O Gran Camiño 2024, Spain, February 22-25

[Tim Cahill]

What are you trying to achieve with reactions like these? He's not allowed to have a bad race? Or, as in this case, to just return from injury and not be in top shape yet?

They just spit conspiracies because they don't like the rider, instead of searching and trying to know more about the rider since he was young.

It's just so dumb, I know this forum is full of Jumbo/Vingegaard haters, but at least try a little harder. I mean, I could do a little PCS search and find some mediocre results by Pogacar, to show once and for all that he's a fake, but why would I do that? What would I prove?

VIngegaard's progression was being discussed, I was wondering what happened with an out of place result given his form in that season, as a previous poster kindly elaborated on from a 2021 press release, he allegedly had an injury.

Not everything needs to be treated as some kind of mortal attack on him Richard, the forum isn't full of Vingegaard "haters", I don't hate the guy, I don't know him, completely ambivalent towards him as a person, same as most people here, just root against him in races because he's the best cyclist and it's no fun to support people who win everything.

Nothing is achieved by anyone posting on this forum by the way, it's not that deep, just chatting *** during races, try not to get so upset all the time.

 

[Froome]

It's just so dumb, I know this forum is full of Jumbo/Vingegaard haters, but at least try a little harder. I mean, I could do a little PCS search and find some mediocre results by Pogacar, to show once and for all that he's a fake, but why would I do that? What would I prove?

At least they could listen for a second, one of the most loved riders on this forum called Roglic.

It will not matter if i say that Vingegaard was riding for an small team in denmark ( a country without mountains) called Coloquil between his 19 and 21 (between 2016 and 2018) of age, when at the same time he was working in a fish factory. He also also broked his femur in 2017.

He won in 2015 with just 18 years on alpe d'huez, a mountain ITT where amateurs around the world participate.

Do you think this is the perfect conditions to get most recognized results during that age?

Despite that, in 2016 with 19 years he was more faster than Bernal on a mountain ITT in Sibiu Tour.
He also did some top 10 in races that he did in 2016.

In 2017 with 20 years, he just raced until May before he broked his femur, and he did again top 10 in GC races and one day races.

In 2018 with 21 years he continued to do top 10 in races he participated, and he even won the mountain ITT of the giro ciclisto della vale d'aosta, a race very well know.

In 2019, with 22 years Jumbo signed him.
He continued to do top 10 in a lot of races.
Deutschland Tour, Tour of Denmark, he won a race in norway.

He also won a mountain stage in Tour of Poland where he beat jay hindley, sivakov, higuita.

In 2020 with 23 years he didn't race a lot like the other riders because of the Covid, but he did top 10 in Tour of Pologne and helped Roglic winning the Vuelta 2020. He did a good job on angliru.


In 2021 with 24 years before he did second in the Tour France, he was second in GC on Tour Basque country and won settimana internazionale coppi e bartali.

2022 and 2023 everybody knows what he did.

If you look closely, he had decent results since 2016 when he had just 19 years, when he didn't had the proper conditions in his life for a lot of reasons to do good results.

Jumbo Visma wanted to do some physiological tests on him advised by the diretor of Coloquil, after vingegaard being well know for beating the record of strava, coll de rates.

The physiological tests of vingegaard were unbeliavable good, and that's why Jumbo signed him.

Some danish scientist also speaked about that.

"Con 23 años le hice una prueba a Vingegaard y no podía creer lo increíblemente grande que tiene el corazón, nunca había visto nada igual"

En un momento en el que se disparan las sospechas sobre el excelso rendimiento de Jonas Vingegaard en el pasado Tour de Francia es importante recordar los datos fisiológicos del ciclista danés que son, según el fisiólogo deportivo Lars Johansen,

diariodeltriatlon.es

Like i said in the beginning, at least least, listen to one of the most beloved riders in this forum, called Roglic.

He said that he knew one day Vingegaard would be the one, because he had the better numbers and a unbeliavable engine.

