Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Mayomaniac]

Given the weather conditions anything else but the a 2km loop in Oberstdorf would be a shocker. This TDS will be total trash due to the weather and the Lack of competition. Schlickenrieder will love it, though.

You'd think that dork would be smart enough to shut up, now that is 2 best skiers clearly benefit from distance races on hard courses, but it's Schlicki...

 

[BullsFan22]

Two years ago there was a lot of snow at all the TDS venues, which was nice. It was great to see them able to use as much of the courses they did. Seeing Toblach and especially Val Di Fiemme with so much snow was wonderful.

Before 2020/2021 it was 2016/2017 when Val Müstair held distance races, and they had the 5/10km mass start classic races due to low snow. I think 10km is too short for the men to do a mass start. Having a 10km for the next women should be ok. The bummer of course is the low snow, which I, like all of you here, have to wonder why an individual start wasn’t put in. It assures of gap creation and it sets the tour up nicely. The sprints gives the sprinters and all rounders a good opportunity and the individual start distance race gives the distance skiers the chance to gain back lost time and/or overtake the leader(s). There’s little logic in having mass starts, especially short ones, where there is little snow. You have to make the trails wider and with little snow it doesn’t really give you too many spots to do that.

I don’t know if it was FIS or the race organizers or whether some of the teams came forward and suggested the format change. Whoever it is didn’t make the best decision.

A pity that Andersson won’t be there or Sundling or Svahn.

Judging by the competition, I think Diggins will again benefit, as she did two years ago, from lack of tough competition. In 2021 Stupak finished 2nd at the TDS and 2nd in the overall World Cup and she missed the previous season due to pregnancy and didn’t start training fully until the Summer. Nepryaeva wasn’t in form, even though she won the 10km stage in Val Di Fiemme, Andersson had terrible skis in Val Müstair, Karlsson injured herself in Toblach, Sorina wasn’t in her best form, the Finns were not as good as they were last year, Hennig was the only German contending, no Norwegians…This year it’ll be even more pronounced.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Besides someone messing up by making Münstair a mass start, I was just thinking about moving the whole Tour ahead 1 week. Nearly all the big names already spend chrismas away from their families anyway. Plus one week earlier means you won't get totally overshadowed by ski jumping on the German market (and in Austria, Slovenia and Poland).
It would give skiers also an extra week to recover before the wc/Olympics

 

[Mayomaniac]

Also, that Karlsson injury was so stupid, imagine injuring yourself by breaking a nice, old looking doorframe filled with wooden ornaments by doing pull ups on it and posting a pic of you giving the middle finger to the broken doorframe.

She probably needs a very structured training schedule and extra coaching to keep her from overtraining and/or trying really stupid stuff.

My impression that she's a bit of a Kalle...

 

[OJRvE]

So now its a puirsuit again for safety reasons. FIS is a joke.

 

[BullsFan22]

So now its a puirsuit again for safety reasons. FIS is a joke.

Norwegian media reporting that it was the Norwegian team that was pushing for this.

 

[OJRvE]

Norwegian media reporting that it was the Norwegian team that was pushing for this.

Well, the problem is they never should have it changed in the first place.First you should not change the format of the competitions four days before the start, secondly the argument of lapping doesn’t made sense, third nobody understands why the course length is limited to 2,5 as there is plenty of snow in the walley.

I have seen comments about safety from other countries and we have had these discussions previously in Val Mustair. It seems like someone really wanted the mass start even it was probably denied when they set the schedule.

Sporting wise, the pursuit is not something that benefit Norway, Klaebos gains in the sprint are likely to be eaten up, of course he will win any way so it doesn’t matter (and in the unlikely event he won’t another Norwegian will). But on the woman’s side a mass start would really have benefited Tirl Udnes Weng. I read Karlsson was furious when he she heard the first news of mass start and urged the team to issue a protest.

 

[BullsFan22]

Well, the problem is they never should have it changed in the first place.First you should not change the format of the competitions four days before the start, secondly the argument of lapping doesn’t made sense, third nobody understands why the course length is limited to 2,5 as there is plenty of snow in the walley.

