Nuclear disaster in Japan and wider Nuclear discussion

[Ferminal]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/inte...uake-update-15-march-1125-utc/201923359837458

The Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that the following radiation dose rates have been observed on site at the main gate of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant.

At 00:00 UTC on 15 March a dose rate of 11.9 millisieverts (mSv) per hour was observed. Six hours later, at 06:00 UTC on 15 March a dose rate of 0.6 millisieverts (mSv) per hour was observed.

These observations indicate that the level of radioactivity has been decreasing at the site.

As reported earlier, a 400 millisieverts (mSv) per hour radiation dose observed at Fukushima Daiichi occurred between units 3 and 4. This is a high dose-level value, but it is a local value at a single location and at a certain point in time.

BTW: INES is raised from 5 to 6 right now. Another day and we´ll have 7 (like Tschernobyl)

Do you have the press release from the IAEA which states that? Or are you still sourcing your information from tabloids?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Do you have the press release from the IAEA which states that? Or are you still sourcing your information from tabloids?

It´s from "Spiegel" in Germany. It comes from the French Nuclear-Authority (ASN).
It´s always the same: "no problem, no problem (remember TMI and Tschernobyl)". The more reassurance from experts, the more serious a problem is. So by tomorrow we´ll be told it´s INES 7.

It´s always better to think. I mean if 3 reactors are not cooled, two explosions, and 1 fire including plutonium, it´s obviously a big disaster. I hope at least Germany will shut down all nuclear power plants.

 

[Ferminal]

It´s from "Spiegel" in Germany. It comes from the French Nuclear-Authority (ASN).
It´s always the same: "no problem, no problem (remember TMI and Tschernobyl)". The more reassurance from experts, the more serious a problem is. So by tomorrow we´ll be told it´s INES 7.

It´s always better to think. I mean if 3 reactors are not cooled, two explosions, and 1 fire including plutonium, it´s obviously a big disaster. I hope at least Germany will shut down all nuclear power plants.

Unsubstantiated speculation isn't going to help anyone in Fukushima. I'm not sure what you are reading, but you must realise that all those publications are trying to create hysteria. Any facts are shaded over by layers of rubbish assertions, completely inaccurate headlines have been everywhere over the last few days. Are ASN on the ground? Do they have the same access to information as TEPCO, the State and the IAEA? If the operator and regulator in Japan are fabricating the radiation levels then we will find out about it in the coming days if tens of thousands of people are presenting with related illnesses. Are you trying to say that the situation is not being handled correctly? Should the evacuation zone be extended beyond the 20+10 area they have at the moment? Do you think that the plant operators and staff don't really care about the fact that their families and communities are in close proximity?

I fail to see what the hyperbole and hysteria is achieving other than selling adspace.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

As we learned (at least in germany) Tepco/Japanese-PM is behaving like the russians in 1986.

So the only chance we have, is to see the obvious. You can´t control 3 "un-cooled" reactors (in a few days it will be all 6). Sooner or later they´ll explode... 1+1 is always 2, no matter what else you are told.

 

[Ferminal]

As we learned (at least in germany) Tepco/Japanese-PM is behaving like the russians in 1986.

So the only chance we have, is to see the obvious. You can´t control 3 "un-cooled" reactors (in a few days it will be all 6). Sooner or later they´ll explode... 1+1 is always 2, no matter what else you are told.

UPDATE AS OF 9:15 A.M. EDT, TUESDAY, MARCH 15:
Fukushima Daiichi
Units 1 and 3 at Fukushima Daiichi are stable and cooling is being maintained through seawater injection. Primary containment integrity has been maintained on both reactors.

http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That´s good news. So only 1 will explode

Anyway, "Der Spiegel" is the most critical magazine in germany. No tabloid journalism there. They just wrote that 750 of 800 workers left the place. What you think will happen when all have left??

The cooling will do it by itself, like a bike rides itself or what?

 

[sublimit]

As we learned (at least in germany) Tepco/Japanese-PM is behaving like the russians in 1986.

So the only chance we have, is to see the obvious. You can´t control 3 "un-cooled" reactors (in a few days it will be all 6). Sooner or later they´ll explode... 1+1 is always 2, no matter what else you are told.

Its quite normal for governments to attempt to cover up and downplay nuclear accidents- IE Windscale, Chernobyl, and probably again now.

Hopefully most of the radiation is going out to sea anyway. And I presume the sea water used to cool the fuel rods boils and turns to steam and is contained somehow hopefully..

 

[Ferminal]

That´s good news. So only 1 will explode

Anyway, "Der Spiegel" is the most critical magazine in germany. No tabloid journalism there. They just wrote that 750 of 800 workers left the place. What you think will happen when all have left??

The cooling will do it by itself, like a bike rides itself or what?

"Der Spiegel" are simply getting their news from the official sources and then reprocessing (excuse the pun) it into a form which people will want to read. If you actually want to understand the situation you would be reading official sources, not commercial publications. I realise I am citing some pro-nuclear organisations, but I have no reason to believe that they are withholding information or altering it in a subjective way. If someone can point me to a better place to acquire the raw details in a concise form I will gladly use them.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150106668692499

Containment

A close watch is being kept on the radiation levels to ascertain the status of containment. As a precaution Tokyo Electric Power Company has evacuated all non-essential personnel from the unit.Fifty of the company's engineers remain to pump seawater into the reactor pressure vessel in an effort to cool it.

A message recieved from Tepco at about 5pm said the primary containment vessel around the reactor and secondary containment provided by the reactor building "show no significant change."

and some news on the cooling ponds, not good.

Kan's spokesman Noriyuki Shikata said that there had been "a sign of leakage" while firefighters were at work, "but we have found out the fuel is not causing the fire." The fire is now reported extinguished.

The International Atomic Energy Agency did confirm that the fire had taken place in the used fuel storage pool. The Japan Atomic Industry Forum's status report said the water was being supplied to make up for low levels.

Similar to the need to cool fuel in the reactor core, used fuel assemblies in cooling ponds require a covering of water to remove decay heat. The main differences being the amount of decay heat to be removed decreases exponentially with time and that fuel ponds are much less of an enclosed space than a reactor vessel. At the same time, ponds may contain several years of fuel.

JAIF reported that temperatures in the cooling ponds at units 5 and 6 are increasing, but the reason for this is not yet available.

 

[flicker]

High radiation within 3k of plant.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?iref=NS1

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Its quite normal for governments to attempt to cover up and downplay nuclear accidents

Not only those, they do it ALWAYS.

The worst case scenario is the most precise assumption, especially if one sees 2 reactors explode and workers leave. This one will go as the biggest nuclear disaster ever.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I realise I am citing some pro-nuclear organisations, but I have no reason to believe that they are withholding information or altering it in a subjective way.

Since that never happens?

Did you also trust BP in the oil spill, or Exxon, or Union-Carbide etc. etc. etc.? OMG

 

[sublimit]

The thing with BP is they became a convenient scapegoat for the catastrophe of the Gulf spill courtesy of the US government. With Nuclear accidents governments cant blame anybody but themselves hence them trying to keep the situation very quiet.

Sad but true.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

We´ll see. The opinions are made.

I have to watch the ITT now

 

[Ferminal]

Since that never happens?

Erm, I don't understand what you mean here? I clearly stated that I realise that such a thing does happen but I have no reason to believe it to be occurring in the case of the WNA. If you wish to show otherwise then please do so.

Did you also trust BP in the oil spill, or Exxon, or Union-Carbide etc. etc. etc.? OMG

Since when is this about trust? It's about hundreds of thousands of Japanese residents dealing with a precarious situation. I don't show much trust in anything, least of all commercial press, large corporations and governments. But I'm not going to let my skeptical nature interfere with my desire for clean and factual information.

If you want to use this situation to promote some kind of personal agenda you have against nuclear power then great, but why don't you save it until this situation has been dealt with? Japan isn't going to be abandoning nuclear power in the future so I don't think the German see-saw debate on electricity generation is particularly relevant here. If you have a problem with the way that the situation on the ground in Fukushima is being handled then I'm sure we would all like to hear it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As we learned (at least in germany) Tepco/Jap-PM is behaving like the russians in 1986.

So the only chance we have, is to see the obvious. You can´t control 3 "un-cooled" reactors (in a few days it will be all 6). Sooner or later they´ll explode... 1+1 is always 2, no matter what else you are told.