Roglic predicts 'beautiful' Tour de France matchup with Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel

'It's the best for us to have the highest level, and the best one will win' says Slovenian ahead of season debut in Paris-Nice

www.cyclingnews.com

You can watch more in specific his interview to Rouler.

@Tim Cahill

 

[scribers]

I would very much like to see Vingo's 2023 ITT performance at the tour de France, elsewhere on the calendar. Not as someone who hates vingo/visma as suggested above in this thread because that suggestion falls flat on comprehension of the conversation, but as someone who enjoys the full calendar of professional cycling.

If you have that ability. Share it

As an American, I was a fan of Lance Armstrong's July domination. But I always got it when people were upset that he never showed up at other races. On it's face, we now know why this might have been the case for another subforum. But Bruyneel expressedly didn't value the other races above the Tour and intentionally held his riders back from demonstrating their abilities outside of July. You listen to Bruyneel today, he is still conflicted about this with today's riders and he thinks he's right. Vingo's apparent singular focus seems to prove him right. (yes, I know he races months before July. So did Lance and everyone else)

We thought the days of Merckx calendar domination were gone, but this generation seems to feel differently about this potential. Pogi's effort on the calendar is a joy to watch, not as a fanboy but a cycling fan. Demand more of Vingo, we deserve it.

 

[theyoungest]

VIngegaard's progression was being discussed, I was wondering what happened with an out of place result given his form in that season, as a previous poster kindly elaborated on from a 2021 press release, he allegedly had an injury.

Not everything needs to be treated as some kind of mortal attack on him Richard, the forum isn't full of Vingegaard "haters", I don't hate the guy, I don't know him, completely ambivalent towards him as a person, same as most people here, just root against him in races because he's the best cyclist and it's no fun to support people who win everything.

Nothing is achieved by anyone posting on this forum by the way, it's not that deep, just chatting *** during races, try not to get so upset all the time.

Ah, the old nihilistic escape, "everything we say is pointless anyway". Sure. It's funny you mention Richard Plugge though, as a journalist he wrote some opinion pieces about their predecessor Rabobank that would make your reactions seem well-informed and balanced by comparison

I would very much like to see Vingo's 2023 ITT performance at the tour de France, elsewhere on the calendar. Not as someone who hates vingo/visma as suggested above in this thread because that suggestion falls flat on comprehension of the conversation, but as someone who enjoys the full calendar of professional cycling.

That's difficult because Vingegaard's strength is in recovery, in being able to perform consistently over three weeks. That TDF time trial couldn't have come at a more perfect time, have a more perfect course, and with his only rival not at his very best. Then you get a slightly flattering result like the one we saw in July. He has done very well in time trials elsewhere though, just not as completely dominant because when everyone's relatively fresh his relative strength also isn't as big, and when the course is relatively flat it's of course also more difficult for him to win. He could have won the final TT in the Tour 2022 though, but he gifted that one to Van Aert.

 

[Netserk]

We'll see him ride a fresh, dead-flat ITT in Tirreno, the last one he rode was the Copenhagen opening ITT of the 2022 Tour. He beat Rogla there thanks to better cornering in the rain.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I would very much like to see Vingo's 2023 ITT performance at the tour de France, elsewhere on the calendar. Not as someone who hates vingo/visma as suggested above in this thread because that suggestion falls flat on comprehension of the conversation, but as someone who enjoys the full calendar of professional cycling.

If you have that ability. Share it

As an American, I was a fan of Lance Armstrong's July domination. But I always got it when people were upset that he never showed up at other races. On it's face, we now know why this might have been the case for another subforum. But Bruyneel expressedly didn't value the other races above the Tour and intentionally held his riders back from demonstrating their abilities outside of July. You listen to Bruyneel today, he is still conflicted about this with today's riders and he thinks he's right. Vingo's apparent singular focus seems to prove him right. (yes, I know he races months before July. So did Lance and everyone else)

We thought the days of Merckx calendar domination were gone, but this generation seems to feel differently about this potential. Pogi's effort on the calendar is a joy to watch, not as a fanboy but a cycling fan. Demand more of Vingo, we deserve it.

