Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BigCoward]

No Braisaz Bouchet in the relay? Just focusing on overall or something else?
Should make it fairly close between the big 3.

 

[BigCoward]

I don’t know what FIS are trying to do, but there’s no hiding that media’s (especially in the US) attention to Jessie is in part commercial sexism based on physical appearance. NBC (or whichever had the last Winter Olympics) went all in on making her one of “America’s Darlings” for the games, playing up her looks and small-town Midwestern background. They do that for every Olympics, but Jessie fit their template perfectly.

Yeah, if you are going to try and sell XC in America she is the perfect stereotype, bubbly, attractive, successful (and taking it to the Europeans on their own turf would be huge for some Americans).
Europeans aren't going to turn off because of her, but some Americans may turn on.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

No Braisaz Bouchet in the relay? Just focusing on overall or something else?
Should make it fairly close between the big 3.

With two relays in short succession, some teams are probably just trying out different line ups ahead of the world championships. With the results Richard had in Oberhof, she has earned the opportunity to prove her worth. The Swedes are also giving Hanna Öberg the day off, although she didn't have her best day during the Oberhof relay either.

Hauser is starting for Austria, so she should at least get to ski this time around.

 

[search]

Apparently JTB looks likely to take a break as well tomorrow. But with Christiansen back (or even without), it probably won't make too much of a difference.

 

[BigCoward]

If you are going to screw up do it on the first leg, but they aren't coming back from 81 seconds down.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They did continue to drop a bunch of time on each leg afterward, don't know if it was more about the company they were skiing in or what, but that was most definitely not what I expected considering France, Germany and Sweden all had first team athletes rested (Braisaz-Bouchet, Voigt and Hanna Öberg respectively) whereas the Norwegians were full strength with only the order changed.

Ida Lien should be back soon too, she was really fast on the IBU Cup today, although it must be said that the field there is very young this year with both Germany and France fielding squads almost entirely comprised of juniors at the level on the women's side.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They did continue to drop a bunch of time on each leg afterward, don't know if it was more about the company they were skiing in or what, but that was most definitely not what I expected considering France, Germany and Sweden all had first team athletes rested (Braisaz-Bouchet, Voigt and Hanna Öberg respectively) whereas the Norwegians were full strength with only the order changed.

I doubt the remaining 3 Norwegians were highly motivated, at least not as much as they would have been if they had been fighting for a podium. But not a great day for Skogan. Even Carrara avoided a penalty loop.

Ida Lien should be back soon too, she was really fast on the IBU Cup today, although it must be said that the field there is very young this year with both Germany and France fielding squads almost entirely comprised of juniors at the level on the women's side.

Lien's shooting is still not too great, which has cost her multiple victories so far this season.

 

[KZD]

France has to be the favourite for the Worlds relay adter winning today without Braisaz.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

First World Cup glimpse of the new Miriam Gössner, Julia Tannheimer, on Friday. She's 2nd in the current IBU Cup stats and is the second fastest skier at the level, at 18 years and 5 months old. Even Neuner hadn't made the World Cup by that age. She won three youth golds at last year's Junior World Championships, has an IBU Cup win already this season (in a 20-shoot race no less!) and, my favourite yet, scored a Youth Olympic Games top 10 despite literally not hitting a single one of her prone targets.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah, if you are going to try and sell XC in America she is the perfect stereotype, bubbly, attractive, successful (and taking it to the Europeans on their own turf would be huge for some Americans).
Europeans aren't going to turn off because of her, but some Americans may turn on.

The media push plus nearly everything about her seeming planned and not genuine is a turn off for some of the more neutral fans. Not everyone likes the American showmanship with it's scripted/fake drama.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

First World Cup glimpse of the new Miriam Gössner, Julia Tannheimer, on Friday. She's 2nd in the current IBU Cup stats and is the second fastest skier at the level, at 18 years and 5 months old.

What, is she only 18? It feels like its at least 5 years since people started talking about her as the next German superstar.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The media push plus nearly everything about her seeming planned and not genuine is a turn off for some of the more neutral fans. Not everyone likes the American showmanship with it's scripted/fake drama.