I have seen comments about safety from other countries and we have had these discussions previously in Val Mustair. It seems like someone really wanted the mass start even it was probably denied when they set the schedule.

Sporting wise, the pursuit is not something that benefit Norway, Klaebos gains in the sprint are likely to be eaten up, of course he will win any way so it doesn’t matter (and in the unlikely event he won’t another Norwegian will). But on the woman’s side a mass start would really have benefited Tirl Udnes Weng. I read Karlsson was furious when he she heard the first news of mass start and urged the team to issue a protest.

Personally I wish it was an individual start.

 

[OJRvE]

Personally I wish it was an individual start.

I do in a way as it the most fair thing, and the safety issues may come in to play as it will still be very tight.

But it’s a interval start in classics already on Tuesday, and I feel a pursuit will balance out the sprint in a way that I like, plus it could actually be fun races to watch, especially the womens,

 

[Mayomaniac]

Personally I wish it was an individual start.

Yeah, but with the tight TV coverage schedule with Ski jumping and other stuff it's probably hard to fit in an individual start at the last minute, so it's fine.
Good that in the end common sense prevailed and they changed it back to a pursuit, but the initial idea of having a mass start on the shorter, more narrow loop instead was just rather absurd.

Speaking of skiing, did you see that crash between Ustiugov and Bolshunov in that recent Russian sprint race? Apparently it was pretty nasty and Bolshunov lost conciousness for some time afterwards, I hope he's ok. I had a xc skiing incident last year where someone crashed into me (after I fell) and suffered a heavy concussion, they took the poor guy to the hospital with a helicopter. Scary stuff, but thank good nothing worse happened to him.

Looking at the footage it looks like Sasha tried to close the door during that corner and caused the crash by not leaving enough space for Ustiugov.

Välba said that both of them are responsable, but if you hear her whole statement she pretty much admits that Bolshunov didn't give him enough space and that Ustiugov couldn't just dissapear.

 

[Erwin]

Norwegian media reporting that it was the Norwegian team that was pushing for this.

Sweden, Finland, Italy, and Norway launched the proposal to revert back to a pursuit, and Germany, Switzerland, Estonia, GB, and Australia supported it. In other words, there were 2 significant omissions from the list: USA and France. USA pushing for a mass start was not surprising, to say the least.

 

[BullsFan22]

Sweden, Finland, Italy, and Norway launched the proposal to revert back to a pursuit, and Germany, Switzerland, Estonia, GB, and Australia supported it. In other words, there were 2 significant omissions from the list: USA and France. USA pushing for a mass start was not surprising, to say the least.

Probably because it would have benefited Diggins and Brennan the most.

 

[BullsFan22]

Yeah, but with the tight TV coverage schedule with Ski jumping and other stuff it's probably hard to fit in an individual start at the last minute, so it's fine.
Good that in the end common sense prevailed and they changed it back to a pursuit, but the initial idea of having a mass start on the shorter, more narrow loop instead was just rather absurd.

Speaking of skiing, did you see that crash between Ustiugov and Bolshunov in that recent Russian sprint race? Apparently it was pretty nasty and Bolshunov lost conciousness for some time afterwards, I hope he's ok. I had a xc skiing incident last year where someone crashed into me (after I fell) and suffered a heavy concussion, they took the poor guy to the hospital with a helicopter. Scary stuff, but thank good nothing worse happened to him.

Looking at the footage it looks like Sasha tried to close the door during that corner and caused the crash by not leaving enough space for Ustiugov.

Välba said that both of them are responsable, but if you hear her whole statement she pretty much admits that Bolshunov didn't give him enough space and that Ustiugov couldn't just dissapear.

Yeah I’ve been following that and I can tell that both of them are holding back.