These days he is competitive in most of the races he's riding. Sure, so far he hasn't been able to beat Pogačar in a straight up fight in a week-long stage race (they've also only met each other twice in such races since the 2021 Tour), but that doesn't mean it'll never happen.

In Paris-Nice last year, he really tried to challenge Pogačar and that subsequently killed him, but it didn't mean he was worse than Gaudu and the other riders who beat him that day. They would have died, too, if they had tried to follow Vingegaard's initial attack or Pogačar's decisive one.

 

[Elos Anjos]

These days he is competitive in most of the races he's riding. Sure, so far he hasn't been able to beat Pogačar in a straight up fight in a week-long stage race (they've also only met each other twice in such races since the 2021 Tour), but that doesn't mean it'll never happen.

In Paris-Nice last year, he really tried to challenge Pogačar and that subsequently killed him, but it didn't mean he was worse than Gaudu and the other riders who beat him that day. They would have died, too, if they had tried to follow Vingegaard's initial attack or Pogačar's decisive one.

That boils down to the age old question of Pogi not focusing solely in the Tour as Vingo does.

 

[kn0s]

I would very much like to see Vingo's 2023 ITT performance at the tour de France, elsewhere on the calendar. Not as someone who hates vingo/visma as suggested above in this thread because that suggestion falls flat on comprehension of the conversation, but as someone who enjoys the full calendar of professional cycling.

If you have that ability. Share it

As an American, I was a fan of Lance Armstrong's July domination. But I always got it when people were upset that he never showed up at other races. On it's face, we now know why this might have been the case for another subforum. But Bruyneel expressedly didn't value the other races above the Tour and intentionally held his riders back from demonstrating their abilities outside of July. You listen to Bruyneel today, he is still conflicted about this with today's riders and he thinks he's right. Vingo's apparent singular focus seems to prove him right. (yes, I know he races months before July. So did Lance and everyone else)

We thought the days of Merckx calendar domination were gone, but this generation seems to feel differently about this potential. Pogi's effort on the calendar is a joy to watch, not as a fanboy but a cycling fan. Demand more of Vingo, we deserve it.

Jonas has ridden the 21, 22 and 23 seasons at a level you would notice. 21 was the breakthrough where they saw weakness from Pogi on mnt Ventoux and startet to plan for a possible 22 victory. Then the 22 season was completely focused on trying to win the tour. Now the 23 season he had 17 victory's throughout the season.

My point is that saying "he only wins/peaks at the tour" is based on one single year. How can anyone draw any conclusion based on that? You would think he had done it for years.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Jonas has ridden the 21, 22 and 23 seasons at a level you would notice. 21 was the breakthrough where they saw weakness from Pogi on mnt Ventoux and startet to plan for a possible 22 victory. Then the 22 season was completely focused on trying to win the tour. Now the 23 season he had 17 victory's throughout the season.

My point is that saying "he only wins/peaks at the tour" is based on one single year. How can anyone draw any conclusion based on that? You would think he had done it for years.

He didn't do one day races.
The fact he was beaten by Pogacar gives credit to the argument that he's a slow builder towards the Tour peak, whilst Pogacar was already leaning towards an early Spring peak.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

That boils down to the age old question of Pogi not focusing solely in the Tour as Vingo does.

I don't think you can blame Vingegaard for Pogačar not riding Dauphine in 2022 or Itzulia in 2022 and 23. You can blame his team for being more hesitant about letting him and previously also Roglič ride more one-day races. If he had been riding for UAE then perhaps it would have been different.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I don't think you can blame Vingegaard for Pogačar not riding Dauphine in 2022 or Itzulia in 2022 and 23. You can blame his team for being more hesitant about letting him and previously also Roglič ride more one-day races. If he had been riding for UAE then perhaps it would have been different.

