Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BigCoward]

The talent pool thing in Biathlon is a bit overrated, if you look at the small amout of people who practice it in the youth ranks in Italy and even France. In Italy (and in many other countries) it's just kids who grow up in the villages near a Biathlon center, not exactly a huge talent pool...

That's what I imagined. The best way would be to spend all the money on one world class facility as close to a major population hub as possible. And it would need to be a 15-20 year project.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Well that is true but still that small talent pool is huge compared to the amount of kids who seriously train XC skiing/biathlon in GB currently.

I agree and also considering the lack of snow, it would take a long time and lots of effort.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I agree and also considering the lack of snow, it would take a long time and lots of effort.

Hence why I say the best bet in Britain's position is long track speed skating. They could easily construct a long track rink in or near a population centre, and given there are already plenty of rinks to service the country's figure skating scene and ice hockey leagues, it would be possible to isolate skating talent from short track events for kids and teenagers at those, and encourage them to move to long track, it'd even be possible to have people train on short tracks at rinks near home and then meet up for national events on the full size rink to encourage competition and drive up the level.

Of course the Dutch domination is a difficult thing to compete against, but it's not like it'd be any harder to break through than the Norwegian dominance in XC.

 

[Discgear]

A lot of conspiracy theories about Norways role in this s***show. It is the the jury, not Norway who took this stupid decision to reduce the length of the race. They had other options available. Even as a Norwegian I don't know what the Norwegian team thought or did in this matter. For sure Kruger has prepared for a 50km. The only norwegian who has explicitly said he was happy about the decision was Sjur Røthe and I have no idea why. It makes no sense why he would think so other than not being in his best form.

Well, according to this article it was a Norwegian delegation who wanted the race shortened. They even pushed for the race being shortened to 15k.
https://www.sports.ru/skiing/110698...sili-sokratit-distancziyu-marafona-do-15.html
And as Bavarianrider said, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet wrote similar things.

And about your claim that Røthe was the only Norwegian who explicity said he was happy about the decision:
As said before in the thread, Klaebo openly said the he would have watched the race on TV if it was 50k, but decided to give it a go when it was shortened. At least in Norwegian media, it was a lot of concerns with Krüger and how he would have stamina for the 50k returning from Covid. Especially when looking on how affected Riiber was in the Nordic combined events. And btw, even Holund expressed after the race, that considering how tough it was, he was happy with the changed distance. So who's left among the Norwegians who weren't happy? Where is the conspiracy theory?
But I do agree, this was a complete s**t show, and the evidence points strongly to who the driving force was.

 

[Bavarianrider]

So Finnland accuses Germans of cheating with Fluorid waxes.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So Finnland accuses Germans of cheating with Fluorid waxes.

It's not cheating if it isn't banned at the Olympics...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Hence why I say the best bet in Britain's position is long track speed skating. They could easily construct a long track rink in or near a population centre, and given there are already plenty of rinks to service the country's figure skating scene and ice hockey leagues, it would be possible to isolate skating talent from short track events for kids and teenagers at those, and encourage them to move to long track, it'd even be possible to have people train on short tracks at rinks near home and then meet up for national events on the full size rink to encourage competition and drive up the level.

Of course the Dutch domination is a difficult thing to compete against, but it's not like it'd be any harder to break through than the Norwegian dominance in XC.

I'm always surprised that a country like Denmark isn't better at speed skating.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I'm always surprised that a country like Denmark isn't better at speed skating.

We don't have the facilities. Our best speed skaters travel 200-300 days a year in order to be competitive, and when they are back home they can only do cycling or inline skating in order to stay in shape. After the results in Beijing were worse than hoped/expected they might receive less funding during the next Olympic cycle, which won't make it easier for them.

 

[Discgear]

It's not cheating if it isn't banned at the Olympics...

You're absolutely right in this. However, a gentlemen's agreement was signed last year between the participating nations to not use high fluor content waxes in FIS-competitions. (Maybe FIS-competitions vs Olympics leaves room for interpretation... )
In Finland they do usually have a more practical and relaxed attitude towards regulations. (I know, I have participated in numerous EU-projects with Nordic colleagues). Sweden is usually very particular with regulations and are often quite a pain in the a*** when pointing the rules out for everyone else. Norwegians tends to have a very similar attitude towards others as the swedes, but often also somewhat shameless in bending things when it suits their own needs. Danes are tough negotiators and often takes the lead. Also mostly playing by the book.

