as f'ck.

What did he do?

Windisch changed finish lines at the the finish straight to close Peiffer down. Clearly he went middle line and when he saw Peiffer is on his left side, changed for the left line which forced Peiffer to slow down and take middle line. IMHO Windisch knew very well what's he doing. Pretty unsportmanlike. But who cares about sportsmanship, right? :sad:

Biathlon rules enable that, nordic skiing rules do not enable that. Interesting.

Officially xc skiing rules do not allow that, but in practice they do when the stakes are high enough. I don't remember anybody getting relegated in a sprint finish in the WC or Olympics because of changing lines in the past few years even though it has happened a few times. For example, in this year's U20 WC, Frida Karlsson changed line less than 10 meters from the finish without any reason and clearly obstructed Anita Korva, who would maybe have passed her for the bronze. No penalty. Another example: Sundby changed lines in the finishing straight to block Vylegzhanin in Sochi 2014 skiathlon and wasn't penalized either.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Am I being too harsh calling Fourcade’s Olympics a failure, whatever happens in the mass start?

do you still think the same?

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Am I being too harsh calling Fourcade’s Olympics a failure, whatever happens in the mass start?

do you still think the same?

He should really have 5 golds to be fair.

 

[Norbea]

Re:

...20 minutes ago reported by the NRK...it is sundby-klaebo and bjoergen- falla.

As a Norwegian I am not sure the sports directors have shuffled their cards right. I don't agree with the choice of Sundby teaming up with Klæbo. I am not sure Sundby is fast enough. I would opt for Golberg, who looked fresh in the sprint.

The discussion on the women's team has been the match up against Sweden. Should Bjørgen go against Kalla or Nilson? That's a hard one to figure out, but I think it is better to match her up against Kalla and give Falla another go at Nilson.

The biggest shock is that Bjøntegård is out of the biathlon mens relay. Birkeland is in. I don't get it.

 

[Brullnux]

Yeah it seems weird to have Sundby in what is a very intense race before the 50km. Maybe he reckons it's good prep, while also winning a medal.

 

[python]

Re:

Yeah it seems weird to have Sundby in what is a very intense race before the 50km. Maybe he reckons it's good prep, while also winning a medal.

indeed the race will be intense - as a sprint supposed to be - but there is imo little to worry for sundby (or any elite skier) wrt to the affect on a 50k to come. it is mainly due to 2 factors.

a. the team sprint is literally a threshold effort (80-90% of max) lasting 3-4 minutes and repeated 3 times. that is, a relatively short intense effort lasting a fraction of what an elite athlete does during his/her routine interval training.
b. the rest period before a 50k is relatively generous - 3 days. plenty to recover.

but i will agree, with regard to sundby specifically, his racing calendar is typically season long b/c he chases the world cup points (perhaps less so this season). and what is amazing, he is one of the least healthy skiers in the peloton. based on the verified public records he is/was suffering besides asthma, heart problems, immune disorders and frequent digestive issues. how he does win so much is a subject of another area...

added: the qualification race makes it a longer effort but still hardly something to worry about

 

[Discgear]

How on earth could all the real contenders, except Norway, be placed in the less favourable 2nd heat with shorter recovery time before the final? It is a smash setup for Norway.

 

[meat puppet]

Agree with the overall take by Python. And I think most athletes will definitely do a session of hi intensity openers during the week before the 50k and 30k as part of their prep.

Though, I would say the intensity in aerobic terms is definitely above threshold and closer to 95% vo2max or so - especially in the finals. Moreover, this is interspersed with supramaximal neuromuscular bursts - on the hills, in fighting for position, end spurt etc. So it is definitely a very taxing competition on the muscular and central nervous systems.

Even so, plenty of time to recover from the physical effort before the distance races, at least in principle. However, the time of the competition is rather late at night. So, if an athlete has a propensity to suffer from, say, "busy feet" and elevated alertness post competition, there is a risk of suffering a night bad sleep, which in turn will compromise recovery. So some might want to play it safe. BTW, this was the reason given by Niskanen the bro, for instance.

 

[ToreBear]

Hellner strikes me as the prototype of what you want in a first leg in freestyle in the team sprint. His combination of burst and economy feels like a perfect fit for this job.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

How on earth could all the real contenders, except Norway, be placed in the less favourable 2nd heat with shorter recovery time before the final? It is a smash setup for Norway.

It looked pretty dubious, however the men have the second heat with much stronger teams, so its probably circumstantial.

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

How on earth could all the real contenders, except Norway, be placed in the less favourable 2nd heat with shorter recovery time before the final? It is a smash setup for Norway.

It looked pretty dubious, however the men have the second heat with much stronger teams, so its probably circumstantial.