Bolshunov has been given the star treatment by the jury. In the classic sprint he obstruct Ustiugov twice in a space of 15 seconds, coming into the last drag into the finish. Ustiugov then said he was done with the race weekend, but later decided to do the skate sprint. There was some back and forth trash talk after Ustiugov dominated the skate sprint in the previous round of Russian cup races, but that was kind of banter and not directly towards Bolshunov, but in general to those that called him a ‘sack’ or ‘bag.’ After the race he said that those that called him that must be embarrassed that they got beat by a ‘sack.’ Bolshunov either isn’t capable of taking light hearted jokes or he is just that kind of person, starts pouting when he loses. He didn’t do interviews when he was beaten by 19 year old Korostelev last month. In this regard, Bolshunov and Klæbo are very similar.

It makes sense that a few seasons ago some of the national team skiers said they have no real feelings towards him, they just say hello and good job and that’s it. Ustiugov seems to be much more liked and he was drawing quite the following from the videos and photos I saw of the races.

Going back to the crash, it’s clear that Bolshunov was in the wrong, he clearly tried to cut it way too tight. He got a yellow card (after long deliberations) following the classic sprint and I am almost certain that had this been a World Cup race, he would have been given a second yellow and a dq.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah I’ve been following that and I can tell that both of them are holding back.

Bolshunov has been given the star treatment by the jury. In the classic sprint he obstruct Ustiugov twice in a space of 15 seconds, coming into the last drag into the finish. Ustiugov then said he was done with the race weekend, but later decided to do the skate sprint. There was some back and forth trash talk after Ustiugov dominated the skate sprint in the previous round of Russian cup races, but that was kind of banter and not directly towards Bolshunov, but in general to those that called him a ‘sack’ or ‘bag.’ After the race he said that those that called him that must be embarrassed that they got beat by a ‘sack.’ Bolshunov either isn’t capable of taking light hearted jokes or he is just that kind of person, starts pouting when he loses. He didn’t do interviews when he was beaten by 19 year old Korostelev last month. In this regard, Bolshunov and Klæbo are very similar.

It makes sense that a few seasons ago some of the national team skiers said they have no real feelings towards him, they just say hello and good job and that’s it. Ustiugov seems to be much more liked and he was drawing quite the following from the videos and photos I saw of the races.

Going back to the crash, it’s clear that Bolshunov was in the wrong, he clearly tried to cut it way too tight. He got a yellow card (after long deliberations) following the classic sprint and I am almost certain that had this been a World Cup race, he would have been given a second yellow and a dq.

Yeah, Bolshunov is just rather unlikable to me. The comment that Sergey made him crash intentionally was also pretty bad.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's not like Sasha doesn't have a history of getting embroiled in such incidents and having a temper shorter than the average Tour de France time trial these days.

 

[BigCoward]

Bolshunov is such a tosser. He needs to understand the concept of 'if you meet an *** in the morning, you met an ***, if you meet them all day, you are the ***'.

 

[Mayomaniac]

A demonstration of strength by Fähnrich. What happened to Diggins and H Weng for both of them to miss the top 30?

Pellegrino really worked on his descending, cornering and accelerating into a descent during the off season, no Klaebo actually has to work for it in a skating sprint.

 

[BullsFan22]

Heidi Weng has struggled more with sprints over the past few seasons, not the first time she’s missed qualifying. For Diggins to miss it however is a surprise, particularly on this course, which suit her strengths. The big picture is that Karlsson already has a decent advantage, and tomorrow she’ll extend that. Also T. Weng, Niskanen, Hennig, and Pärmäkoski all start ahead of Diggins and unless she has the classic race of her life, plus those ahead of her falter, she’ll be in a hole coming to Oberstdorf. And there, the first race is a 10km individual classic. Her only shot is the 20km skate pursuit.

 

[OJRvE]

If Karlsson and Kalvaa cooperate tommorow gaps could be huge. Tiril will try to tuck in there but ideally she needed more seconds today. Niskanen looks strong but will have to do everything herself.

It seemed Klaebo really wanted to do to Pellegrino what Pellegrino did to him in Davos. I think he could have won with other tactics aswell.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The absence of the Russians isn't all just great for Klaebo, now some of the lighter distance skiers who can climb up the Alpe Cermis pretty well will score a decent amount of extra bonus seconds in the sprint races and with the 2 pursuits it shoud be a really close race. He needs to be in the same shape as last year to gain enough of an advantage in the 2 stages in Val di Fiemme, last year he went full Sundby in the classic mass start.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I don't expect too much from Hennig, she picked up a cold over chrismas and was unsure if she'd even start the Tour until the last moment.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Nevermind, super strong performance by Hennig and Heidi Weng.
Niskanen was also super strong and good showings by Dahl and Stadlober.

