Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Apr 10, 2019
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True, regarding Moch. I think he is a lot better then has shown yet though. Guess the 20k i Davos should suit him.

For Norway I agree, but you could add Moseby to that list aswell and they have a lot of more talents that will be svept up by the regional or private teams which mean they will continue a few years and might progress to the World Cup team. Ree wasn’t even top 10 in Norway last year as a junior so his progression is great. First time I heard of him was when he was very close of winning a national race in Sweden (One realize the quality is low but all top skiers losing to a Norwegian that couldn’t even top in juniors race would be like the last nail in the coffin).
Oh yeah, Moch clearly needs harder tracks to show his true potential.

I'm happy that the whole city sprint in Milan died an early death, but racing in Livigno and only having a sprint and a team sprint is kinda meh. Maybe we can get races there and in Toblach another year, since those are pretty much the main areas in Italy where other nations come to train during the winter (and the summer).
 
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Oh yeah, Moch clearly needs harder tracks to show his true potential.

I'm happy that the whole city sprint in Milan died an early death, but racing in Livigno and only having a sprint and a team sprint is kinda meh. Maybe we can get races there and in Toblach another year, since those are pretty much the main areas in Italy where other nations come to train during the winter (and the summer).
Do you think it would be possible to compete in Livingo in December? FIS really need to fix the calendar, those December races in Scandinavia are there because they can guarantee snow but are always very depressing. It is held in very densely populated areas with almost no audience and sunlight. Racing in Scandinavia should be Oslo, Falun and Lahtis during February or March, Ulricehamn and Trondheim are also good places.
 
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Do you think it would be possible to compete in Livingo in December? FIS really need to fix the calendar, those December races in Scandinavia are there because they can guarantee snow but are always very depressing. It is held in very densely populated areas with almost no audience and sunlight. Racing in Scandinavia should be Oslo, Falun and Lahtis during February or March, Ulricehamn and Trondheim are also good places.
I mean, Livigno is above 1,800m of altitude, the tracks are probably even higher. The average high for November is usually already below zero (I'm talking about recent data since 2009), so producing enough snow shouldn't be a problem and with it being so high up in the mountains you should usually have natural snow at that time of the year. With the extra altitude you could probably pull that one off a few weeks before Toblach.
Otherwise late season could also work, the temperatures stay lower at that altitude.
 

KZD

Feb 21, 2019
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Marte Olsbu will only return to the World Cup after the Christmas/New Year Eve. Last year there was a lot of talk about a crisis on the Norwegian cross-country women's team but I think the real crisis is in their women's biathlon team.
 
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Didi Nöckler will be back at the Beitostoelen race after winning the Alpen Cup classic race this weekend, it's gonna be his 15th season racing in the World Cup. Frankly I was surprised that they didn't select him for the classic race in Lillehammer. He did actually well last season in the Holmenkollen 50km by finishing 15th after having to train all season outside of the national teams main training group.
Funny that even Zorzi has been critical of the too easy loop in Lillehammer, I guess being a coach for Andorra and your main athlete performing better on harder tracks helps a lot.
 
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Linn Svahn will make her comeback Friday in a national race in Sweden, The field is weak but I guess we still will have a good idea of her level, if she performs good she will most likely compete in Davos.
Didi Nöckler will be back at the Beitostoelen race after winning the Alpen Cup classic race this weekend, it's gonna be his 15th season racing in the World Cup. Frankly I was surprised that they didn't select him for the classic race in Lillehammer. He did actually well last season in the Holmenkollen 50km by finishing 15th after having to train all season outside of the national teams main training group.
Funny that even Zorzi has been critical of the too easy loop in Lillehammer, I guess being a coach for Andorra and your main athlete performing better on harder tracks helps a lot.
Thats great, didn’t know he still was active. Aged 34 but that’s young for Italian standards I pressume. Actually quite decent results last week. Kardin showed good form in Bruksvallarna and Hoel is just a good classics skier.
 
Apr 10, 2019
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Linn Svahn will make her comeback Friday in a national race in Sweden, The field is weak but I guess we still will have a good idea of her level, if she performs good she will most likely compete in Davos.

Thats great, didn’t know he still was active. Aged 34 but that’s young for Italian standards I pressume. Actually quite decent results last week. Kardin showed good form in Bruksvallarna and Hoel is just a good classics skier.
Yeah, no idea what's going on with the Italians overall. Shrinking talent pool, but in the junior ranks their results are actually good, but afterwards we loose them.

The internal politics of the federation are also a bit odd, Nöckler often gets the short stick and with the lack of talent at the top you'd assume that a world class roller skier like Tanel (who is a lightweight for a skier, only 63kg heavy) would get a chance. I know that roller skating isn't exactly the same, but the guy is really light and last year he beat a world class skiesr like Spitsov and Chervotkin in the skating race at the roller ski WC. Given the fact that he's a light guy with a big engine and not just a pure powerhouse his roller ski results should translate better to xc skiing. I might be biased because I know the guy, but still.

Not to mention that Italy lacks a skating specialist ever since Clara stopped his career.
 
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Yeah, no idea what's going on with the Italians overall. Shrinking talent pool, but in the junior ranks their results are actually good, but afterwards we loose them.

The internal politics of the federation are also a bit odd, Nöckler often gets the short stick and with the lack of talent at the top you'd assume that a world class roller skier like Tanel (who is a lightweight for a skier, only 63kg heavy) would get a chance. I know that roller skating isn't exactly the same, but the guy is really light and last year he beat a world class skiesr like Spitsov and Chervotkin in the skating race at the roller ski WC. Given the fact that he's a light guy with a big engine and not just a pure powerhouse his roller ski results should translate better to xc skiing. I might be biased because I know the guy, but still.

Not to mention that Italy lacks a skating specialist ever since Clara stopped his career.
I checked Tanel on FIS app and it seems he almost never races on snow. A popular race here and there but no Alpen Cup or similar. (I know all the races are not listed on FIS, only the official ones with FIS points on offer).

I guess funding is big problem for all nations outside Scandinavia and Russia. Even if they have success at Juniors and U23 much dedicated training is required to become a top athlete. And that costs big money, and then you need a waxing team etc. FIS really need to do something here because at same time Norwegian (I many cases state owned) companies are pouring money into Norwegian CC so they will be even more dominant.
 
Apr 10, 2019
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I checked Tanel on FIS app and it seems he almost never races on snow. A popular race here and there but no Alpen Cup or similar. (I know all the races are not listed on FIS, only the official ones with FIS points on offer).

I guess funding is big problem for all nations outside Scandinavia and Russia. Even if they have success at Juniors and U23 much dedicated training is required to become a top athlete. And that costs big money, and then you need a waxing team etc. FIS really need to do something here because at same time Norwegian (I many cases state owned) companies are pouring money into Norwegian CC so they will be even more dominant.
During the winter Tanel works a regular job as a cop patroling on the skiing slopes of a ski resort near my hometown. He trains after work when it's already dark with headlights on and mainly just races popular races. He tried to make it on the NT at a younger age, but was rejected. The whole team selection is a bit of a mess, you have all those different sports groups from the various branches of the military and the police competing against eachother and who gets selected is often down to politics/what sports group gets preferred treatment at the time and somehow finding a balance between those various sports group.

Yeah, I really agree with you on the monetary aspect and I hope that FIS actually manages to impose neutral waxing teams like they have recently discussed, that would already help a lot.
 
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Lampič already in the WC team. Hardly a surprise.
I read Lampic will try to race as many races as possible. So when the IBU Cup and World Cup collide she’ll do IBU. Of course this might change if she starts to qualify for WC pursuits and masstarts.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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Lampič already in the WC team. Hardly a surprise.
Likely just needed to be on the IBU Cup to gain enough qualification points to make the World Cup. It's not like Slovenia has copious better options - not like when Herrmann, Nilsson or Sachenbacher-Stehle switched and their teams kept them on the IBU for a while (Herrmann came up to the World Cup quickly, but then returned to the IBU Cup after Christmas for most of the rest of her debut season). IBU like to use a points in trimesters basis for qualification, a few years ago Synnøve Solemdal had to drop to the IBU Cup to earn enough points to make it back to the World Cup, so debutantes and people who called last season to a halt after the Olympics were needing to start at Idre to get some qualification points back and race the World Cup. You can also see a few others who started on the IBU Cup, like Gandler, Merkushyna and Avvakumova.

Plus of course, she'll bring more interest, whether that be justified by results or not, than the Klemenčič sisters who were already on the World Cup, just by being a high profile convert from XC with name value, even though it's worth noting that Polona, the elder of the two, had a career week in Kontiolahti with two races around the 20th place mark.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Likely just needed to be on the IBU Cup to gain enough qualification points to make the World Cup. It's not like Slovenia has copious better options - not like when Herrmann, Nilsson or Sachenbacher-Stehle switched and their teams kept them on the IBU for a while (Herrmann came up to the World Cup quickly, but then returned to the IBU Cup after Christmas for most of the rest of her debut season). IBU like to use a points in trimesters basis for qualification, a few years ago Synnøve Solemdal had to drop to the IBU Cup to earn enough points to make it back to the World Cup, so debutantes and people who called last season to a halt after the Olympics were needing to start at Idre to get some qualification points back and race the World Cup. You can also see a few others who started on the IBU Cup, like Gandler, Merkushyna and Avvakumova.

Plus of course, she'll bring more interest, whether that be justified by results or not, than the Klemenčič sisters who were already on the World Cup, just by being a high profile convert from XC with name value, even though it's worth noting that Polona, the elder of the two, had a career week in Kontiolahti with two races around the 20th place mark.

That’s my point. Slovenia unfortunately doesn’t have any notable biathletes at the moment on the women’s side and only Urevc is capable of anything on the cross country side. I wouldn’t be surprised if she switched to biathlon at some point, considering she’s much, much better in skating.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Lampič 4th with 3 standing misses. She skied faster than Herrmann. When was the last time she had a top 5 in a distance race in the xc world cup? If she’s already shooting this well and clearly skiing well (for biathlon standards), she’ll be winning races sooner rather than later.

Last season her best distance result was 14th in the 10km classic mass start in Val Di Fiemme. She finished 1:12 behind Nepryaeva.
 
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Lampič 4th with 3 standing misses. She skied faster than Herrmann. When was the last time she had a top 5 in a distance race in the xc world cup? If she’s already shooting this well and clearly skiing well (for biathlon standards), she’ll be winning races sooner rather than later.

Last season her best distance result was 14th in the 10km classic mass start in Val Di Fiemme. She finished 1:12 behind Nepryaeva.
For what it's worth Biathlon skiing training is a lot more like the kind of training than xc sprinter do. More emphasis on hard intervalls and intensity and less volume.
 
Feb 20, 2010
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Lampič 4th with 3 standing misses. She skied faster than Herrmann. When was the last time she had a top 5 in a distance race in the xc world cup? If she’s already shooting this well and clearly skiing well (for biathlon standards), she’ll be winning races sooner rather than later.

Last season her best distance result was 14th in the 10km classic mass start in Val Di Fiemme. She finished 1:12 behind Nepryaeva.
This was a 7,5km race with two breaks, so it's halfway between a Team Sprint and a 10k. The 10k is only partly relevant here I feel, we usually use that because that's the event biathletes participate in when they moonlight in XC, and because sprints (which people like Eder and Latuillière have done decently enough in) have way more variables that mean it's hard to judge from the limited data points biathletes give us. Team Sprint is perhaps a more appropriate data point (repeated short efforts with recovery time) but it's really hard to form a viable conclusion from them because you've always got a second individual to factor in.

Typically the sprint is the event converted XC skiers (and just generally skiing-biased biathletes) do best in, since it's only 10 shots and individual start so you can manage your own race and don't get pressured by people around you. And besides, Anamarija is a better skier than Herrmann, who is seven years older and at her peak as an XC skier was around the same level as Anamarija was when she defected, so the speed Anamarija has seems in line with expectations, but her range performance was better than I expected at this level after Idre.

Also Lampič was 5th, who did you miss from the results because she started after all 4 finishers ahead of her? She skied roughly a penalty loop faster than Elvira Öberg, which seems more in line with where I thought she'd be (edit: and Elvira's time relative to competition was less outstanding as well), but her shooting drills were slow. Only just slower than Nilsson though, and Stina's been at this a lot longer than Anamarija.

But still, for the "top XC skiers could win every race with 7/10" point, it's still somewhat moot as Lampič would have needed 9/10 to win, therefore not unlike Johannes Thingnes Bø. Although Anamarija's shooting time is the obvious issue as she could have been close to the podium if not on it with a more Bø-like shooting time. Will be interesting to see how she does in the pursuit, last week in Idre she froze up completely in the busy range in prone and nearly held up people who were coming to the mat for the second wave of athletes reaching her shooting lane because she took so long to get started with the traffic all around her.

Anyway, Lampič in distance last season seems very consistent regardless of technique after Christmas - 17th in Zhangjiakou (classic +1'48 from Johaug), 15th in Lahti (classic +1'30 from Johaug), 16th in Falun (freestyle +1'16 from Johaug), 14th in Val di Fiemme (classic +1'11 from Nepryaeva). The World Cup points cutoff seems to be around a minute behind where Anamarija is in all of those.

It'll be fun to follow though, she's the kind of athlete I usually love to follow, she makes a good surrogate Hanna Sola, who I miss from the World Cup this season. If anybody from the two barred nations would get through the net it would be her.
 
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Jun 22, 2010
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Look at the ski times of the race. She’s considerably faster than the next best, and it’s only a 20 minute race.

Lampič is good in both techniques, but better in classic than skate. Her best skate distance race was 7th, in the Falun 10km mass start in 2020. She finished 4th in the Val Müstair handicap pursuit (14th time of the day) in the 2021 TDS. She was 8th in the 2019
Val Di Fiemme 10km classic mass start and 8th in the Oslo 30km classic in 2020. Those are top 3 results in distance races on the WC circuit.
 
Jun 22, 2010
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5 different countries, and none of them Norway in the men’s sprint qualifier in Beitostølen. Wonder if the Norwegians had waxing issues or simply got tired of hearing how Norwegian dominance is killing the sport so they backed off.
 
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Interesting with Chappaz transformation from skate distance specialist to classic sprinter,
 
Feb 20, 2010
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Look at the ski times of the race. She’s considerably faster than the next best, and it’s only a 20 minute race.

Lampič is good in both techniques, but better in classic than skate. Her best skate distance race was 7th, in the Falun 10km mass start in 2020. She finished 4th in the Val Müstair handicap pursuit (14th time of the day) in the 2021 TDS. She was 8th in the 2019
Val Di Fiemme 10km classic mass start and 8th in the Oslo 30km classic in 2020. Those are top 3 results in distance races on the WC circuit.
And as Mayo pointed out, biathlon ski training is more like sprint, lots of short distances and intervals, than a 10k. The main reason we use the 10k free as the main point of reference in comparison is that it's the event biathletes tend to do when moonlighting, and with fewer variables than sprint/team sprint.

Yes, she was the fastest. Most people will have expected that, surely? But it was the shortest discipline - closest to her niche as an XC skier - the Slovenes got the skis right (Klemenčič was also significantly faster than last week where she was already vastly improved, and you can look at her pace relative to the others that were on the IBU Cup with her last week), they have invested a lot more in their women's biathlon team than they have for years, hiring Ricco Groß and similar (I would wager that Lampič herself and the attention drawn by her may well be a factor in this, with a reallocation of funding from the XC team), and even so she would have needed to hit 9/10 to win.

The sprint is the discipline which most favours speedsters and converts because there's less management required, fewer shots to be fired, and it's individual start, so they don't have to deal with the pressure of a busy range (which Anamarija struggled with last week). If you look at most speed-oriented biathletes over recent years, the sprint is almost invariably the discipline they have the most success. Miriam Gössner, Hanna Sola, Johannes Kühn, Lars Berger, Julian Eberhard, the list goes on.

This was almost the best possible set of circumstances for her to get a confidence-building successful introduction to the sport. The best would have been for it to have been in Pokljuka.
 
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Chappaz was always a better sprinter than distance skier.
You’re right, I looked up his bio in the FIS app. Just remember his gold in 10k free in Lahtis and the impressive performance as first year senior in Toblach. But now I saw some good sprint performance as well.