Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

Page 501 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Some interesting examples here, but I’m not sure if they really work as athletes being clearly more competitive over 30-50km than for example 10-15 km. Boner never broke into top 20 in Holmenkollen 30 km for example, and she was top 15 4 times in the World Cup, all races of 10-15 km. In the World Champs she also had a top 10 in the 10km once.

Ishida is a good example of a very strong 30 km skier, but she also had plenty of top 10 and even top 5s in 10 and 15 kms, so not really a clear difference saying that she was so much better in the longer races.

Smedaas was even a decent sprinter, she’s won sprint races in the Norwegian Cup and she’s been skiing sprint races for Norway in the World Cup. All her best WC results are from 10/15 km as well.

Persson is another vague example, he has some decent results in sprint, I think even last year he won a sprint race in the Swedish Cup ahead of Oskar Svensson.

In general I think there are almost no differences in the skill set that is needed to be good in a 15 km interval start and a 50 km mass start until the final kilometre.
And I think that there is a lot of proof that the skill set needed for sprint race are also very compatible with the long races in Ski Classics. A nice remembering that even sprint races and sprint athletes are endurance events.
The biggest problem in differentiating is what they train in. I tried to stick to people at ages where they would still be able to be viable World Cup athletes (looking at results for people below 35, for a start, trying to pick out people who are specialised Ski Classics competitors rather than those who have moved across after their World Cup days are over as, as you mention, there's a fair amount of 'retirement home' demographics there). And that there are so few 30-50km races on the World Cup compared to 10-15km races that just the numbers of results at each distance alone doesn't tell the whole story. Those entries in the Holmenkollen 30 along with Falun and Sochi are the only World Cup level races of that distance that Boner did, and by the time of the latter ones of those she was very much a part time World Cup entrant who specialised in coming in for those longer races as well as the home events in Switzerland. Another possible factor for her is altitude as well, as I note 3/4 of those top 15s coming in Toblach and Davos. The other is at an event in Szklarska Poręba that none of the Norwegians, Swedes, Finns or American A teams entered. Curiously she also only entered the Holmenkollen 30 when it was in freestyle, whereas her top results in the 30k, at Sochi and Falun, were both in Classic. And also at championships races where the number of entrants from the biggest teams would be limited of course.

I think, moving back to the sprint as a general thing rather than Boner specifically, the other difference is that between the sprint quali and that of being successful in the sprint as a whole, with four times around the course required and the short recovery time required for that. It's the big problem in integrating it into the Tour, because practically nobody bar a couple of athletes in each gender is going to have done the 'full' distance of the race, in qualifying for the finals each time.

However, the random factor in sprints - getting taken out by an also-ran, a broken pole on the run-in or just being in the wrong heat - can end up being far more impactful due to the bonus system, and I dislike both that the system gives the biggest benefits to the format I value least, partly as it is the most susceptible to chance, and that increases the artificiality of the effect on the GC - as mentioned before, Klæbo actually set a slower QF time than Amundsen, but Amundsen wasn't in the top 2 so relied on lucky loser times and got eliminated, Klæbo was in a slower heat he could get in the top 2 of and went through, and took 52" of additional bonuses as a result. A case can be made against my personal valuation of the format, sure, but I don't think a case can be made against it being the most luck-dependent individual format.

I don't think you can solve that in a way that satisfies everybody, because you would have to reward getting further in the competition to justify taking the start. But as the gaps elsewhere in the race are being reduced down to nothing, the sprint time bonuses are becoming increasingly impactful in setting the GC. Much like how in the late 2000s stage win bonuses in the Grand Tours were 20", 12" and 8" and now they are 10", 6" and 4", I think we're overdue a reduction in the amount of time bonuses those stages give.
 
Guess who went on and rant and cried that this Years tour is too hard. He urges Fis to Install shorter distances with less climbing Meters. You all know who IT IS.
The German team mascot strikes again! Despite his atheletes actually doing better in the harder and longer races, but that dork sticks to his guns...
Who? Peter Schlickenrieder?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bavarianrider
TBF a course can be hard without being selective. That Toblach 15k embarrassment is a good example, because the really long descent back in the stadium kills most time gaps.

That said, Schlicki is still an idiot and it feels a lot like he prioritises justifying his own career and pushing the disciplines he was good at when he was active over what's best for either his team (one would think, for example, Moch and Hennig need more difficult racing, not less) or the spectacle.
 
Krüger clearly going all in for the stage win today after his fall yesterday, no way he didn't sandbag after that, losing 4 minutes and then launching this.

Pellegrino 4th and Valnes 6th on GC at 150m to go (edit: 4th and 7th in the end, Moch passed Valnes at the end, TFFT). Top 10 for Baba. Klæbo does have the nearest thing he's had to a classic Northug collapse-on-the-Alpe but he's well inside the time he needed, never really looked in any risk of losing the GC especially as that time gap is to Krüger who is no GC threat, so nothing like the kind of disaster his predecessor used to become known for on the climb (though in all honesty I think that reputation was exacerbated by the pursuit start in those days).
 
Last edited:
I was wrong about Pellegrino. What a race by him. But being this good today shows he deserves being up there in the GC tbf.
He was top 20 with all the Russians here 2 years ago and 8th 2 years ago against a deeper field. He's also half the size of the other sprinters.

Romano doing well is also no surprise, he beat Altimiras in the big Croce d'Aune uphill rollerskiing race this summer and did a huge training block with rollerskiing over Lombarde, Bonette, Izoard, Galibier, Agnel, Madeleine and multiple other climbs in one week.

(Our) Ryo finished 11th and Anger actually went full Ustiugov for his size, impressive.

Klaebo finished with his Swedish BF and Moseby, but I guess he didn't go all out once they dropped him.
 
Anger beating Klæbo here was not on my prediction unlike Krüger winning.

Lots of different countries in the top10, at least a w/kg test like this one offers a chance from the usual Norwegian domination. Great result for Vermeulen to finish second in the overall and Lapalus on the podium for the second year in a row.
 
Fjorden Ree was maybe the biggest disappointmen today. He’s not that big and should be a VO2-monster, but he had no chance and got beaten by a lot of presumably weaker skiers.

Also Desloges were weaker than expected, but 8th in the overall is still a great result for him.
 
Anger beating Klæbo here was not on my prediction unlike Krüger winning.

Lots of different countries in the top10, at least a w/kg test like this one offers a chance from the usual Norwegian domination. Great result for Vermeulen to finish second in the overall and Lapalus on the podium for the second year in a row.
This is probably why we've had a few mooted suggestions regarding neutral waxing as a way to try to improve parity in the sport. Possibly providing a choice of something like 4-5 different wax options, similar to the different tyre compounds in F1, so ski prep tactics remain a factor, but you don't hand a single team a colossal advantage due to tech budget.

I know at the same time you might also see some who aren't the biggest budget (obviously that's the Norwegians by far) be unhappy about that because they feel that if they read the conditions better than anybody else they deserve the rewards for that, the Finns in the Individual Start classic in Beijing would be a good example of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mayomaniac
Patrick immediately selling the women's race as Johaug vs. Laukli, Mike backing up that Sophia has had a "decent" Tour de Ski, which is... not how I'd characterise it. I'm hopeful that she may have sandbagged a few days for this since her GC ambition has long since gone awry and can pull out a single day performance like Krüger did, but I certainly wouldn't describe her Tour de Ski as being anything other than disappointing/underwhelming so far.

I mean, I'll cheer Sophia for the stage for sure, and she is likely to be given plenty of rope since she's no danger on GC at all, but I don't see anybody other than Therese winning this if I'm honest.

Edit: and now he's described Laukli as a complete unknown prior to the Alpe last year which is... wild.

Now we get an interview with Patricija Eiduka. Hilariously out-of-touch question asking her how her Tour has been after she's already said that obviously she has had a pretty torrid time out there and some of the worst physical shape of her life - she's come off zero previous racing and is clearly not fully fit. Nice to hear from her at least as missing the whole first month of the season is obviously a downer for her and I guess it's now all about Trondheim as sole goal for her.
 
Last edited:
Commentators can't figure out where Heidi Weng lost so much time. Most of it was yesterday.

I mean, her gap to the podium is obviously the time to Diggins, so I guess some of that is the invisible time in the Toblach sprint bonuses, but her time loss to Johaug and Slind up front is pretty self-explanatory...

On Diggins, "there's still quite a bit of wasted energy there"... it's like they've not seen her climb on this mountain before. Effective though it may be, it sure isn't a pretty climbing technique. She looks pretty safe there, as even if she may be dropping a bit, Andersson and Weng aren't gaining anything like as much as they need on her, and Niskanen is behind her.

Laukli seems to be a non-factor. Therese is doing Therese things.
 
Last edited: