NYTimes article on Georgie as witness..

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mewmewmew13 said:
Oh for pete's sake....:rolleyes:

puh-leeze
Haha yeah. :p I just feel like Joe's on our "team" since he's a member. It's fun to see him out in the real world representing the general point of view of the CN forum. I feel like he's a voice for people like me who carry no weight in the media.

And plus he's obviously a rock star :cool:
 
Jul 16, 2009
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nice stuff.
its all over now.
Jo-are you comfortable with your monika? (spelling?)
I wonder who else will be put under the bus during the Olympics?,best time to do it

did anyone read that first comment by a Calvin Lee? LMAO. talk about spin right from the PR agency.

he's gone now. gorn

and not before time.

well done Joe, well done the journo, well done usada.

this is one slow train crash I'm loving to watch.

I'm.sure some of my favorites will go under the bus too. ogrady, Porte eventually, rogers. maybe even cadell.

but the sport needs it. I believe the cyclists need it, for their conscience and health, and future cyclists deserve it
 
Apollonius said:
Come on, when did the USADA care about an athlete's rights? In spite of the seemingly damming sins of Lance Armstrong it doesn't make the USADA beyond reproach, they're as dirty as everybody else rolling around in the mud right now.
You missed the exit for Sesame Street.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Berzin said:
The theme throughout the Hincapie piece is that we should all feel sorry for him, a good guy who fell into a bad situation.

Yet years later, he still makes public statements about Armstrong and how he's done so much for the sport instead of just being quiet.

Strip Hincapie of his fake halo, and you'll see what he truly was-an opportunist who reveled in the vapors of Armstrong's ridiculous Tour run and did what he could to take advantage of the reputation he's garnered as the peloton's "Captain America".

With his constant "no comments" to the media he's just trying to insulate himself as much as possible once the truth ever comes out. Because then we'll see the true Hincapie, an unrepentant serial doper who did nothing but hide behind his good-guy demeanor.
It is a good angle for Hincapie to take. What other options are there?

At least for the last couple of years Hincapie has not treated the public like a bunch of idiots. He has deflected questions without lying. An Ullrich-like "one plus one" comment is probably not far off.
 
Nov 20, 2010
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joe_papp said:
This isn't a leak. It's a story that Juliet Macur has been working on for weeks and weeks. USADA has nothing to do with this story and it's inappropriate for anyone to characterize it or misrepresent it as such.
Having worked with another Times reporter on a civil/criminal matter, I doubt that you have the full picture as to what her sources are. In fact I know you don't.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
No, we are much better than Wiki, and even the heralded New York Times.

In the article it says "Davis Phinney, the first American to win a Tour stage," - when of course the first American to win a stage was LeMond in 1985.
1984 if you count the TTT win?
 
Jun 2, 2011
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Berzin said:
The theme throughout the Hincapie piece is that we should all feel sorry for him, a good guy who fell into a bad situation.

Yet years later, he still makes public statements about Armstrong and how he's done so much for the sport instead of just being quiet.

Strip Hincapie of his fake halo, and you'll see what he truly was-an opportunist who reveled in the vapors of Armstrong's ridiculous Tour run and did what he could to take advantage of the reputation he's garnered as the peloton's "Captain America".

With his constant "no comments" to the media he's just trying to insulate himself as much as possible once the truth ever comes out. Because then we'll see the true Hincapie, an unrepentant serial doper who did nothing but hide behind his good-guy demeanor.
+1 Couldn't agree more. George is a cheat, pure and simple. He was a key actor in the whole fraud. He's made lots of money, founded a business and even scored a podium babe for gads sake off the backs of those he cheated. He should not come out of this unscathed. Captain America, my ar$e!
 
Berzin said:
The theme throughout the Hincapie piece is that we should all feel sorry for him, a good guy who fell into a bad situation.
.... I'm pretty sure it goes all the way back to Carmichael's doping juniors Armstrong and Hincapie.

Why he got such a gentle treatment the NYT is another item on the long list of really bad people in cycling getting a fat break.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
.... I'm pretty sure it goes all the way back to Carmichael's doping juniors Armstrong and Hincapie.