 

[Mayomaniac]

We don't have the facilities. Our best speed skaters travel 200-300 days a year in order to be competitive, and when they are back home they can only do cycling or inline skating in order to stay in shape. After the results in Beijing were worse than hoped/expected they might receive less funding during the next Olympic cycle, which won't make it easier for them.

Thanks for the info. It always surprises me how much of a non-factor you are in winter sports.

 

[Mayomaniac]

You're absolutely right in this. However, a gentlemen's agreement was signed last year between the participating nations to not use high fluor content waxes in FIS-competitions. (Maybe FIS-competitions vs Olympics leaves room for interpretation... )
In Finland they do usually have a more practical and relaxed attitude towards regulations. (I know, I have participated in numerous EU-projects with Nordic colleagues). Sweden is usually very particular with regulations and are often quite a pain in the a*** when pointing the rules out for everyone else. Norwegians tends to have a very similar attitude towards others as the swedes, but often also somewhat shameless in bending things when it suits their own needs. Danes are tough negotiators and often takes the lead. Also mostly playing by the book.

Yeah, if it happened you can call it unethical, but not cheating.

 

[Norbea]

I'm not sure the snow and the temperature would make fluor wax any great advantage. It definitely would if the temperature had been warmer and the snow softer.

 

[Norbea]

Klaebo openly said the he would have watched the race on TV if it was 50k, but decided to give it a go when it was shortened. At least in Norwegian media, it was a lot of concerns with Krüger and how he would have stamina for the 50k returning from Covid. Especially when looking on how affected Riiber was in the Nordic combined events. And btw, even Holund expressed after the race, that considering how tough it was, he was happy with the changed distance. So who's left among the Norwegians who weren't happy? Where is the conspiracy theory?

Klæbo was sick and couldn't even finish 28km. Holund being happy the race wasn't longer after a disappointing performance doesn't say anything about what he thought before the race. Concerns about Krüger´s form was if he could be competitive at any distance at all.

Conspiracy theory? A lot of it from the Russian camp. And it has become a "tradition" to blame the Norwegians for almost anything as long as some Norwegian could benefit from it. (Norway have tons of skiers in different disciplines with different skills, so there is always someone to point the finger at). Bolshunov coach, Jurij Brodavko blames Norway for putting pressure on the jury, but doesn't mention that Jelena Velbä would have equal opportunity to "pressure" the jury as any Norwegian delegate. FIS denies that their decision was based on any advice given. It only had to do with weather conditions. The alternative would have been no race at all.

 

[Discgear]

Klæbo was sick and couldn't even finish 28km.

So your argument is that he wasn't happy with the decision to shorten the race? That he would have preferred watching it on TV?

Concerns about Krüger´s form was if he could be competitive at any distance at all.

But he wasn't even considered to race anything but the 50 k. What is your argument?
You are claiming it is a lie that the Norwegian team was pushing an argument to shorten the race? Where are your sources. You have been given sources that is claiming the opposite.

 

[Norbea]

So your argument is that he wasn't happy with the decision to shorten the race? That he would have preferred watching it on TV?

He wouldn't have competed if it had been 50. When it was 28 he was willing to give it a shot. Making the argument that Norway somehow made FIS shorten the distance so that Klæbo could win doesn't make much sense. He hardly believed he could race at all. Norways best chance in the 50km was all the time whoever was in best form of Kruger, Holund or Røthe. A shorter race with that in mind would only benefit Bolshunov.

 

[search]

It's not cheating if it isn't banned at the Olympics...

The Finnish article states it was banned right before the start of the Olympics - although they don't seem to be sure if that means for all events

Raju väite kulisseista: Saksa sai naisten sensaatiomitalit huijaamalla – hiihtäjät vaikenevat

Saksan naishiihtäjien yllättävän luja vauhti on nostanut tikunnokkaan kielletyt C8-fluorivoiteet.

www.iltalehti.fi

Huijasivatko saksalaiset? Lajipomolta suorat sanat

Mahdollinen fluorihuijaus on Pekingin olympialaisten kuuma peruna. Hiihtopomo ei usko huhuja.

www.iltalehti.fi

I'm not sure the snow and the temperature would make fluor wax any great advantage. It definitely would if the temperature had been warmer and the snow softer.

and yeah, this is also mentioned in the article. The Finnish team brought C8 as well , but (according to them) didn't use it as other products were working better.