I'm not "blaming" Vingo or Pogi or UAE for their decisions, but stating they are different approaches. I think Vingo is very, very focused and Pogi just thrives with variety. To my mind, although the later is a matter of fact, it can certainly be spinned as the ultimate defense that Pogi's fans have against towards why he hasn't won the last two Tours. But of course it's more than that.

 

[Netserk]

That boils down to the age old question of Pogi not focusing solely in the Tour as Vingo does.

 

[Cookster15]

At least they could listen for a second, one of the most loved riders on this forum called Roglic.

It will not matter if i say that Vingegaard was riding for an small team in denmark ( a country without mountains) called Coloquil between his 19 and 21 (between 2016 and 2018) of age, when at the same time he was working in a fish factory. He also also broked his femur in 2017.

He won in 2015 with just 18 years on alpe d'huez, a mountain ITT where amateurs around the world participate.

Do you think this is the perfect conditions to get most recognized results during that age?

Despite that, in 2016 with 19 years he was more faster than Bernal on a mountain ITT in Sibiu Tour.
He also did some top 10 in races that he did in 2016.

In 2017 with 20 years, he just raced until May before he broked his femur, and he did again top 10 in GC races and one day races.

In 2018 with 21 years he continued to do top 10 in races he participated, and he even won the mountain ITT of the giro ciclisto della vale d'aosta, a race very well know.

In 2019, with 22 years Jumbo signed him.
He continued to do top 10 in a lot of races.
Deutschland Tour, Tour of Denmark, he won a race in norway.

He also won a mountain stage in Tour of Poland where he beat jay hindley, sivakov, higuita.

In 2020 with 23 years he didn't race a lot like the other riders because of the Covid, but he did top 10 in Tour of Pologne and helped Roglic winning the Vuelta 2020. He did a good job on angliru.


In 2021 with 24 years before he did second in the Tour France, he was second in GC on Tour Basque country and won settimana internazionale coppi e bartali.

2022 and 2023 everybody knows what he did.

If you look closely, he had decent results since 2016 when he had just 19 years, when he didn't had the proper conditions in his life for a lot of reasons to do good results.

Jumbo Visma wanted to do some physiological tests on him advised by the diretor of Coloquil, after vingegaard being well know for beating the record of strava, coll de rates.

The physiological tests of vingegaard were unbeliavable good, and that's why Jumbo signed him.

Some danish scientist also speaked about that.

"Con 23 años le hice una prueba a Vingegaard y no podía creer lo increíblemente grande que tiene el corazón, nunca había visto nada igual"

En un momento en el que se disparan las sospechas sobre el excelso rendimiento de Jonas Vingegaard en el pasado Tour de Francia es importante recordar los datos fisiológicos del ciclista danés que son, según el fisiólogo deportivo Lars Johansen,

diariodeltriatlon.es

Like i said in the beginning, at least least, listen to one of the most beloved riders in this forum, called Roglic.

He said that he knew one day Vingegaard would be the one, because he had the better numbers and a unbeliavable engine.

Roglic predicts 'beautiful' Tour de France matchup with Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel

'It's the best for us to have the highest level, and the best one will win' says Slovenian ahead of season debut in Paris-Nice

www.cyclingnews.com

You can watch more in specific his interview to Rouler.

@Tim Cahill

Thanks for listing all of that.

If you look closely, he had decent results since 2016 when he had just 19 years, when he didn't had the proper conditions in his life for a lot of reasons to do good results.

"If you look closely" - that's why we have people who are not fans. I just check Wiki. It usually gives a good summary of riders. Lots of pros have "good engines" in the lab. An example was Christophe Moreau.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I'm not "blaming" Vingo or Pogi or UAE for their decisions, but stating they are different approaches. I think Vingo is very, very focused and Pogi just thrives with variety. To my mind, although the later is a matter of fact, it can certainly be spinned as the ultimate defense that Pogi's fans have against towards why he hasn't won the last two Tours. But of course it's more than that.