Why he got such a gentle treatment the NYT is another item on the long list of really bad people in cycling getting a fat break.
Hincapie is from New York.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
.... I'm pretty sure it goes all the way back to Carmichael's doping juniors Armstrong and Hincapie.
It goes further back than that, when he was terrorizing the wanna-be's riding around Central Park, long before Chris Carmichael and his "extract of cortisone" shots on the US national team.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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joe_papp said:
I would bet my reputation on the fact that USADA does not leak confidential material to the media for unattributed publication.

Never mind the fact that would be in direct violation of their protocol and athletes' rights.

EDIT: oh I also know b/c I talked to her. d'oh.
...so you would bet your reputation...ooooh....that's rich...

Cheers

blutto
 
Jun 13, 2010
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blutto said:
...so you would bet your reputation...ooooh....that's rich...

Cheers

blutto
I was wondering when someone was going to call BS on Joe's "reputation" comment!
 
Nov 26, 2010
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joe_papp said:
I would bet my reputation on the fact that USADA does not leak confidential material to the media for unattributed publication.

Never mind the fact that would be in direct violation of their protocol and athletes' rights.

EDIT: oh I also know b/c I talked to her. d'oh.


Oh yeah, The NYT always tells people it quotes how it has sourced a story, who has spoken on background or off the record etc.

You may be right, but you have no way of knowing if you are.
 
sartain said:
I was wondering when someone was going to call BS on Joe's "reputation" comment!
Took you guys long enough.

I was trying to think what I could offer up in a bet on behalf of USADA. I started with one ball. Then I thought no, that's not enough - I'll bet both balls. But then I realized that would sound somewhat ridiculous so I decided I'd make a joke out of it and offer my "reputation." lol. Congrats to whomever it was who first spotted that. ;)

Note: I still believe that USADA is extremely fair, especially w/ Bill Bock as inside counsel.

mr. tibbs said:
Haha yeah. :p I just feel like Joe's on our "team" since he's a member. It's fun to see him out in the real world representing the general point of view of the CN forum. I feel like he's a voice for people like me who carry no weight in the media.

And plus he's obviously a rock star :cool:
Thx. Check is in the mail.

Cimacoppi49 said:
Having worked with another Times reporter on a civil/criminal matter, I doubt that you have the full picture as to what her sources are. In fact I know you don't.
Fine then she lied to me concerning her sources for the article when we spoke over a month ago. :mad: Please, reveal to us all who Juliet Macur's source is at USADA for the story in question.
 
sartain said:
I was wondering when someone was going to call BS on Joe's "reputation" comment!
Good on Joe for his harmless jab at self deprecation.

I was going to pull the trigger as well, until I realized we were being taken.

"Unimpeachable?"

"Joe Papp, a former professional cyclist and convicted steroid trafficker turned antidoping advocate, said Hincapie’s word would be “unimpeachable” and “will finally lead people to the point where they don’t believe Lance is innocent anymore.”

I'll bet his honor too.

"a former professional cyclist and convicted steroid trafficker turned antidoping advocate"

I like his 'credibility.'

+ he offers the (losers) inside scoop, the Forum should embrace his 'flailing attempt at redemption.'

:D

JP... well played. & in a Global newspaper! - one of the forums finest*!

*Accolades dismissed for being a self perpetuating pharmacist.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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TubularBills said:
Good on Joe for his harmless jab at self deprecation.

I was going to pull the trigger as well, until I realized we were being taken.

"Unimpeachable?"

"Joe Papp, a former professional cyclist and convicted steroid trafficker turned antidoping advocate, said Hincapie’s word would be “unimpeachable” and “will finally lead people to the point where they don’t believe Lance is innocent anymore.”

I'll bet his honor too.

"a former professional cyclist and convicted steroid trafficker turned antidoping advocate"

I like his 'credibility.'

+ he offers the (losers) inside scoop, the Forum should embrace his 'flailing attempt at redemption.'

:D

JP... well played. & in a Global newspaper! - one of the forums finest*!

*Accolades dismissed for being a self perpetuating pharmacist.
....whatever...

Cheers

blutto
 
DirtyWorks said:
.... I'm pretty sure it goes all the way back to Carmichael's doping juniors Armstrong and Hincapie.

