Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[hrotha]

What? You disagree with the notion that the whole process is taking ridiculously long?

 

[LaFlorecita]

What? You disagree with the notion that the whole process is taking ridiculously long?

No.
________

 

[Cobblestoned]

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I can`t see him banned for 3 reasons:
1. He got a lawyer team for millions
2. He can`t be banned, i have already made a bet with my friends he will win next years tour
3. He is hot in a suit

 

[just some guy]

I can`t see him banned for 3 reasons:
1. He got a lawyer team for millions
2. He can`t be banned, i have already made a bet with my friends he will win next years tour
3. He is hot in a suit

I did not care up until now.

I hope he gets banned

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I did not care up until now.

I hope he gets banned

you homophobic ***

 

[masking_agent]

I think he'll walk , then Bjarne will breathe a huge sigh of relief, then go have a sit down with his saxo doctors and Contador and discuss this never happening again (meaning do whatever it takes so that he's never positive ever again), and
go ride into the history books when he wins the 2012, 2013, and 2014 tours de france.

 

[python]

Still I would appreciate the input from our two most prominent pseudo-scientists, Python and Merckx Index , to some of my questions. I confess to having very little knowledge of the direct, visible consequences transfusing in and out have on the blood values.

Regards
GJ

i'll try to address yours and ferminal's concerns in more detail a bit later (in transition now...).

briefly, if wada/uci actively pursue a transfusion theory as being the likeliest route for clen, they will have to construct a plausible picture (with details of amounts withdrawn and re-injected, on which dates, and how it fits in with haemoglobin and % reticulocytres values...) of the most likely actual transfusion procedure contador would have employed.

for, example if he was using blood banking method, he'd have to re-inject every 4 to 5 weeks as the blood goes bad after that period - that's where alues in may may come in......if he was using long-term frozen blood method (assisted by nitrogen and glycerol), the may values are likely irrelevant...

later.

 

[lean mean &green]

Okay withdrawing seems reasonably compatible with it being a training period, but indeed how can haemoglobin rise after a withdrawal?

Regards
GJ

autologous transfusions are done on a cycle. this is necessary to avoid detection. contador would likely withdraw/reinfuse blood at different times throughout the year. it looks like he got caught twice in 2010. once for clenbuterol and once for transfusions.

he got caught 3 times if you count the clenbuterol as evidence of a second transfusion too!

 

[Race Radio]

I see zero possibility that Contador walks from this without a sanction.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I can`t see him banned for 3 reasons:
1. He got a lawyer team for millions
2. He can`t be banned, i have already made a bet with my friends he will win next years tour
3. He is hot in a suit

Yeah that zoot suit does seem to be tailored. All that is missing is white shoes/ white belt and a HAT.

 

[gustienordic]

It seems to me that there is not much of a case against him. I don't know the details very well, but there was hardly any clenbuterol in his system, plasticizers will not be discussed, and the only other big thing is a spike in his biological passport that March, by ~1 g/ml? which I don't know how significant that is.

 

[The Hitch]

I see zero possibility that Contador walks from this without a sanction.

I see little chance too then.

 

[lean mean &green]

in my fantasy contador recieves the 2 year ban he deserves and the real reasons for the RFEC decision (whether it's incompetence or political intervention) are exposed in such a way that the shame and embarassment lead to real reform.

 

[GJB123]

i'll try to address yours and ferminal's concerns in more detail a bit later (in transition now...).

briefly, if wada/uci actively pursue a transfusion theory as being the likeliest route for clen, they will have to construct a plausible picture (with details of amounts withdrawn and re-injected, on which dates, and how it fits in with haemoglobin and % reticulocytres values...) of the most likely actual transfusion procedure contador would have employed.

for, example if he was using blood banking method, he'd have to re-inject every 4 to 5 weeks as the blood goes bad after that period - that's where alues in may may come in......if he was using long-term frozen blood method (assisted by nitrogen and glycerol), the may values are likely irrelevant...

later.

Thx Python, this already goes a long way in clearing up my laymen's questions. Much appreciated.

It is mighty interesting though if there are more values that could help construct the regime he might have been using. And if that is the case, why wasn't he charged under the blood passport rules or might he still be in het near future? I still think it seems an uphill task for UCI/WADA to reconstruct a possible autologous tranfusion regime if Contador had little or few odd readings in his passport (as seems to be the case on what was divulged in the REC-procedure).

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

in my fantasy contador recieves the 2 year ban he deserves and the real reasons for the RFEC decision (whether it's incompetence or political intervention) are exposed in such a way that the shame and embarassment lead to real reform.

OMG, you actually fantasize about things like that. You need to get a life ASAP.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I see zero possibility that Contador walks from this without a sanction.

Agree - and if he gets a sanction then it will be more than likely the full 2years, with the suspension he has already served taken off.

About the plasticizer test - as has been mentioned, this case is about Clenbuterol so while in itself the plasticizer test cannot be used to find AC guilty it can show that the clen did not come from food contamination.

Also - the news today from the butcher, about the purchased meat was not from the Basque area puts a big dent in one of ACs arguments about the amount of testing done on Basque meat.

 

[hrotha]

Also - the news today from the butcher, about the purchased meat was not from the Basque area puts a big dent in one of ACs arguments about the amount of testing done on Basque meat.

I wouldn't be so optimistic. The controls in the Basque Country are no doubt very similar to those of other Spanish regions. It makes you wonder, though - didn't AC's detectives supposedly trace the meat? If so, didn't the butcher tell them that the meat wasn't Basque? Did those detectives exist?

 

[christianpetrin]

in my fantasy contador recieves the 2 year ban he deserves and the real reasons for the RFEC decision (whether it's incompetence or political intervention) are exposed in such a way that the shame and embarassment lead to real reform.

Oh, that would be wonderful!

But then, if they really decide to "clean" the spanish riders, there would be very few riders still racing out there... well, I guess that's why they don't it anyway...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I wouldn't be so optimistic. The controls in the Basque Country are no doubt very similar to those of other Spanish regions. It makes you wonder, though - didn't AC's detectives supposedly trace the meat? If so, didn't the butcher tell them that the meat wasn't Basque? Did those detectives exist?

ACs defense during the RFEC hearing was on how little testing is done on Basque meat, they went to a lot of trouble to show that you could not draw statistical analysis from the testing done - that argument seems to no longer exist if the meat was not from the Basque region in first instance.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I see zero possibility that Contador walks from this without a sanction.

Respectfully disagree with this outcome. At best the UCI's case will make the appearance of taking the CAS process seriously and further the charade of the UCI's anti-doping show. The interview on VeloNews will quote Pat as saying "The UCI is disappointed with the outcome. The UCI tried, but there's nothing more to be done." VeloNews will fill in all kinds of absurd reasoning as to why the outcome came to be to help Pat keep doping alive.

My limited understanding of the process is CAS deals with the information from the case presented to the Spanish federation. If this is the case, new evidence about a transfusion scheme will not be presented. I could be wrong. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

An alternative would be to convict Pharmador but have some ridiculously short timeout from the sport.

 

[Race Radio]

Respectfully disagree with this outcome. At best the UCI's case will make the appearance of taking the CAS process seriously and further the charade of the UCI's anti-doping show. The interview on VeloNews will quote Pat as saying "The UCI is disappointed with the outcome. The UCI tried, but there's nothing more to be done." VeloNews will fill in all kinds of absurd reasoning as to why the outcome came to be to help Pat keep doping alive.

My limited understanding of the process is CAS deals with the information from the case presented to the Spanish federation. If this is the case, new evidence about a transfusion scheme will not be presented. I could be wrong. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

An alternative would be to convict Pharmador but have some ridiculously short timeout from the sport.

It is not a UCI case, it is a WADA case. They filed separate appeals and the UCI's was, as expected, a joke. The guys driving this are WADA, the UCI would prefer it all goes away

There is a window for a 1 years sanction, but I do not see that happening

 

[Publicus]

Respectfully disagree with this outcome. At best the UCI's case will make the appearance of taking the CAS process seriously and further the charade of the UCI's anti-doping show. The interview on VeloNews will quote Pat as saying "The UCI is disappointed with the outcome. The UCI tried, but there's nothing more to be done." VeloNews will fill in all kinds of absurd reasoning as to why the outcome came to be to help Pat keep doping alive.

My limited understanding of the process is CAS deals with the information from the case presented to the Spanish federation. If this is the case, new evidence about a transfusion scheme will not be presented. I could be wrong. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

An alternative would be to convict Pharmador but have some ridiculously short timeout from the sport.

That is incorrect. New evidence can be provided. New charges, cannot. There is still the very real possibility that CAS could punt on this matter and send it back to Spain/RFEC for further deliberation based on the new evidence.

Also, I don't think the fact that the meat may not have come from the Basque Country hurts Contador that much at all. It does put a dent in the notion of traceability if there is no way to determine the acutal source of the meat--which is much more meaningful to the underlying case IMO.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Respectfully disagree with this outcome. At best the UCI's case will make the appearance of taking the CAS process seriously and further the charade of the UCI's anti-doping show. The interview on VeloNews will quote Pat as saying "The UCI is disappointed with the outcome. The UCI tried, but there's nothing more to be done." VeloNews will fill in all kinds of absurd reasoning as to why the outcome came to be to help Pat keep doping alive.

My limited understanding of the process is CAS deals with the information from the case presented to the Spanish federation. If this is the case, new evidence about a transfusion scheme will not be presented. I could be wrong. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

An alternative would be to convict Pharmador but have some ridiculously short timeout from the sport.

In short CAS pursue the law and the facts - so essentially it is a fresh hearing.
Also - a point that has not been considered is that WADA were not represented at the original RFEC hearing.

The transfusion and/or plasticizer argument will relate only to show that it may have been the route for his clen positive.

 

[Aguirre]

I dont get this attitude "it is unfortunate", "it is loss for cycling". How many people here really believe that Contador is clean rider?

well, I do

And he will get off, I'm sure of this.