Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[jsem94]

I hope Golberg can recover well from this mentally, it's not a good feeling to let down your country or your teammate like this.

Emil did everything right but still couldn't win, Kriukov too strong. That was insane. No surprise in the women's though, Kikkan is the strongest in freestyle - no doubt.

 

[ToreBear]

I don't like Randall (the commentators absolutely adore her and even had a tantrum about her losing time in the classic pursuit in Oberhof because they felt she was the only potential challenger to Kowalczyk at the TdS even as Johaug punched through the whole field), and I don't like these events where being built like Scott Steiner on skis is just as important as being a skier.



This is much, much better than the normal sprint though. There might actually be enough competitors rather than luck of the draw being a major factor.

You don't like Randall because the commentators know nothing about xc skiing?

Thats not her fault.

Don't quite remember Steiner(german cyclist who looks like a body builder?), but I imagine your talking about muscles.

If your thinking about Randall, remember that the US pants are much tighter than the others. Wouldn't surprise me if Randall had even tighter pants by design than the other americans. After 10 years of being a sprinter, she is about as muscular as expected. So nothing strange there IMHO.

Also the sprints have only lately put more focus on stamina. For the men this is perhaps easier too see. For example Øystein Pettersen has lost a lot of Bulk the last years. According to the NRK dudes, Petukhov is also going through this process. Though he is a huge bear, so that might take time.

As for the sprints/sprint relay. I think we might have reached a limit. The NRK dudes mentioned that the Russians might change the Sochi course, especially now with Kiriukov being so strong this year.

I saw on SVT a story on the development on the sprints, and they were not happy. The Swedes have a lot of power in FIS, even though some Swedes like to think Norway is the one calling the shoots.

The story was followed with a studio talk where Per Elofsson agreed that the courses had become too tough.

IIRC he is on the FIS panel that decides the courses, so expect the courses to become easier in the future. Sorry.

You don't need top speed in a sprint relay if you're not doing the last leg.

You need top speed if the tactics change, and/or before the changover in order to stay out of trouble and/or give your partner a good start.

Also positioning and manouvering in the field is essential, and sprinters are usually much better at this. Brandsdal is extreme in this area.

Røthe seems to have the potential in all of these areas, but I have not seen him in these situations often enough to judge if he has the capability yet. My guess is he will improve a lot in all these areas in the future. But as of now I would not put him on a first leg ahead of all the other alternatives. Remember he is still young.

The coach said Golberg was very nervous. Had he been more experienced he might have handled it better. And he might also have been able to notice that this was not his day and let someone else take over.

Probably the coaches will put more weight on experience in the future.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You don't like Randall because the commentators know nothing about xc skiing?

Thats not her fault.

Don't quite remember Steiner(german cyclist who looks like a body builder?), but I imagine your talking about muscles.

No, that's Forstemann.

Scott Steiner was a pro wrestler in the 90s who went from being "oversized pituitary freak" to "so roided out he could barely move". I just thought of him at the time because of the references to Golberg (as another guy at the time was Goldberg), and he's one of the most obvious examples of a guy with far more muscle packed onto a frame than it was built to take.

 

[ToreBear]

I hope Golberg can recover well from this mentally, it's not a good feeling to let down your country or your teammate like this.

Emil did everything right but still couldn't win, Kriukov too strong. That was insane. No surprise in the women's though, Kikkan is the strongest in freestyle - no doubt.

Yeah I think the team will take care of him. The coaches seem to be emphasizing that they should have been better in controlling his nervousness. Northug I think is also good in this area(despite his media image), They will build him back up. Also, with Northug not having to ski the final he can race the 15k, so it's not all bad for him either.

Also with the great start of the championships, this does not hurt as much as if this was one of the best chances to medal.

I'm still flying after yesterday. And the curse of jumping after Wirkola has finally been broken. The last time Norway took gold in the normal hill in the world championships was in 1966! Bardal finally did it again in 2013!

I really hoped Sweden would get gold for the men. It would have been great for Emil, but it would also help the Swedes get over a month of dissapointments.

Though had Emil been a bit cooler he might have been able to stay behind Kiriukov and use him as a slingshot. Put thats with 20/20 hindsight.

 

[ToreBear]

No, that's Forstemann.

Scott Steiner was a pro wrestler in the 90s who went from being "oversized pituitary freak" to "so roided out he could barely move". I just thought of him at the time because of the references to Golberg (as another guy at the time was Goldberg), and he's one of the most obvious examples of a guy with far more muscle packed onto a frame than it was built to take.

