Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[Siriuscat]

"good we have only few days left to wait"

Yep.....oh...hang on....If he gets off then we can spend the next 18 months debating the minutiae of the decision and second guessing the WADA testimony and second guessing the RFEC stuff ..... and...and ...and......and .......

Whatever the outcome, the result will still be debated ad nauseum because people can't move on and that's as disappointing as the fact that we don't have a quick, concise, corruption free, anti doping process!

 

[doolols]

Whatever the outcome, the result will still be debated ad nauseum because people can't move on and that's as disappointing as the fact that we don't have a quick, concise, corruption free, anti doping process!

I don't think so. If he gets censured, banned, titles stripped etc, then a lot of members will stop posting here. If, however, he gets off ...

 

[sniper]

indeed, some marathon-style posting going on here.
I'm talking guinness-book-of-records style here.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't think so. If he gets censured, banned, titles stripped etc, then a lot of members will stop posting here. If, however, he gets off ...

If he gets banned, it will stop for the length of his ban, then when he comes back his performances might come up for further discussion depending on his team, DS and whether he has been finally dragged out Fuentes secret cupboard into the light!

 

[doolols]

If he gets banned, it will stop for the length of his ban, then when he comes back his performances might come up for further discussion depending on his team, DS and whether he has been finally dragged out Fuentes secret cupboard into the light!

Yep, you're not wrong there. Anyone coming back from suspension is viewed with some suspicion.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yep, you're not wrong there. Anyone coming back from suspension is viewed with some suspicion...

...which would be entirely wrong in this case.

 

[Benotti69]

...which would be entirely wrong in this case.

An athlete with history of doping and winning will always come under suspicion.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

a discussion about joint probability turned in to a disjoint discussion...the path i predicted only few posts up as highly probable and likely to get disjoint. again, we can have fun and compare apples to oranges but that’s not what was taking place in the courtroom.

at this point in time having followed most of the developments closely for the last 18 months, i believe that the leaks from 2 weeks ago are indeed as close to what actually happened in the court room as we were let on up to now. the evidence points to a different decision-making path, albeit also based on statistics, than the 2 learned gentlemen above are arguing….

it’s quite true that eventually the panel will have to chose btw the steak and the plasma bag. but it will almost certainly not be based on impractical and misleading analysis of joint probability of the 2 events.

in stead, the panel has considered each event credibility on its own merits as based on the evidence presented by both sides -transfusion scenario against transfusion scenarios, contamination against contamination…

for ex, the article clearly states that the 2-step transfusion theory was swept aside b/c bert’s lawyers proved it ‘impossible‘. well, that’s an inaccurate terminology perhaps due to the mistake by the journo or the legal rhetoric of bert’s lawyers…regardless, the cas merely had to consider the 2 step transfusion not credible rather than impossible.

i ran my own investigation as to the cas thinking and tried to promote the appropriate discussion as to the reasoning by starting a separate thread but, as often happens in the clinic it went nowhere…good we have only few days left to wait

The AP article? It did not say that the transfusion theory could not be contested or your suggestion that CAS have to consider it not credible.
The article saysACs lawyers said it was 'impossible'....

Contador's lawyers argued that if he transfused, clenbuterol and plastic residues would have appeared together in his July 21 sample and because they didn't, the transfusion scenario was impossible.

The only ruling from CAS was that Ashenden could not be called as a witness for WADA -

The chairman, Efraim Barak, announced that WADA lawyers were not allowed to question Ashenden about these transfusion issues but could cross-examine an anti-doping consultant for Contador's side, Paul Scott.

which was the correct decision as WADA do not have to prove their case, thats for Contador to do.

Which is why the other posters are correct to discuss the statistics of contamination as that is what will ultimately decide the case.

 

[python]

all i can say doc is what i told you before several times, learn to read the context instead of demonstrating cut-pasting skills (or posing i don't know which is true) and you'll avoid many problems...

i passed the article's meaning quite accurately - the transfusion theory according to contador's lawyers (per the article) was 'impossible' where my point was (since the topic was about probabilities) that for the cas panel it is sufficient to look at it as not credible to dismiss it. i did not attach value to the correct or incorrect decision. unless you again looking for an argument, you'll get it, be sure.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

all i can say doc is what i told you before several times, learn to read the context instead of demonstrating cut-pasting skills (or posing i don't know which is true) and you'll avoid many problems...

Perhaps you should learn to cut & paste instead of offering your "context"

i passed the article's meaning quite accurately - the transfusion theory according to contador's lawyers (per the article) was 'impossible' where my point was (since the topic was about probabilities) that for the cas panel it is sufficient to look at it as not credible to dismiss it. i did not attach value to the correct or incorrect decision. unless you again looking for an argument, you'll get it, be sure.

Your internet threat has been noted - and ignored.

Thats a pretty long and heavy clarification for a a piece that you say you described "quite accurately".
Regardless - the transfusion was brought up and WADA were allowed cross examine. But none of this explains how Contador had clenbuterol in his system, which is what he also needs to do- which is where the statistics come in.