Bolded is a racist remark. Please fix it.

 

[flyor64]

...snipped for brevity...

If you have a problem with the way that the situation on the ground in Fukushima is being handled then I'm sure we would all like to hear it.

You forgot the sarcasm emoticon.

I for one do not want to hear it...

He´s stated his opinion but has not really contributed to the discussion thus far.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

And who has contributed?
A discussion is ALWAYS about opinions...
Whatever. In the end Japan will have its Tschernobyl. And if people will not learn, again, then WTF with countries who still believe in nuclear power plants. Let´em explode all until people start using their brains.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

And who has contributed?
A discussion is ALWAYS about opinions...
Whatever. In the end Japan will have its Tschernobyl. And if people will not learn, again, then WTF with countries who still believe in nuclear power plants. Let´em explode all until people start using their brains.

I just saw this car catch fire and blow up on the Freeway near my office. I am not sure but people will never learn......from those engines that blow up...... that countries who still believe in the conbustion engine ....let them all catch fire and blow up...

 

[BroDeal]

Article about GE's Mark I reactor design and longheld worries about it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Glen,

those wrecked car engines don´t pollute the air for the next 200.000 years... We have enough nuclear waste for all coming generations. There´s no need for more.... But how to explain this to ignorant americans who have 2.000 nuclear weapons on hair trigger alert, and 4.000 tons of the deadly toxin Plutonium in Texas alone?

Sleep on, until it´s too late.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Glen,

those wrecked car engines don´t pollute the air for the next 200.000 years... We have enough nuclear waste for all coming generations. There´s no need for more.... But how to explain this to ignorant americans who have 2.000 nuclear weapons on hair trigger alert, and 4.000 tons of the deadly toxin Plutonium in Texas alone?

Sleep on, until it´s too late.

Why call us ignorant Americans? Why not tone down the rhetoric. From your previous racial statement and now calling an entire country ignorant it seems your just asking for others to reply in the same manner?

There is plenty of problems with nuclear waste and nuclear weapons. There is also waste and pollution from a variety of other products that you could also focus on. I'm not Pro Nuke but I do think there is a need and reason for it. You want to call that ignorant also?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

And if people will not learn, again, then WTF with countries who still believe in nuclear power plants. Let´em explode all until people start using their brains.

That's quite the blunt statement. Do you really wish this? Or are you just trying to rile everyone else on the forum up into an argument?

This entire issue is much more complicated than you're making it sound.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Foxx, we welcome debate, not insults. Tone down the rhetoric and argue your points, or don't post.

 

[flicker]

Why call us ignorant Americans? Why not tone down the rhetoric. From your previous racial statement and now calling an entire country ignorant it seems your just asking for others to reply in the same manner?

There is plenty of problems with nuclear waste and nuclear weapons. There is also waste and pollution from a variety of other products that you could also focus on. I'm not Pro Nuke but I do think there is a need and reason for it. You want to call that ignorant also?

I think they are working on ways that are safe to use nuclear fusion. Until then there is a risk in using fusion, so it is a question of risk, is the risk worth it.
In the case of Japan of course the end answer will be yes.

For their economy to boom they need massive amounts of electricity and nuclear is as clean as it gets for Japan at this time.

This meltdown and radioactive reaction will subside and the bottom line is about the money.

Tokyo will rebuild, the Tsunami damage will be repaired, Japan will upgrade and be stronger than before.

Yes 25,000 deaths is horrible, but the Japanese are resilient and industrious.
They have an optomistic spirit like the United States and they will come out stronger.

The best place for info I think is BBC radio, as they are interviewing individuals on the ground, who have experienced this disaster.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That was bad grammar. With ignorant americans i meant only those who are "Pro-Nuke" (it comes from translation german-english)...
I can´t believe people still accept a technique which has no answers for the ever increasing nuclear waste (and disasters, and weapons).
OTOH people talk about MAYBE climate change in 50 years AND use this "argument" in favour for more nuclear plants. That is a paradoxical view of things, to say the least...

Americans aren´t that bad. Otherwise i wouldn´t love Football.

So i apologize here, i just "heated" up a little.