Ah thanks! I'm googling now.

 

[ToreBear]

hrmph. Looks like Moan should have tried to follow behind Chapui and take him on the final stretch. Well, Silver is good too. Just does'nt feel like it right now.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Good finale, but I was surprised Moan and Lamy Chappuis let it stay as a group of 5 for so long. Moan's skiing was fairly mediocre in the week, so it made sense that he should be the one to attack as Lamy Chappuis ought to have the measure of him in the sprint. By attacking there he gave a good chance to get gold, and guaranteed at least silver.

Praise be to Allah, they've managed to finish a race at Bansko, after twice cancelling the men's sprint mid-competition (both times Benedikt Doll completing his race and being in a medal position before the fog landed), and cancelling the women's sprint outright yesterday. The women's sprint took place today, and was won in a tense finish by Irina Starykh, by less than half a second over Juliya Dzhyma (both being semi-regular World Cup competitors). Monika Hojnisz (fresh from a medal in the World Championships) made the podium despite a miss, just a few seconds off them.

4th and 5th were the most interesting though. 4th was Mariya Panfilova, now representing Ukraine, who despite 2 penalties set the fastest course time and was only a few seconds off the podium. This is interesting because a couple of months ago, while she was still a Russian, she finished nearly 3 minutes down in an Individual on Larisa Kuznetsova at the Izhevsk rifle despite only one penalty; today Kuznetsova shot 10/10 but finished nearly 2 minutes behind Panfilova. Panfilova no-showed the IBU Cup a few weeks ago and changed nationality, and this has had an obvious effect. 5th was Franziska Preuß, the young German - so young she could still be entering Youth events - who shoots very quickly and usually accurately but for the moment pace is lacking on final laps, but as she gets stronger this will surely change.

 

[ToreBear]

Good finale, but I was surprised Moan and Lamy Chappuis let it stay as a group of 5 for so long. Moan's skiing was fairly mediocre in the week, so it made sense that he should be the one to attack as Lamy Chappuis ought to have the measure of him in the sprint. By attacking there he gave a good chance to get gold, and guaranteed at least silver.

Praise be to Allah, they've managed to finish a race at Bansko, after twice cancelling the men's sprint mid-competition (both times Benedikt Doll completing his race and being in a medal position before the fog landed), and cancelling the women's sprint outright yesterday. The women's sprint took place today, and was won in a tense finish by Irina Starykh, by less than half a second over Juliya Dzhyma (both being semi-regular World Cup competitors). Monika Hojnisz (fresh from a medal in the World Championships) made the podium despite a miss, just a few seconds off them.

4th and 5th were the most interesting though. 4th was Mariya Panfilova, now representing Ukraine, who despite 2 penalties set the fastest course time and was only a few seconds off the podium. This is interesting because a couple of months ago, while she was still a Russian, she finished nearly 3 minutes down in an Individual on Larisa Kuznetsova at the Izhevsk rifle despite only one penalty; today Kuznetsova shot 10/10 but finished nearly 2 minutes behind Panfilova. Panfilova no-showed the IBU Cup a few weeks ago and changed nationality, and this has had an obvious effect. 5th was Franziska Preuß, the young German - so young she could still be entering Youth events - who shoots very quickly and usually accurately but for the moment pace is lacking on final laps, but as she gets stronger this will surely change.

Moan had some ski problems the last time. I think he had new skis and the glide went caput a little bit into the race. He has also recently had the flu and lost 7 days of training. So it could be a mix of form and skis. But my guess is that it was more the skis that were the problem.

Moan has been mostly the best skier and finnisher in combined. But he has had problems with his jumping. This last year he has become a better jumper, but perhaps his skiing and finishing has suffered?

Lamy Chapuis is the other way around. His juping was his strongest area, but now his skiing and finishing has improved. But he is not jumping that good anymore.

Normally I would judge Moan stronger, but Chapui marginally better at short sprints.


As for Panfilova. It could be she had a bad day the last time and Kuznetsova a good one. And now it has reversed.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Nice interview with gold medalist, Jessica Diggins.

http://www.svtplay.se/klipp/603004/jonas-karlsson-moter-jessica-diggins

 

[ophene]

You need top speed if the tactics change, and/or before the changover in order to stay out of trouble and/or give your partner a good start.

Also positioning and manouvering in the field is essential, and sprinters are usually much better at this. Brandsdal is extreme in this area.

Røthe seems to have the potential in all of these areas, but I have not seen him in these situations often enough to judge if he has the capability yet. My guess is he will improve a lot in all these areas in the future. But as of now I would not put him on a first leg ahead of all the other alternatives. Remember he is still young.

The coach said Golberg was very nervous. Had he been more experienced he might have handled it better. And he might also have been able to notice that this was not his day and let someone else take over.

Probably the coaches will put more weight on experience in the future.

The best choice would have been Finn Hågen Krogh. He has good speed and positioning skills ( he won the sprint in TDS), and is also among Norways top distance skaters.

He should also have been selected to the skiathlon, Rønning being picked over him is a disgrace.

 

[Skinørd]

Nice interview with gold medalist, Jessica Diggins.

http://www.svtplay.se/klipp/603004/jonas-karlsson-moter-jessica-diggins

Hi guys! new to the forum

If someone could upload that clip to youtube, I would be very happy and grateful.
Please Cant see it here in Norway.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ToreBear]

The best choice would have been Finn Hågen Krogh. He has good speed and positioning skills ( he won the sprint in TDS), and is also among Norways top distance skaters.

He should also have been selected to the skiathlon, Rønning being picked over him is a disgrace.

I don't think Krogh has much experience in the sprint relay. Also he has been very unstable in his performances.

In hindsight one would of course pick someone other than Golberg. But without that, I think Golberg was the best pick. Same could be said for Røthe, he also has no experience IIRC in the sprint relay. So who knows what could happen.

I think Rønning was picked because he needed a race to prepare him for the relay and the 50k. Also Rønning came in at 5th while Krogh had an off day and came in 59th in the skiathlon in NM. Krogh was 2nd in the 15k free a few days earlier. So you can't quite be sure of what kind of day he will have until afterwards.

Also Rønning I think lost his ski early in the skiathlon so that put a damper on his classic performance.

 

[ToreBear]

Hi guys! new to the forum

If someone could upload that clip to youtube, I would be very happy and grateful.
Please Cant see it here in Norway.

Thanks in advance.

Greetings fellow Norwegian. I also can't see this super secret interview with Diggins. Though I think I saw it when it was on SVT in the fall.

Basicly it's Jonas Karlsson at SVT taking a trip to Minnesota to visit Diggins last summer. Nice interview IIRC.

She is a great talent that will improve a lot as her technique improves.

 

[maltiv]

I don't think Krogh has much experience in the sprint relay. Also he has been very unstable in his performances.

In hindsight one would of course pick someone other than Golberg. But without that, I think Golberg was the best pick. Same could be said for Røthe, he also has no experience IIRC in the sprint relay. So who knows what could happen.

I think Rønning was picked because he needed a race to prepare him for the relay and the 50k. Also Rønning came in at 5th while Krogh had an off day and came in 59th in the skiathlon in NM. Krogh was 2nd in the 15k free a few days earlier. So you can't quite be sure of what kind of day he will have until afterwards.

Also Rønning I think lost his ski early in the skiathlon so that put a damper on his classic performance.

Imo it's always better to pick an all-rounder for the 1st leg in a sprint relay. By picking someone like Røthe you can lose 5-6 seconds max (simply by him not being able to follow the acceleration in the finale). By picking a sprinter you risk him cracking completely and losing 20 seconds or more.

 

[ToreBear]

Ok Northug's glide on the skiathlon might have an explanation:
http://www.vg.no/sport/ski/vm/2013/artikkel.php?artid=10107825

Basically Northug choose the wrong pair of skis. He choose the pair that was best uphill. Their downhill qualities were not that good.


I also found out about Moan's sprint in the combined relay. Apparently he had scoped out the right side of the inrun to the finishing line because it was the one that looked to have been used most, and would have the least new snow on the course.

When he was on the way down towards the finishing line he got distracted when he saw his coach cheering, and he forgot to pick the right side. He choose the left. Having watched the replay it appears he just looses his strength 15 meters from the line. So maybe he might have held onto gold had he gone right instead of left. Or maybe not. We will never know.

I also checked out Emils sprint finish, and I think Sweden should be happy with the silver. Tactically he could have tried to place himself behind Kiriukov, but he could also have been locked in and ended up in 4th. So I think he made the right choice.

 

[ToreBear]

Imo it's always better to pick an all-rounder for the 1st leg in a sprint relay. By picking someone like Røthe you can lose 5-6 seconds max (simply by him not being able to follow the acceleration in the finale). By picking a sprinter you risk him cracking completely and losing 20 seconds or more.