In the interest of fairness, this isn't just an American thing. It's also what turned me off about Gabriela Soukalová, who also seemed very contrived and artificial in her media personality. In Jessie's defence, unlike Soukalová I think she genuinely is somewhat like the demeanour she outwardly portrays, but has it dialled up way past 11 to the point of artificiality and seeming forced. That's a character trait which I personally find a turn-off and consistently have done - it's a trait shared by many of the athletes I have most taken against over the years - and I also have a long-standing tendency to aggressively reject narratives I believe are being forced on me aggressively or too heavy-handedly, which the "what's good for Jess Diggins is good for cross-country skiing" camp in the media is definitely guilty of. People will forget because obviously I'm very much in the one camp regarding her this last few years, but once upon a time I will have been neutral regarding her, I didn't just wake up one day hating Jessie Diggins.

What, is she only 18? It feels like its at least 5 years since people started talking about her as the next German superstar.

Nah, Grotian is the next German superstar. Even the mainstream media had picked up on her before her debut. Tannheimer is the next one after that, since although she certainly has been talked up by those in the know for quite some time now, her hype has mostly been confined to the specialist sites and sources so far

 

[frenchfry]

France has to be the favourite for the Worlds relay adter winning today without Braisaz.

It's amazing the difference in the level of shooting for the French women. Just a few years ago they were the squad that couldn't shoot straight - it was just a matter of who would fall apart and how badly. Braisaz Bouchet and Simon have matured into highly efficient biathlon machines and the younger girls are very solid.

On the other hand, the men have gone in the opposite direction. Each of them individually are capable of having as many shooting errors as the 4 women combined. I hope I am wrong but ... we will have the answer in a couple of hours.

 

[BigCoward]

My wife asked me what I want for my 50th and I thought I wouldn't mind going to the biathlon at homenkollen (sister lives in oslo, though annoyingly no longer lives just down the hill which she did before I got interested in nordic sports).
How easy is it to get tickets and how far in advance do they get released?

 

[BigCoward]

Braisaz Bouchet back to the pack. Dropped 30 seconds so far with one miss.
Edit. Now 2 misses, Tandrevold is clawing some points back today.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Decent stuff from Tannheimer today. Her ski speed and shooting time were far from spectacular, but being able to hit all targets in her first ever World Cup race at only 18 will probably be better for her confidence rather than skiing fast and shooting horribly.

Nice win for Tandrevold. The conditions in Oberhof seem to have favoured the French a lot more, although they didn't shoot great today, apart from Jeanmonnot. JBB did have a early fall, but I don't think that cost too much. Preuß would most likely not have been able to match Tandrevold on the last lap anyway, but it's still a shame to see her ruin it for herself with poor shooting.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Decent stuff from Tannheimer today. Her ski speed and shooting time were far from spectacular, but being able to hit all targets in her first ever World Cup race at only 18 will probably be better for her confidence rather than skiing fast and shooting horribly.

Nice win for Tandrevold. The conditions in Oberhof seem to have favoured the French a lot more, although they didn't shoot great today, apart from Jeanmonnot. JBB did have a early fall, but I don't think that cost too much. Preuß would most likely not have been able to match Tandrevold on the last lap anyway, but it's still a shame to see her ruin it for herself with poor shooting.

It‘s actually even the first time Tannheimer has had less than two misses in an IBU race (also including relays, I just found out), so I don‘t expect her to keep doing that.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

It‘s actually even the first time Tannheimer has had less than two misses in an IBU race (also including relays, I just found out), so I don‘t expect her to keep doing that.

I don't expect it either. If she avoids a total meltdown in the pursuit, that alone would be a good performance.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Decent stuff from Tannheimer today. Her ski speed and shooting time were far from spectacular, but being able to hit all targets in her first ever World Cup race at only 18 will probably be better for her confidence rather than skiing fast and shooting horribly.

Magdalena Neuner debuted at 18 years and 11 months old in a sprint at Ruhpolding, finishing 41st at +2'15 with 3 misses. 3 penalty loops at ~25" per loop says about +1'00 if she shot clean, which would put her more or less at the same performance level Tannheimer produced today.

However, the standouts at the front were more standout back in those days as the field wasn't quite so deep and fewer nations were competitive, so that deficit would have had Gold-Lena at approximately 9th rather than the 15th that Tannheimer ended up in.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't expect it either. If she avoids a total meltdown in the pursuit, that alone would be a good performance.

Actually an interesting comparison to raise would be Justine Braisaz-Bouchet. She was similarly a standout junior while still a youth and made her debut in the World Cup in December 2014 at the age of 18 years 5 months, same as Tannheimer. The French team of the time mostly lacked for ski speed, with Marie Dorin-Habert out for motherhood at the time. She finished 16th in the sprint (on 9/10, but this was at Hochfilzen. She DNSed two pursuits that season though, at Hochfilzen and Antholz, to manage workload, and did the same in Hochfilzen the following year.

With Puff and Grotian doing a 1-2 on the IBU Cup as well, the rotation of the younger names on that German team is strong at the moment. I suspect Kebinger might be looking over her shoulder or will be next to sit a week to allow rotation, as Grotian will obviously want back to the World Cup and didn't do anything too bad to get demoted, after all she had a bad pursuit in Oberhof but was 21st in the sprint; Puff wasn't great on her one World Cup outing in December but is running out of things to prove at the IBU Cup too. With Tannheimer succeeding as she did here, the question is how the team manages those younger names to ensure people get their opportunities.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Actually an interesting comparison to raise would be Justine Braisaz-Bouchet. She was similarly a standout junior while still a youth and made her debut in the World Cup in December 2014 at the age of 18 years 5 months, same as Tannheimer. The French team of the time mostly lacked for ski speed, with Marie Dorin-Habert out for motherhood at the time. She finished 16th in the sprint (on 9/10, but this was at Hochfilzen. She DNSed two pursuits that season though, at Hochfilzen and Antholz, to manage workload, and did the same in Hochfilzen the following year.

With Puff and Grotian doing a 1-2 on the IBU Cup as well, the rotation of the younger names on that German team is strong at the moment. I suspect Kebinger might be looking over her shoulder or will be next to sit a week to allow rotation, as Grotian will obviously want back to the World Cup and didn't do anything too bad to get demoted, after all she had a bad pursuit in Oberhof but was 21st in the sprint; Puff wasn't great on her one World Cup outing in December but is running out of things to prove at the IBU Cup too. With Tannheimer succeeding as she did here, the question is how the team manages those younger names to ensure people get their opportunities.

Kebinger hasn't yet build on her promising performances from before this season and will probably be out soon. Schneider has been a bit inconsistent and could also end up in trouble.

The step up from IBU Cup to World Cup can be difficult from some while others seem to thrive almost instantly (for a while at least). You never know if a promising talent becomes a Jeanmonnot/Strømsheim or a Horchler/Högberg/Bjøntegaard, who ends up getting overtaken by younger compatriots/stuck in the IBU Cup due to team politics.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So Myhlback is still racing Ski Classics.
Today he starts the Pustertaler Skimarathon, 62 kms, Italian media already invented a fight between him an Northug for the win...

 

[OJRvE]

So Myhlback is still racing Ski Classics.
Today he starts the Pustertaler Skimarathon, 62 kms, Italian media already invented a fight between him an Northug for the win...

His plan is to race the remaining events except Jizerska. That weekend he’ll be at Planica for Junior WC.

Seems he really likes to compete with the best and since he is far from the World Cup team he is doing Ski Classics.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Kebinger hasn't yet build on her promising performances from before this season and will probably be out soon. Schneider has been a bit inconsistent and could also end up in trouble.

The step up from IBU Cup to World Cup can be difficult from some while others seem to thrive almost instantly (for a while at least). You never know if a promising talent becomes a Jeanmonnot/Strømsheim or a Horchler/Högberg/Bjøntegaard, who ends up getting overtaken by younger compatriots/stuck in the IBU Cup due to team politics.

Schneider will probably always be inconsistent, she came from being a skiing-biased athlete who has had to readjust as she's had injuries and to be competitive as she's hit her senior years, she was a really pleasant surprise last season but she's more a complementary part of the team than someone who can carry results. They can afford to let her have some bad races because they're getting such consistency out of Preuß, Voigt and Hettich-Walz (the latter has bounced around the fringes of the team for a bit but this season she's really turned into a Franziska Hildebrand-type, consistently scoring good results but seldom threatening wins and podiums).

The problem is they've got at least three juniors who have proven all that they need to at the IBU Cup level. Kebinger having been ill and shown what her upper limit is last season probably buys her a bit of time, but all those ones like Weidel, Frühwirt, Scherer and Wiesensarter, the bell has probably tolled for them, they're going to have to really go some to justify further chances when Grotian and Tannheimer appear World Cup-ready, Johanna Puff is at least ready for spot duty, and Schumann (2002) and Kink (2004) are both top IBU Cup competitors this season who might need a bit more time at this level but will be knocking on the door before long too.

 

[BigCoward]

When was the last time a team won a mixed relay with 3 penalty loops?
it helps that most of the better teams also shot terribly.