No, It's a plot to rob Sweden of their Glory.

And the benefit of going second is that you know what times you need to beat to get to the final.

 

[BullsFan22]

Klaebo again with rockets on his feet. Doesn't even need a draft. He blew past Hamilton and Cologna as if they were standing still.

 

[python]

Re:

Hellner strikes me as the prototype of what you want in a first leg in freestyle in the team sprint. His combination of burst and economy feels like a perfect fit for this job.

agree, hellener looked terrific. halfvarsson less so.

i also got an impression that the french made norway spend more energy to qualify than it hoped to cost them.

@meat
agree the intensity of a team sprint can be higher than what i wrote. then, as we often see, there are tactical games they play occasionally that substantially lower the average effort. i recall an older study where a distance skier elite group was compared to a sprinter group. my numbers are from there...

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

Hellner strikes me as the prototype of what you want in a first leg in freestyle in the team sprint. His combination of burst and economy feels like a perfect fit for this job.

agree, hellener looked terrific. halfvarsson less so.

i also got an impression that the french made norway spend more energy to qualify than it hoped to cost them.

@meat
agree the intensity of a team sprint can be higher than what i wrote. then, as we often see, there are tactical games they play occasionally that substantially lower the average effort. i recall an older study where a distance skier elite group was compared to a sprinter group. my numbers are from there...

It's hard to tell with Klaebo, but Sundby looked a little tired. But I think they were very focused on saving energy throughout the race with Sundby not worrying about gaps since Klaebo closes them with little effort. It will be interesting to see Sundby vs. Hellner since Hellner looked to be in his element. The question with Hellner is how he handles potential problems in a thight field. If he becomes impatient he could burn a lot of unnecessary energy.

 

[BullsFan22]

If the Russians get a medal out of their men, I'll be really impressed. They've already EXCEEDED expectations by getting 5 medals in xc (equalling the Sochi total, to put it in perspective) with skiers that were not in the Olympics in 2014, including many who were 17-19 years old 4 years ago. I shudder to think how strong this team would have been with the absolute best in Korea. If Spitsov, Bolshunov, Belorukova, Nepryeava, Sedova, etc are able to ski so well and get medals, imagine what an in form Ustiugov would do, especially in these hard packed, fast conditions?!? Scary. I am not 100% sure that Klaebo and the Norwegians would have it all their own way. Belorukova, Nepryeava, Sedova all train with Kramer. There's no doubt Ustiugov, who also does, would have been in (at least) solid shape. If we had any doubts as to why Bach and the IOC didn't invite Sergey, this erases any confusion...Shame. We are robbed of better racing.

Norwegian women will be tough to beat. I don't think they had any other choice. Falla and Bjoergen are the fittest for this discipline, plus experienced and tough. If Sweden beats them...I'll be surprised. Everyone else will be fighting for the minor places. Diggins is strong, but Randall isn't. Diggins also had very good skis, which should help her get back time, which she will no doubt be trying to catch since Bjoergen will likely gap Randall (and the rest). Nepryeava also looked very strong on the uphill and looked relatively easy on the flats and downhills. Belorukova seems a bit more tired, and her skis aren't as good as Nepryeava's. Hopefully the servicemen give her a better pair for the final. She'll need them. The Finns not convincing. Parmakoski, solid as a rock, as she usually is, but not tip top and Laukkanen isn't in form. She looked very tired on the last lap. The Swiss could surprise. Van Der Graff knows how to ski the flats and can finish. Should be an interesting final, but right now it's the the Norwegians as clear favorites and then Sweden, US, Russia, Switzerland, Finland, Slovenia....Fessel looked dead. She's battled an illness and Ringwald has had to do most of the work, plus one of their changeovers/tags was horrible, almost lost it all on that exchange.

 

[ToreBear]

Love it!

Well deserved Gold for Diggins and Randall.

 

[python]

my hat is off to the american girls. stina lost i a pure sprint.

 

[ToreBear]

Re:

my hat is off to the american girls. stina lost i a pure sprint.

She looked very tired on that last downhill. A few more years to build endurance and we will remember fondly the last time someone other than Stina won a sprint.

 

[meat puppet]

Good finale. On top of the last climb, I was sure Nilsson was out of contest having had to catch up and essentially sprinted from the bottom, but she took the descent wonderfully. Well done to Diggins for beating her!

E: Gotta say, Randall surprised me. Yeah, she has been good, but the emphasis is on has been. Basically laid the foundation by sticking with Nor and Swe.

 

[python]

norwegian tactic was superior as were their muscles. no surprise at the russian silver but the swedish miss...

watch out for bolshunov at the 50k podium...