The thing is that Golberg is not just a sprinter.
http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/613.html?sector=CC&competitorid=137887&type=result

Check out the 15k free in Kuusamo:
http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=CC&competitorid=137887&raceid=20740

14 Golberg
15 Poltaranin
16 Heikinnen
17 Belov
18 Harvey

He has the capacity, and has also shown his strength on sprint relays before.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Hi guys! new to the forum

If someone could upload that clip to youtube, I would be very happy and grateful.
Please Cant see it here in Norway.

Thanks in advance.

Really? It's not supposed to be geo-restricted.

"Kan ses i hela världen" - Can be viewed worldwide.

Good job, SVT!

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Sweden has but one medal in the last 26 individual, distance WCH-races. Time for Kalla to improve those stats tomorrow. No way is she missing the podium in her niche discipline.

 

[Skinørd]

Really? It's not supposed to be geo-restricted.

"Kan ses i hela världen" - Can be viewed worldwide.

Good job, SVT!

But it is. No chance to view it, even when I try swedish proxy.

 

[Skinørd]

Greetings fellow Norwegian. I also can't see this super secret interview with Diggins. Though I think I saw it when it was on SVT in the fall.

Basicly it's Jonas Karlsson at SVT taking a trip to Minnesota to visit Diggins last summer. Nice interview IIRC.

She is a great talent that will improve a lot as her technique improves.

Hi
Saw the last part when it aired myself, but really want to see it again and the whole

Yes theres much potential in this girl, but she needs to strengthen her core so she can be more stable in her technique and get more from the power she puts out. Believes she has a very strong mentality to keep going no matter what, which is very useful in this sport

 

[ToreBear]

Sweden has but one medal in the last 26 individual, distance WCH-races. Time for Kalla to improve those stats tomorrow. No way is she missing the podium in her niche discipline.

I agree. She has the capacity, but she starts before all the Norwegians, and they can use her lap times. So it will be difficult.

Startlist: http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=CC&raceid=20757



Anyway Justyna is sitting this one out. I was very impressed that she kept up with the Norwegians in the skating for 7,5km in the skiathlon, but with her technique problems(and bad knee?) I don't think she had a chance for gold. Medal perhaps, but I kind of doubt it. So smart choice by her IMHO. Also perhaps she peaked too early. She was a lot better than I thought she would be in Davos in skating.

So who are the favorites:
Bjørgen obviously
Johaug
Kalla

Potential medal vinners:
Steira
Weng
Jacobsen
Lahtenmaki
Wiken
Randall
Tchekaleva


Ones to watch that might be in the mix:
Stephen
Diggins
Gøssner
Zeller
Makerainen
+ the others that I forgot to think about.


Judging from previous results it could be a 123 for Norway. But a bad ski day could happen. And someone could have a really bad day(like Golberg). Or others could have a really good day.

It will also be exciting to find out how good the biathletes are. If they can find a good back to follow and help them with pacing they might be really good. I think they will be within top 10 at max. I will be very surprised if either make top 5. Stunned if either gets a medal. And shaken to the core if either wins.

 

[ToreBear]

Hi
Saw the last part when it aired myself, but really want to see it again and the whole

Yes theres much potential in this girl, but she needs to strengthen her core so she can be more stable in her technique and get more from the power she puts out. Believes she has a very strong mentality to keep going no matter what, which is very useful in this sport

Yep that's what I've been thinking too.

I wonder the way she could keep going up that hill when she lost that pole in the sprint relay without it seeming to affect her. Could it perhaps have been due to her unpolished technique? Those with better technique I would guess would use their arms more, and loosing a pole would really be difficult for them. But luckily for team USA she still is not that good yet, so she could continue without to many problems.

It's just a theory though. And I'm no expert, just a couch potato.

 

[jsem94]

I hope Gössner does something brilliant tomorrow.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If she's back to her January form, perhaps. At the Biathlon Worlds, however, she was clearly not at her best. I hope that at least after all the will she-won't she back and forth that she does herself justice at least.

 

[python]

so what exactly happened to paal golberg ?

i did not see the semifinals but i read what i could and still don't understand...did he fall, have a mental breakdown, a physical trauma (muscle, knee?), health issues (cold?).

the reason i am particularly interested is that i found some post race comments by the winners curious.

kriukov said that when he saw golberg in action in one of the legs, he realized that paal was going at his limit when the pace was less than red hot. he than communicated to the 'bear' to raise the pace at some point which the bear did dropping paal ? i simply find that for an athlete of paals talent, to give northug a 20 second deficit has to have some better explanation ?