- Apr 10, 2019
- 12,064
- 15,981
- 23,180
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,249
- 28,180
Patrick's mental arithmetic is spectacular. Firstly he awarded the yellow bib for the World Cup to Johaug because he forgot that Diggins would get GC points too. Then he told us that Diggins leads Johaug by 169 points, before then panicking and trying to work out whether Diggins would keep the yellow bib announcing it would take "a couple of minutes" to figure out that 300 - 270 is less than 169.
That's kind of where the entertainment has been in this race unfortunately. With Johaug just skiing away from the field, all the specialist climbers who've set some of the best times in the last few years either absent or in dreadful form (Laukli, Claudel, even those like Eiduka) and too much parity among the GC mix meaning they spent much of the climb all together until far too late for the GC gaps to really be in jeopardy, it didn't really offer much. No suspense for the win on either the stage or the GC, Sanness probably the only thing counting as an outsider to root for, no GC battles to speak of.
Kinda felt like the stage race embodiment of my problems with distance racing spectacle across the genders really - no action until the very end among the men, and a lack of suspense or jeopardy among the women.
That's kind of where the entertainment has been in this race unfortunately. With Johaug just skiing away from the field, all the specialist climbers who've set some of the best times in the last few years either absent or in dreadful form (Laukli, Claudel, even those like Eiduka) and too much parity among the GC mix meaning they spent much of the climb all together until far too late for the GC gaps to really be in jeopardy, it didn't really offer much. No suspense for the win on either the stage or the GC, Sanness probably the only thing counting as an outsider to root for, no GC battles to speak of.
Kinda felt like the stage race embodiment of my problems with distance racing spectacle across the genders really - no action until the very end among the men, and a lack of suspense or jeopardy among the women.
Last edited:
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
- Aug 31, 2019
- 3,444
- 6,215
- 14,180
Well, last year when Laukli won she lost more than 5 minutes to the men. Today Johaug lost 3:20, meaning that in direct comparison with the men even the group with Carl, Fink and Theodorsen did better than Laukli last year. I know one can’t compare directly like that, but i think it’s hard to argue that this is a specially weak women’s field.
- Aug 31, 2019
- 3,444
- 6,215
- 14,180
This Patrick guy sounds less intelligent than Patrick from SpongeBob
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
- Aug 31, 2019
- 3,444
- 6,215
- 14,180
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,249
- 28,180
This is the guy that I'm lumbered with on commentary, I'm afraid. He is obsessed with making everything shorter and more formulaic, and that mass start is always better, largely because he doesn't know how to read a timing screen and doesn't want to have to learn about more than about 10 athletes to talk about what's important to a race.
He's also even more biased than he is clueless; the largest part of why my general dislike for Jess Diggins has spiralled into what it has.
Now you see why it's essential to give time bonuses down to 30th place in the sprints
- Aug 31, 2019
- 3,444
- 6,215
- 14,180
Rip
It was still 42 doing the sprint, so I don’t think it shows a massive point tbfNow you see why it's essential to give time bonuses down to 30th place in the sprints
- Feb 21, 2019
- 4,337
- 6,937
- 16,180
Slind actually did really well all things considered but Johaug is unbeatable on this climb.
Norway had been nowhere in the last few seasons in the women's side apart from that season when Tiril Weng won the World Cup overall and now they put 6 skiers in the top12 of the Tour de Ski. Diggins should still be able to win the World Cup though.
Norway had been nowhere in the last few seasons in the women's side apart from that season when Tiril Weng won the World Cup overall and now they put 6 skiers in the top12 of the Tour de Ski. Diggins should still be able to win the World Cup though.
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
This is the guy that I'm lumbered with on commentary, I'm afraid. He is obsessed with making everything shorter and more formulaic, and that mass start is always better, largely because he doesn't know how to read a timing screen and doesn't want to have to learn about more than about 10 athletes to talk about what's important to a race.
He's also even more biased than he is clueless; the largest part of why my general dislike for Jess Diggins has spiralled into what it has.
Now you see why it's essential to give time bonuses down to 30th place in the sprints
Mine is that she acts a lot. The few races from the last two seasons I downloaded, I mostly muted. Eurosport clearly have an agenda/following instructions and/or they’re very unprofessional.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,249
- 28,180
And even in my own suggestion of what I would like to see for the bonuses, I gave bonuses for quarter finalists. It was more just a bit of a joke with only the one person outside of it. Would have been better if I'd not got in before your response about this actually being an improvement on last year with only 30 finishers so could have responded to that instead.
The anæmic startlists in the women's race have been a worry for some time, though.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,249
- 28,180
She actually finished the stage faster than she did to win it last year, although obviously weather/snow conditions are a factor year on year and her time from the 6,8km bonus sprint to the summit was significantly worse (19'58,5 this year as opposed to 17'22,8 last year). Johaug's time to the summit from the timing beacon at 6,8 was 17'57,2, but the overall time for the stage was 2 minutes faster.