I guess Donkins will leave the Tour, either now or after Obersdorf.

 

[Mayomaniac]

At some point I expected Klaebo zo increase the pace, mainly on the final lap, but that didn't happen. He can't be happy about loosing half of his advantage to Krüger in a classic race, imo he's clearly not in last year's monster shape. Iivo started too fast, Poromaa and Halvarsson probably did too much work early on. Pellegrino skied a smart race at his own pace. Skar raced like a vulture, always behind Novak only to drop him on the final lap.
Guys like Novak are probably not too happy about the lack of a skating individual start, but the whole raceformat is tailored towards the golden boy...

 

[KZD]

At some point I expected Klaebo zo increase the pace, mainly on the final lap, but that didn't happen. He can't be happy about loosing half of his advantage to Krüger in a classic race, imo he's clearly not in last year's monster shape. Iivo started too fast, Poromaa and Halvarsson probably did too much work early on. Pellegrino skied a smart race at his own pace. Skar raced like a vulture, always behind Novak only to drop him on the final lap.
Guys like Novak are probably not too happy about the lack of a skating individual start, but the whole raceformat is tailored towards the golden boy...

Krüger is the one that seems to be in a monster shape this year, I think the best thing Klæbo can do is to ally himself with Golberg is the 20k pursuit in order to try to avoid Krüger from clawing back all time (he will likely lose a bit of time in the 10k classic but recover in the pursuit) and then hope to gain enough ground in the classic Val di Fiemme races to avoid losing it in the final climb. Can't see anyone apart from these three winning the Tour as Pellegrino will likely lose some time in the next classic races.

In the women's side, Karlsson should have this under control, she will likely drop Niskanen in the 20k pursuit and the final climb should suit her anyway. I expect one of the Norwegians should come third.

 

[OJRvE]

Krüger is the one that seems to be in a monster shape this year, I think the best thing Klæbo can do is to ally himself with Golberg is the 20k pursuit in order to try to avoid Krüger from clawing back all time (he will likely lose a bit of time in the 10k classic but recover in the pursuit) and then hope to gain enough ground in the classic Val di Fiemme races to avoid losing it in the final climb. Can't see anyone apart from these three winning the Tour as Pellegrino will likely lose some time in the next classic races.

In the women's side, Karlsson should have this under control, she will likely drop Niskanen in the 20k pursuit and the final climb should suit her anyway. I expect one of the Norwegians should come third.

I think the puirsuit is on the 10k race only, so if Klaebo has an off day Tuesday he could face some problems. For instance if he drops 20 seconds to a pair of good long distance skate specialists like Röthe, Krüger, Holund, Tönseth and possible Poromaa they could collaborate and put time into him, The likely event is the opposite of course and then a 20 km bore fest where Klaebo wins the sprint and keeps the distance he has today.

Regarding Krüger surely impressive performance today but there is the altitude advantage. But we know from the worlds that he also likes the Oberstdorf tracks (btw according to Swedish commentators there will be a tough 3,3km loop, I hope this means that they go high in the Burgstall climb).

For the woman, it surely looks good for Karlsson, she said in the interview she did not go full gas because she was afraid to blow up in the altitude and save energy to coming races. Tiril admitted it still was very hard to hang on and she was saved by brilliant skies. Very happy for her to win today, she has had a hard time in Norwegian media over the years where she has been blamed for the “poor” regrow of norwegain women. Kerttu did a brilliant race just like one year ago in Lenzerheide, she is truly the queen of altitude in the womens game but her classic style in general is probably best in world now (which she showed in Beitostölen). The Oberstdorf 10k should be intresting, it will be a key race for Tiril especially, she is likely to lose time and there is a risk she will be in a vacuum in the puirsuit.