You made it sound like he was only focusing on being good in the Tour and therefore wasn't wasting any unnecessary energy beforehand, whereas I don't think he had to go all in on winning as many stages as possible in Itzulia and Dauphiné last year.

"If you look closely" - that's why we have people who are not fans. I just check Wiki. It usually gives a good summary of riders. Lots of pros have "good engines" in the lab. An example was Christophe Moreau.

There has been dubious claims about how good the test was, but the fact remains that it was reported before he had even officially signed with Jumbo.

 

[kn0s]

He didn't do one day races.
The fact he was beaten by Pogacar gives credit to the argument that he's a slow builder towards the Tour peak, whilst Pogacar was already leaning towards an early Spring peak.

No one day races, so what? Did Pogacar have many more race days? One day races has nothing to do with a "only focus on the tour" statement.

I think Jonas only ever beat Pogi in a one week race in 21 Itzulia. Why should he be able to do it last year with bad conditions around the race for him. Don't know how slow anything was with Jonas last year, he was pretty dominant for alot of it.

 

[Froome]

Thanks for listing all of that.



"If you look closely" - that's why we have people who are not fans. I just check Wiki. It usually gives a good summary of riders. Lots of pros have "good engines" in the lab. An example was Christophe Moreau.

Well, like i said, at least go check what Roglic said about vingegaard.

 

[Kragh96]

This pretty much explains that he always had the abilities to be a top rider

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yyIflpc57s

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Well, like i said, at least go check what Roglic said about vingegaard.

Roglič's words can't really be trusted since they were then teammates, and the team obviously also wanted some good PR around Vingegaard at the time.

 

[Froome]

You made it sound like he was only focusing on being good in the Tour and therefore wasn't wasting any unnecessary energy beforehand, whereas I don't think he had to go all in on winning as many stages as possible in Itzulia and Dauphiné last year.



There has been dubious claims about how good the test was, but the fact remains that it was reported before he had even officially signed with Jumbo.

Vingegaard didn’t focus just on the Tour in 2023. The goal was winning the Tour and the Vuelta.

The main goal in 2024 for him, will be the Tour again and being in even better shape in Vuelta 2024 to do the double. The double is the goal and if it works well, he said he will try the double Giro Tour in the future.

He has other main goals and that's one week races and Grand Tours, not one day races. Maybe in the future, but certainly he will not do Tour de Flandres, he is just 58 kg.

 

[The Clogger]

At least they could listen for a second, one of the most loved riders on this forum called Roglic.

It will not matter if i say that Vingegaard was riding for an small team in denmark ( a country without mountains) called Coloquil between his 19 and 21 (between 2016 and 2018) of age, when at the same time he was working in a fish factory. He also also broked his femur in 2017.

He won in 2015 with just 18 years on alpe d'huez, a mountain ITT where amateurs around the world participate.

Do you think this is the perfect conditions to get most recognized results during that age?

Despite that, in 2016 with 19 years he was more faster than Bernal on a mountain ITT in Sibiu Tour.
He also did some top 10 in races that he did in 2016.

In 2017 with 20 years, he just raced until May before he broked his femur, and he did again top 10 in GC races and one day races.

In 2018 with 21 years he continued to do top 10 in races he participated, and he even won the mountain ITT of the giro ciclisto della vale d'aosta, a race very well know.

In 2019, with 22 years Jumbo signed him.
He continued to do top 10 in a lot of races.
Deutschland Tour, Tour of Denmark, he won a race in norway.

He also won a mountain stage in Tour of Poland where he beat jay hindley, sivakov, higuita.

In 2020 with 23 years he didn't race a lot like the other riders because of the Covid, but he did top 10 in Tour of Pologne and helped Roglic winning the Vuelta 2020. He did a good job on angliru.


In 2021 with 24 years before he did second in the Tour France, he was second in GC on Tour Basque country and won settimana internazionale coppi e bartali.

2022 and 2023 everybody knows what he did.

If you look closely, he had decent results since 2016 when he had just 19 years, when he didn't had the proper conditions in his life for a lot of reasons to do good results.