Obviously Johaug wasn't there last year and Laukli wasn't in the running for a win or anything like that this year, so judging off their performances is an inexact science at best, but to take a couple more people who could be perhaps better guidance:
- Heidi Weng was trying to chase down Diggins for the Tour win last year and for the podium this year, forlorn chance though it may have been. Her 2024 time was 17'41,0 and 2025 was 18'24,5.
- Jess Diggins is also a good comparison point, as she was trying to protect the victory last year and the podium this year. She did have rather more security this year that meant a little less pressure on her, but she also wants to maximise points for the World Cup overall. Her 2024 time was 18'10,6 and her 2025 time 18'49,6.
- Kerttu Niskanen was also chasing the podium this year and trying both to protect it last year and to try to win as she was the closest immediate threat to Diggins going in. She clocked in at 18'00,6 last year and 18'48,2 this year.
- Behind, a lot of the non-GC high performers last year other than Laukli, ones like Claudel and Eiduka, were not there, while Sanness who was in that role this year was not there in 2024. However, Kristin Austgulen Fosnæs gives us a final consistent point, having been in the lower top 10 both years. Her time from 6,8 to the line last season was 18'23,8, and this year it was 19'15,4.
Hell, Theresa Stadlober was faster last year to come 13th (19'02,2) than she was to finish 8th this season (19'06 flat). Last year Delphine Claudel did 18 minutes flat and Eiduka 17'52,5 (she was poorly placed coming into the climb clearly as she finished 5th to Claudel's 3rd but set a better climbing time), both at around Johaug's time, and you'd have to be an even more biased Patricija Eiduka fan than me to think that she could have matched that time today.
As a result, it's clear that climbing times were slower this year, though whether that's the product of the conditions underfoot or just the infernal pace set by Johaug in the stadium is hard to tell. Given how close the discrepancies between a lot of those times are, however - Weng is 43,5" slower, Diggins 39,0", Niskanen 47,6" and Fosnæs 51,6" - I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest we are looking at a climbing time averaging around 45" slower naturally this season, at least for those who had reason to be fighting up at the front. That would still have put last year's peak form Laukli 2nd on the day, but she would have been a comfortable distance behind Johaug, and it did look like Therese had more to give had she needed to. This completely off-the-cuff and inexact theory-crafting suggests to me that Sophia was at least 1'30" off in terms of where her form or health is (~2'30 behind last year's time, with ~45" of that reflecting the different race looking at the performances of people who we ought to expect relatively stable performance from, then give or take a bit of fluctuation for on-the-day performance).
It also reflects especially well on Diggins, apparently performing injured and still doing the best performance relative to last year of those big names. While the heels may be causing her pain, the effect on her actual skiing doesn't appear to be detrimental as of yet.
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
I am not buying the heel injury. She’s trying to create excuses in case she doesn’t perform well and if she does ski well, it’ll be ‘wow, she did so well despite an injury, what bravery!’ Ebba Andersson was absolutely right. You can bet she’ll stat pad the rest of the way, as she did in 2021 and last season.
The conditions were different this season.
- Jul 10, 2014
- 14,987
- 25,976
- 28,180
- Apr 10, 2019
- 12,064
- 15,981
- 23,180
Yeah, but outside of the top 10 the field was just really weak, not to mention that the snow conditions and pacing on the flat make a big difference.
- Aug 31, 2019
- 3,444
- 6,215
- 14,180
Isn’t the field more or less always weak outside the top 10 in the women’s class?
Looking at the top 9 in the overall they are all established top athletes, even if for example Parmakoski is a bit away from her peak days. In a historic perspective I don’t think the field in this years Tour is that far away from the average.
How long before someone comes along to challenge TJs best times on this climb?
Diggins must be distantly related to Paula Radcliffe.
Diggins must be distantly related to Paula Radcliffe.
- Apr 7, 2011
- 4,885
- 439
- 16,580
I think Vermeulen coming in second should get a little bit more attention. Not an easy feat considering all the Drama that happened in Austria xc racing the last decades.
- Apr 10, 2019
- 12,064
- 15,981
- 23,180
Stadlober's mother being on top of the powerful Austrian Skiing federation + him living and training in Norway and giving interviews in Norwegian on Norwegian TV helps a lot, that's all I'm gonna say here...
- Apr 7, 2011
- 4,885
- 439
- 16,580
I know, he is not really an Austrian product, at least not since he has had is dramatic improvement. Still none could have imagined an Austrian coming in second a few years ago.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,061
- 15,249
- 28,180
- Apr 7, 2011
- 4,885
- 439
- 16,580
He is exactly the reason why i did not think an Austrian has any shot in the forseeable future. Look at biathlon, Austrian men are absolutely nowhere anymore.
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
- Jun 22, 2010
- 5,017
- 1,103
- 20,680
An Austrian (yes, I know his parents are Dutch) making the podium at a TDS after a big performance at Alpe Cermis…Oh lordy…
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 737
-
Question Comparing Pogacar's two historical seasons
- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 27
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 855
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 35K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 40K
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, September 21- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 942
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram