Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[sniper]

also from the article:

Sin embargo, el asunto se ha precipitado y ahora, antes de conocerse la sentencia, la AMA ha hecho saber que aquel 23 de noviembre Barak no permitió a los abogados de la AMA interrogar a Ashenden sobre su teoría de que el clembuterol llegó en una bolsa de plasma, ni sobre los plastificantes ni sobre por qué los glóbulos rojos van con plastificantes y no así el plasma.

Sí que le permitieron a Ashenden discutir con Paul Scott, el experto de Contador, quien, según fuentes de la AMA, no supo explicar el porqué de los altos reticulocitos de Contador ni tampoco sabía sus valores naturales (su exención de hematocrito hasta el 52%). Según Ashenden, solo en una de 7.000 posibilidades ese escenario sería debido a causas fisiológicas.

 

[python]

So Contador apparently has an exemption for high hematocrit according to the article in El Pais.

this not a big surprise nor is it a big news.

even in this very thread, myself dr mas and ME discussed old l'equipe article about his high haemoglobin....


L’Équipe reports that particular attention will be paid to Contador’s haemoglobin level in May 2010. The French newspaper claims that it rose to 17.9g/l in May 2010, a spike from its usual level of between 16 to 16.5g/l.

the data reported by l'equipe is unequivocally abnormal if true. is it unexplained ? we can only guess b/c it was never made public.

at the time i speculated, that a base line of 16 to 16.5 g/l for haemoglobin can only be explained by: (i) consistent blood doping with top ups or (ii) blood uci dispensation/permit.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=762633&postcount=611

 

[roundabout]

It's probably the first time I've seen it more or less confirmed so it's news enough.

 

[python]

my post was not aimed at you and it's understandable that no one has the time to read and follow everything...yet there is a tendency to only follow the news that fits one's angle...it goes both ways.

 

[doolols]

Also interesting from that article:

If the CAS states that the counter argument, the contaminated meat is the most likely and not punished, the AMA believe proved his suspicions of bias and may appeal to the Swiss federal court. If you win the thesis of the AMA, the broker will be Madrid's Pinto and his group who claim to have been excessive pressure from the agency that has made Barak and his colleagues make an award in his favor.

Pls excuse Google translation.

So if AC walks, that still might not be the end of the story

 

[Nilsson]

Exemptions are not that interesting nowadays. The height of blood parameters isn't what the passport is looking at. It's more about variations...

Nevertheless, there seems to be a lot at stake for WADA (in the end losing funding?) to do this kind of 'dirty' politics...

 

[doolols]

And note the cosy photo of AC and Israel president, Simon Peres (taken during the Israel training camp)

 

[Cimber]

Also interesting from that article:

Pls excuse Google translation.

So if AC walks, that still might not be the end of the story

Well that would explain the most recent CAS-postponement in order to make the decision "air-tight" and not appealable

 

[Cimber]

And note the cosy photo of AC and Israel president, Simon Peres (taken during the Israel training camp)

Saxo bank has a whol video of the training camp including that sequence on its website

http://www.team-saxobank.com/ (low-mid on the site)

 

[python]

Exemptions are not that interesting nowadays. The height of blood parameters isn't what the passport is looking at. It's more about variations...

Nevertheless, there seems to be a lot at stake for WADA (in the end losing funding?) to do this kind of 'dirty' politics...

as in your caution to my reading of another issue(about the 3/3 arbitrators which i appreciated), i want to caution you that the issue of the permit validity may be tricky.

for example, and i have written about it many times, ricco also had the uci blood permit...should we doubt now that he needed it aand shouldn't we ask how did he get the uci to approve it ? besides, obviously, ricco used it as the means to snub his testers and the positive he finally failed.

i hope, the cas had a good look at that permit.

 

[Cimber]

Btw what I find interesting is that WADA is leaking alot of information thereby themselves trying to lobby the result but creating outside public pressure on CAS. I would have expected the Contador camp to pull somethignglike that, but not an organisation like WADA. Hence, the leaked information should be interpreted carefully and critically.

 

[sniper]

As I said, bribes come in different shapes:

SAXO BANK BUILD CYCLING SCHOOL IN ISRAEL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=poZrmPk3sNk

conspiracy? Doc? Bro?

 

[GJB123]

Btw what I find interesting is that WADA is leaking alot of information thereby themselves trying to lobby the result but creating outside public pressure on CAS. I would have expected the Contador camp to pull somethignglike that, but not an organisation like WADA. Hence, the leaked information should be interpreted carefully and critically.

Not if your name is Sniper and if the information seems to point towards either a conviction of AC or a "conspiracy" of sorts. Now I am off again , I have to find my tinfoil hat, because I am sure NASA, CIA and/or some aliens are in collusion trying to read my mind as we speak.

EDIT: Once I found my tinfoil hat again, I would be more than willing to fold Sniper one of his own tinfoil hats. He seems in dire need of it.

