Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Bavarianrider]

Sorry but this is a complete joke. In Nagano 1998 they had no gate rule, no Wind rule, no artificial run in, yet , of course they were able to finish the competition in the most astrocius conditions. Ski jumping has become so ridicilously artificial.
That being said, why not stop the competition and continue the next day.
Fis doing Fis things isn't a cross country thing only.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sorry but this is a complete joke. In Nagano 1998 they had no gate rule, no Wind rule, no artificial run in, yet , of course they were able to finish the competition in the most astrocius conditions. Ski jumping has become so ridicilously artificial.
That being said, why not stop the competition and continue the next day.
Fis doing Fis things isn't a cross country thing only.

A proper team competition would have been nice, to begin with. They could also have started a few minutes earlier if the weather was potentially sketchy later on.

If they were going to go with the Super Team silliness, then I don't understand why it's men only either.

FIS doing FIS things, as you say, but you have to feel for the guys like Raimund and especially Nikaido, who got absolutely screwed there.

 

[Bavarianrider]

A proper team competition would have been nice, to begin with. They could also have started a few minutes earlier if the weather was potentially sketchy later on.

If they were going to go with the Super Team silliness, then I don't understand why it's men only either.

FIS doing FIS things, as you say, but you have to feel for the guys like Raimund and especially Nikaido, who got absolutely screwed there.

I think the reason for the new format is due to the new quota regulations. However, if we are honest, there are simply too few countries that can have a 4 man team anyway to justify a competition.

 

[search]

Edit: now it seems they cancelled it, the Austrians and Poles are celebrating, the Germans and Japanese are really hard done by, the Poles and Norwegians get saved by the snow (especially the Poles, as Sundal had yet to jump in the weather. Wasek had already dropped them off the podium before Tomasiak had to jump in the snow) while Nikaido's jump being annulled means that Japan drop back from 2nd place to 6th - and Raimund pulled off a brilliant jump in the horrendous conditions that is all for nothing. Reminiscent of the time at Hochfilzen Simon Fourcade pulled off 10/10 and possibly his best ever race in horrendous wind and heavy snow, only for the weather to clear up later in the session and for him to not even end up on the podium.

even as a German, I must say that it was the right decision. Raimund did a great jump, but the break before him was also much shorter, so he had faster conditions. It was just totally unfair, starting with Prevc, and no way to still turn it around. The mistake was done before, when they didn't speed up on time.

 

[search]

If they were going to go with the Super Team silliness, then I don't understand why it's men only either.

the women just got the large hill event on top for 2026. Not unusual for IOC to do things step by step.

 

[Bavarianrider]

even as a German, I must say that it was the right decision. Raimund did a great jump, but the break before him was also much shorter, so he had faster conditions. It was just totally unfair, starting with Prevc, and no way to still turn it around. The mistake was done before, when they didn't speed up on time.

10 minutes after they stoppen it , the snowfall ended.

 

[search]

10 minutes after they stoppen it , the snowfall ended.

at that point they had already ruined the competition by deastroying Slovenia's and Poland's chances.

Restarting the round like in the old days could have been an option, but not sure if the rules still allow it. Probably not.

 

[Bavarianrider]

at that point they had already ruined the competition by deastroying Slovenia's and Poland's chances.

Restarting the round like in the old days could have been an option, but not sure if the rules still allow it. Probably not.

I dont see why restartig the roud wouldn't work no anboy having the audacity to protest the decicion.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Cross-country skiing really feels like a dying sport these days. Fewer and fewer countries are competitive,

It's incredible how bad things have gotten compared to the 2000s.

I don’t really think that is the case. Some nations are gone from the top (for example Estonia and Kazakhstan, but given the doping history of Veerpalu and Poltoranin, I’m not sure that’s actually a bad thing) and some nations that have had singular top skiers like Poland (Kowalzcyk) aren’t up there, but there are still some nations that are better than ever.

US in the last 10-15 years are much better than ever before, both among women and men (they might struggle on the women’s side next year), Canada is having good skiers on the way up and Great Britain has been a wonderful story in the last 10 years. Last year we saw Australia win a medal at U23-WC and there still are skiers like Eiduka and Del Rio out there from small countries that have shown potential to be up there if they get the training right. And Spain is consistantly a factor in the sprint races.

Among the traditional countries there aren’t much changes. The nordic countries are good (Norwegian men a bit too good, Swedish men a bit to bad), the all countries are solid (France have a very strong mens team, Switzerland is solid, Austria got a couple of really good athletes and Italia is competitive and even doing better again on the women’s side. Then of course Germany has been a massive disappointmemt this year, but their women are still at a very high level with good medal chances tomorrow. I would say that we have a solid core with 10 nations (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, US and Canada) that are competitive more or less week in week out during the season, and some other smaller nations (like UK, Czech and even Spain) that regularly are up there top 10. With Russia possibly back next year I think there are no reason to believe that XC skiing is dying or uncompetitive.

 

[kingjr]

Winners in the 2024/25 season on the men's side

Individual competitions
Norway (6 different winners)
Sweden (2)
Finland (1)

Team competitions
Norway

2005/06 season, by comparison:

Individual competitions
Sweden (5)
Norway (5)
Italy (2)
Russia (2)
Germany (1)
France (1)
Estonia (1)

Team competitions
Norway
Germany
Italy
Sweden

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Winners on the women's side in 24/25

Individual competitions
Sweden (7)
Norway (3)
USA (1)
Suisse (1)
Germany (1)

Team competitions
Sweden
Finland
Germany

05/06 season:

Individual competitions
Norway (3)
Russia (2)
Sweden (2)
Canada (2)
Czechia (1)
Finland (1)
Estonia (1)
Italy (1)
Germany (1)
Slovenia (1)

Team competitions
Norway
Germany
Finland
Russia



Would you say this indicates progress, regress, or things staying the same @Eddy Evenepoel ?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I don’t think «competitive» is only about winning.

 

[kingjr]

I don’t think «competitive» is only about winning.

What is it about, then, in your view?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

What is it about, then, in your view?

I think that Canada is a competitive nation when they put both men and women skiers in the top 10 at the Olympics in the 10k and their men finishes 5th, not far from a medal in the relay. I think UK is competitive when Musgrave finishes 6th in the Olympics. I think Austria is very competitive when they have both male and female skiers with world cup podiums this season. I think Czech shows that they are competitive when Janatova or their male sprinters regularly are in the top 10.

 

[kingjr]

I think that Canada is a competitive nation when they put both men and women skiers in the top 10 at the Olympics in the 10k and their men finishes 5th, not far from a medal in the relay. I think UK is competitive when Musgrave finishes 6th in the Olympics. I think Austria is very competitive when they have both male and female skiers with world cup podiums this season. I think Czech shows that they are competitive when Janatova or their male sprinters regularly are in the top 10.

Surely there are degrees of competitiveness though, right?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Surely there are degrees of competitiveness though, right?

Yes.

So what I wrote:
I would say that we have a solid core with 10 nations (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, US and Canada) that are competitive more or less week in week out during the season, and some other smaller nations (like UK, Czech and even Spain) that regularly are up there top 10. With Russia possibly back next year I think there are no reason to believe that XC skiing is dying or uncompetitive.

 

[kingjr]

Yes.

So what I wrote:
I would say that we have a solid core with 10 nations (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, US and Canada) that are competitive more or less week in week out during the season, and some other smaller nations (like UK, Czech and even Spain) that regularly are up there top 10. With Russia possibly back next year I think there are no reason to believe that XC skiing is dying or uncompetitive.

I think the sport has regressed considerably since the 2000s and the only way to deny that is to stretch the definition of competitiveness to the point where it becomes almost meaningless for most viewers.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Do you hold the same view about the uncompetitiveness of mens biathlon?

Last season Norway and France won every single race except 3 (Giacomel, Samuelsson and Fak won one each). The year before that only 4 nations managed to win and in 22-23 only 3 nations were able to win (with Norway winning every race minus 3).
Jakov Fak last season grabbing the 10th place in overall is the only time in the last 4 seasons where 5 different nations have been in the top 10 of the overall world cup, with only 4 nations in the other years.

If only wins are supposed to be interesting, i think very few sports are interesting.

 

[kingjr]

Do you hold the same view about the uncompetitiveness of mens biathlon?

Last season Norway and France won every single race except 3 (Giacomel, Samuelsson and Fak won one each). The year before that only 4 nations managed to win and in 22-23 only 3 nations were able to win (with Norway winning every race minus 3).
Jakov Fak last season grabbing the 10th place in overall is the only time in the last 4 seasons where 5 different nations have been in the top 10 of the overall world cup, with only 4 nations in the other years.

If only wins are supposed to be interesting, i think very few sports are interesting.

First of all, biathlon is an inherently different sport in that the shooting part creates an element of uncertainty that you simply don't get in cross-country skiing. Even when OEB, Fourcade, and J.T. Bø were in their primes, there was always that chance something might go wrong on the range. With, say, Klæbo in sprint competitions, you don't get that at all. Most of the sprints he lost, he threw away himself committing errors that he'll either never make again (Dresden, Ruka), or that are unlikely to happen again (Lillehammer, Davos). So there's that.

Moreover, if you compare it with the 2000s, biathlon hasn't actually changed much in that regard, which was the original point made with respect to CC skiing. For instance, in 2005/06, you had Germany and Norway winning most races, with France taking two and Sweden and Poland taking one each. Meanwhile, in team competitions there were 5 different winners last year; now compare that with CC skiing.


And no, not only wins matter, I'd be happy to look at some stats for podium placements as well.

 

[kingjr]

If this was CC skiing, I'd say this race is already over before the first exchange. It most likely is, in fact, over, but there is at least a small chance that Botn, Laegreid and Christiansen will mess up on the range. It'll probably already take 2 penalty loops, though.

Complete collapse by Braunhofer on the skis.