Jumbo Visma wanted to do some physiological tests on him advised by the diretor of Coloquil, after vingegaard being well know for beating the record of strava, coll de rates.

The physiological tests of vingegaard were unbeliavable good, and that's why Jumbo signed him.

Some danish scientist also speaked about that.

"Con 23 años le hice una prueba a Vingegaard y no podía creer lo increíblemente grande que tiene el corazón, nunca había visto nada igual"

En un momento en el que se disparan las sospechas sobre el excelso rendimiento de Jonas Vingegaard en el pasado Tour de Francia es importante recordar los datos fisiológicos del ciclista danés que son, según el fisiólogo deportivo Lars Johansen,

diariodeltriatlon.es

Like i said in the beginning, at least least, listen to one of the most beloved riders in this forum, called Roglic.

He said that he knew one day Vingegaard would be the one, because he had the better numbers and a unbeliavable engine.

Roglic predicts 'beautiful' Tour de France matchup with Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel

'It's the best for us to have the highest level, and the best one will win' says Slovenian ahead of season debut in Paris-Nice

www.cyclingnews.com

You can watch more in specific his interview to Rouler.

@Tim Cahill

Lots of things have been said and written about his youth results and the lack of it. We all know his personality traits, him being nervous etc.

But he was also lazy. So lazy they gave him a job at a fish factory to get him off the couch and to give him some structure in his everyday life. It's often been said in different podcasts that he barely trained, and if his Danish coach said he should train 2-3 hours he would do just 2. He ate the same meal whether he trained for 1½ hours or 5 hours. This means he had to learn alot at Jumbo about being a professioel. In other words, this also means that he will take a higher leap in level when joining a WT team than - for example - Out-of-pants, who allegedly is a perfectionist and have been living like a monk since his junior years.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Vingegaard didn’t focus just on the Tour in 2023. The goal was winning the Tour and the Vuelta.

The main goal in 2024 for him, will be the Tour again and being in even better shape in Vuelta 2024 to do the double. The double is the goal and if it works well, he said he will try the double Giro Tour in the future.

He has other main goals and that's one week races and Grand Tours, not one day races. Maybe in the future, but certainly he will not do Tour de Flandres, he is just 58 kg.

The biggest goal was the Tour, and he didn't focus on the Vuelta until afterwards. He was also only going to the Vuelta, if he felt recovered from the Tour and thought he had a chance of winning it.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Lots of things have been said and written about his youth results and the lack of it. We all know his personality traits, him being nervous etc.

But he was also lazy. So lazy they gave him a job at a fish factory to get him off the couch and to give him some structure in his everyday life. It's often been said in different podcasts that he barely trained, and if his Danish coach said he should train 2-3 hours he would do just 2. He ate the same meal whether he trained for 1½ hours or 5 hours. In other words - he had to learn alot at Jumbo about being a professioel. In other words, this also means that he will take a higher leap in level when joining a WT team than - for example - Out-of-pants, who allegedly is a perfectionist and have been living like a monk since his junior years.

One of the things Jumbo highlightet was how much he actually managed to train while working at the fish factory, so he had definitely learned to take better care of his career before he joined them, unless they were full of fish.

 

[Froome]

The biggest goal was the Tour, and he didn't focus on the Vuelta until afterwards. He was also only going to the Vuelta, if he felt recovered from the Tour and thought he had a chance of winning it.

He had planned doing the Vuelta since december 2022.

The goal this year is the double Tour and Vuelta, he said he will try in the future the double Giro Tour, if before he wins the double Tour Vuelta.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He had planned doing the Vuelta since december 2022.

The goal this year is the double Tour and Vuelta, he said he will try in the future the double Giro Tour, if before he wins the double Tour Vuelta.

No, the plan was only to do it, if he felt recovered from the Tour and thought he had a chance of winning it. He had barely looked at the route before the race started. He had been promised a spot in the team, but it wasn't a done deal that he would take it.

 

[memyselfandI]

I hope he does Liege one day in peak form.