 

[GJB123]

As I said, bribes come in different shapes:

SAXO BANK BUILD CYCLING SCHOOL IN ISRAEL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=poZrmPk3sNk

conspiracy? Doc? Bro?

You are preparing for an acquittal so it seems? Searching high and low for reasons why not to accept the CAS-ruling if it is not to your liking? Pathetic!

 

[python]

a note about wada leaking whereas it always previously advocated restraint is indeed telling.

i previously tried to bring attention (always unsuccessfully) to one of the big drivers imo for wada winning this case - political aspects - that is, consequences of losing a big case like this to the cornerstone wada principle of strict liability..

 

[sniper]

(...)

No. 3 - There has to b a benefit. Now if it shown that Alberto and the boys were not building a cycling school but dry walling Baraks new mansion then we might have something.
(...)

Ok, I see Doc already addressed the issue.

But isn't a cycling school benefit enough?

Who knows how Barak himself benefits from it.
100 possible ways.

 

[GJB123]

a note about wada leaking whereas it always previously advocated restraint is indeed telling.

i previously tried to bring attention (always unsuccessfully) to one of the big drivers imo for wada winning this case - political aspects - that is, consequences of losing a big case like this to the cornerstone wada principle of strict liability..

So true. And now that it seems they have painted themselves into a corner with a far too detailed transfusion theory, the gloves are coming off.

I have said it before, WADA took a huge leap of faith by presenting such a detailed case for transfusion. If the numbers indeed don't add up, as you explained, their case could have simply collapsed. And as MI stated, the plasticizer test might then be the best thing that ever happened to AC in this case.

Regards
GJ

 

[sniper]

You are preparing for an acquittal so it seems? Searching high and low for reasons why not to accept the CAS-ruling if it is not to your liking? Pathetic!

I'm not the only one preparing for it. Call me pathetic, then also call WADA pathetic

"Este proceso en una farsa. Hemos estado a punto de irnos", fue el mensaje telefónico (sms) que uno de los expertos de la AMA envió a un amigo en la noche del miércoles 23 de noviembre, después del tercer día de la vista del caso Contador en Lausana.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/encrucijada/Contador/elpepidep/20120113elpepidep_7/Tes

Btw what I find interesting is that WADA is leaking alot of information thereby themselves trying to lobby the result but creating outside public pressure on CAS. I would have expected the Contador camp to pull somethignglike that, but not an organisation like WADA. Hence, the leaked information should be interpreted carefully and critically.

As you say, it is unusual for WADA to be so ****ed and publicly express their anger. So what if the process really was a farce? It would at least account for WADA's behavior as well as for AC's / Saxo's optimism.

 

[GJB123]

I'm not the only one preparing for it. Call me pathetic, then also call WADA pathetic

Wada's reaction, including the leaks, is indeed pathetic and unethical. There you have it, I have said it. Happy now?

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/encrucijada/Contador/elpepidep/20120113elpepidep_7/Tes

As you say, it is unusual for WADA to be so ****ed and publicly express their anger. So what if the process really was a farce?

Have you have thought at all that there might be a different reason why WADA is so ****ed off at possibly losing this high-profile case. Have you even read python's last post? Newsflash: WADA is not beyond reproach and they might just have normal wordly motives as much as the higher held motives of seeking justice against doping offenders. You would have to be unbelievably naive to think otherwise.

And as for the bribery thing. Stop flogging the dead horse already. You made your point, most (sensible) people seem not to agree with you, so move on.

Regards
GJ

 

[LaFlorecita]

And note the cosy photo of AC and Israel president, Simon Peres (taken during the Israel training camp)

OMG the president of Israel gives Alberto a birthday present! You know, he even sang "Happy Birthday" to him! Even more suspicious!

 

[airstream]

Hopefully, you [his fans] will stay with us on this forum after the ban.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So true. And now that it seems they have painted themselves into a corner with a far too detailed transfusion theory, the gloves are coming off.

You rightly gave out to sniper about preparing for a particular type of judgement - but you are guilty of the same if you believe that an elaborate theory was introduced by WADA.
If we know anything form previous cases is that a lot of misinformation comes out at key points and erroneous accounts are accepted as fact and continued in future newscycles.

I have said it befoire, WADA took a huge leap of faith by presenting such a detailed case for transfusion. If the numbers indeed don't add up, as you explained, their case could have simply collapsed. And as MI stated, the plasticizer test might then be the best thing that ever happened to AC in this case.

Regards
GJ

I would presume Scott will argue that is impossible for a clenbuterol positive to come from a transfusion - and WADA/UCI will say that it is possible. Again WADA/UCI do not have to prove anything except that it is a possibility.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Hopefully, you [his fans] will stay with us on this forum after the ban.

No worries. Unlike you, I like more than 1 rider.

 

[sniper]

I could name a 100 countries that are in more need of financial support for a cycling school than Israel.

I'm just saying...

 

[airstream]

No worries. Unlike you, I like more than 1 rider.

I didn't declare my preferences at all. I like races much more than riders.