Why he got such a gentle treatment the NYT is another item on the long list of really bad people in cycling getting a fat break.
I have to chime in here again and express my disagreement with your claim that the NYT is trying to be gentle w/ Hincapie. The theme is not that people should feel sorry for him - the main point is that there is a radical difference in the way that Hincapie is perceived by the public and in cycling, in comparison to Landis and Tyler, and that this difference will be very difficult for Armstrong to counter through his old tactic of character assassination, because he himself has done so much to build up the Hincapie mythology.

And the quotes that reference what a nice guy GH is, or how he "oozes respect" (according to O'Grady) serve as testimony to this.

I'm not going to defend Juliet's reporting b/c she doesn't need me for that, but I think sometimes ppl here forget that articles like this one aren't written for the Clinic, they're written for the general public, which is many, many steps behind us here in de-constructing the various doping myths and distilling the truth.
 
May 19, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
.... I'm pretty sure it goes all the way back to Carmichael's doping juniors Armstrong and Hincapie.

Why he got such a gentle treatment the NYT is another item on the long list of really bad people in cycling getting a fat break.
Really bad? I'm not disputing he's a ***, but can you elaborate?
 
Jul 6, 2010
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joe_papp said:
I have to chime in here again and express my disagreement with your claim that the NYT is trying to be gentle w/ Hincapie. The theme is not that people should feel sorry for him - the main point is that there is a radical difference in the way that Hincapie is perceived by the public and in cycling, in comparison to Landis and Tyler, and that this difference will be very difficult for Armstrong to counter through his old tactic of character assassination, because he himself has done so much to build up the Hincapie mythology.

And the quotes that reference what a nice guy GH is, or how he "oozes respect" (according to O'Grady) serve as testimony to this.

I'm not going to defend Juliet's reporting b/c she doesn't need me for that, but I think sometimes ppl here forget that articles like this one aren't written for the Clinic, they're written for the general public, which is many, many steps behind us here in de-constructing the various doping myths and distilling the truth.
Your bolded is very important. the cycling geeks get wound up in what they "know", which is different from what the public "knows". All in all, that was a good article, both for GH and what may be coming for LA.

It really is all about context.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
No, we are much better than Wiki, and even the heralded New York Times.

In the article it says "Davis Phinney, the first American to win a Tour stage," - when of course the first American to win a stage was LeMond in 1985.
Turner29 said:
1984 if you count the TTT win?

Not sure if they changed the wording in the meantime, but in any case the article currently says road stage - which would be correct AFAIK. 1984 was indeed TTT and 1985 was ITT, no? In 86 they both won stages, but Phinney much earlier in the race if I'm not mistaken...
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
Your bolded is very important. the cycling geeks get wound up in what they "know", which is different from what the public "knows". All in all, that was a good article, both for GH and what may be coming for LA.

It really is all about context.
Thanks for the support.

The one other "mistake" we all make (collectively and as individuals) is debating/arguing in terms of absolutes and definite knowledge what it is that we "know" or are "sure" of w/ respect to specific cases of doping and even what's happening "in general" in the peloton w/ respect to doping. The regular and established contributors to this forum are definitely (lol) extremely well-informed and possessing sophisticated understanding of doping in cycling, when compared not just to the general public, but also to casual fans of pro cycling and even recreational riders and racers. Nevertheless, except for very few unique individuals here (and I don't write that to boost-up myself or make a value judgement), "no one" actually knows "for sure" what's gone on with specific riders in the past or what's happening now. And then even those unique individuals can only be sure of the facts pertaining to the situations they were directly involved in or have been advised of by actual participants.

And yet there are many claims made w/ absolute certainty!
 
JPM London said:
Not sure if they changed the wording in the meantime, but in any case the article currently says road stage - which would be correct AFAIK. 1984 was indeed TTT and 1985 was ITT, no? In 86 they both won stages, but Phinney much earlier in the race if I'm not mistaken...
Wow. Spot on.

Stage # 3 Phinney (First American TDF "Plain Stage") BRAVO!

Stage # 13 Lemond (First TDF US "Stage with Mountains") BRAVO!

OOps. They both win the "First American Title"

Via the (What I would assume is a differentiation between 'Flat' & 'Vertical.')

Lemond Wins. 1 + 1 = 2

Uncontested America's Best!

E.S. @ D... LA? USADA Victorious over Sisyphus.

But...

Remember Lemond #1!
 

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