They also say that the day of the relay was the "wettest" one, though, with quite a bit of real snow even. So it would have been useful that day

 

[Discgear]

Making the argument that Norway somehow made FIS shorten the distance so that Klæbo could win doesn't make much sense.

Come on, you're making straw man arguments. Where in my original post did I push that specific narrative? Once again, where are your sources that it wasn't the Norwegian team pushing for shortening the race? You've been given sources claiming it was Norwegian team delegates who made arguments for the race to be shortened even to 15k.

Well, according to this article it was a Norwegian delegation who wanted the race shortened. They even pushed for the race being shortened to 15k.
https://www.sports.ru/skiing/110698...sili-sokratit-distancziyu-marafona-do-15.html
And as Bavarianrider said, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet wrote similar things.

And about your claim that Røthe was the only Norwegian who explicity said he was happy about the decision:
As said before in the thread, Klaebo openly said the he would have watched the race on TV if it was 50k, but decided to give it a go when it was shortened. At least in Norwegian media, it was a lot of concerns with Krüger and how he would have stamina for the 50k returning from Covid. Especially when looking on how affected Riiber was in the Nordic combined events. And btw, even Holund expressed after the race, that considering how tough it was, he was happy with the changed distance. So who's left among the Norwegians who weren't happy? Where is the conspiracy theory?
But I do agree, this was a complete s**t show, and the evidence points strongly to who the driving force was.

 

[Norbea]

Come on, you're making straw man arguments. Where in my original post did I push that specific narrative? Once again, where are your sources that it wasn't the Norwegian team pushing for shortening the race? You've been given sources claiming it was Norwegian team delegates who made arguments for the race to be shortened even to 15k.

Jurij Borodovko uses exactly that argument. "He (Klæbo) is one of the favorites. And that is why they (the Norwegians) managed to push through a reduction of the distance."

Kæbo: "I am fine, but my stomach is worse. I think I would have regretted it if I didn't try when it went from 50 to 30. I took a chance. It didn't work at all."

Piere Mignerey (FIS): "It was definitely not a result of Norwegian pressure or pressure from anyone else. We don't need pressure from anyone to look at the weather and react on the situation."

 

[Norbea]

I have no doubts that there are a lot of stupidity in the Norwegian team leadership. Espen Bjervik probably won't survive past April in his job. Regardless of a successful olympics in general. The XC-team messed up in preparations and in handling the covid situation. Bjervik has also said he agreed with the jury decision to shorten the distance. But he laughs of the idea that Norwegian pushed the jury to make that decision. According to what he indicates in the above mentioned article the options given was to shorten the distance or to cancel.

 

[Discgear]

Piere Mignerey (FIS): "It was definitely not a result of Norwegian pressure or pressure from anyone else. We don't need pressure from anyone to look at the weather and react on the situation."

Of course he said. He wouldn't have the work as race director anymore if he admitted that he bent under pressure from specific nations. So far I have seen only negative comments from leaders, skiers and media outside Norway about the decision. Even the finn who got a frostbitten pen*s for the 2nd time in his career didn't support the decision.

 

[Silhouette]

Fossesholm is taking the rest of the season off . She's till struggling with the after effects of overtraining. At least she had one good race in the Olympics (the relay).

 

[Mayomaniac]

That was one tough Race. That is how it should be. Johaug untouchable, obviously. I wonder If she will go ob after this season.

That wouldn't surprise me. Now she has the individual Gold at the Olympics and nothing more to prove. Recently she also got engaged, so she might want to start a family.

 

[search]

Wang with another strong performance in the sprint quali in Lahti today (7th). On the easy side of the draw now, he may even be a contender to make it into the finale.

 

[BigCoward]

Anyway, just caught up with the sprints properly from yesterday. Has there ever been a more dominant in one final/couldn't be closer in the other final result?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Diggins has a lot of external rotation with her left arm/shoulder, her skiing looks even more uneven than usual.