 

[python]

i did not threaten you, poser.

i only suggested that you will get a response from me, as you have in the past, regarding the many clueless statements you made. because they are too much like what you've done before - trying to look smart but in fact revealing complete incompetence when the subject tilts beyond automatic pasting and actually exposing yourself.

i don't feel limited in my exposing you b/c you clearly don't demonstrate any doubt that you don't understand the subject.

again, clueless, it was about probabilities.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

i did not threaten you, poser.

i only suggested that you will get a response from me, as you have in the past, regarding the many clueless statements you made. because they are too much like what you've done before - trying to look smart but in fact revealing complete incompetence when the subject tilts beyond automatic pasting and actually exposing yourself.

i don't feel limited in my exposing you b/c you clearly don't demonstrate any doubt that you don't understand the subject.

again, clueless, it was about probabilities.

Yes, your "responses" - which are ad-hominens (that would be all the blue parts) - since that is all you offer I stated I would ignore the threat of receiving your "responses".

 

[palmerq]

I thought I posted here before, you guys need to be nicer to each other, please dont continue with the petty insults mr python...

 

[python]

Yes, your "responses" - which are ad-hominens (that would be all the blue parts) - since that is all you offer I stated I would ignore the threat of receiving your "responses".

yeah, we've seen your whining before when exposed for a poser you are. as stated earlier, i will ignore the whining and seek any, i mean any substantive responses about which so far you've demonstrated utter incompetence. to repeat - it was about probabilities.

 

[python]

Yes, your "responses" - which are ad-hominens (that would be all the blue parts) - since that is all you offer I stated I would ignore the threat of receiving your "responses".

my responses were to your misunderstanding of the subject.

it was about you not understanding the subject of joint probability suggested by several posters and my comments that cas (as leaked) will likely to look at it differently. you somehow quoted completely irrelevant passages and attributed to me things i never mentioned in the specific post...that's what i'm having a response to and i feel it's worth to be cleared. no threats, just another case of you misunderstanding the issue and never doubting it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

my responses were to your misunderstanding of the subject.

it was about you not understanding the subject of joint probability suggested by several posters and my comments that cas (as leaked) will likely to look at it differently. you somehow quoted completely irrelevant passages and attributed to me things i never mentioned in the specific post...that's what i'm having a response to and i feel it's worth to be cleared. no threats, just another case of you misunderstanding the issue and never doubting it.

Your claws have been clipped - but essentially this is not much different then your other posts.
If I misunderstood I would expect you to show where, if I misquoted, I would expect you show where, if I am wrong I will happily correct it - turning around and writing post after post about how I do not understand does not "clear" things.

And just so you understand my position, I hold little value of joint probability either, as it comes down to Contador having to establish that the clen came from food contamination.
That is his defense, that is what he has to show, that is why the stand alone statistics on clenbuterol food contamination are important and why Contador has a bio-statistician Shiela Bird on his team.

 

[python]

If I misunderstood

no, not any ones claws but you clues or lack of such was clipped. yes you did and it's very easy... it was shown numerous times. that you want 'to be shown' whilst still writing post after post that you understand joint probability, is rather amusing

And just so you understand my position, I hold little value of joint probability

100% agree. as i said above, one can be understood to hold little value of something they don't have a comprehension of.

again, all your verbalism about the value judgements is irrelevant.

 

[ChrisE]

AC is sure riding like somebody that is worried about something.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

yes you did and it's very easy... it was shown numerous times. that you want 'to be shown' whilst still writing post after post that you understand joint probability, is rather amusing
100% agree. as i said above, one can be understood to hold little value of something they don't have a comprehension of.

again, all your verbalism about the value judgements is irrelevant.

Can you clear up something for me - since I assume that is what you are trying to do - do CAS have a handle on this? Or do you know better? Because I am going on CAS rulings here - all I get from you is, well nothing actually.

 

[python]

Can you clear up something for me - since I assume that is what you are trying to do - do CAS have a handle on this? Or do you know better? Because I am going on CAS rulings here - all I get from you is, well nothing actually.

if you were interested in clearing the issue doc, you'd have no business asking a question you know the answer to. in fact i answered the Q many times. you even once pretended to be on the same wavelength with me. the fact you keep asking it, tells me, well, nothing..except you're very confused..

 

[doolols]

Moving on ...

AC is sure riding like somebody that is worried about something.

No - you've got it wrong. He's overweight, out of condition, not prepared ... oh hang on, you mean he won a stage?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

if you were interested in clearing the issue doc, you'd have no business asking a question you know the answer to. in fact i answered the Q many times. you even once pretended to be on the same wavelength with me. the fact you keep asking it, tells me, well, nothing..except you're very confused..

Where? What post?

 

[python]

Where? What post?

we've seen it before, we've also see your remarkable ability to surface almost 2 years old fluff no one except you would care about. thus go and do your home work. that you chose to ignore my assertion of you pretending to be on the same wavelength tells how little credibility you deserve.

 

[ChrisE]

Moving on ...



No - you've got it wrong. He's overweight, out of condition, not prepared ... oh hang on, you mean he won a stage?

Oh yes.

On the eve of getting over with a BS excuse, he climbs like Gaul. Bang Bang!

 

[Spider1964]

indeed, some marathon-style posting going on here.
I'm talking guinness-book-of-records style here.

Yeah.. Let's hope Francois the Postman doesn't get involved