Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[peacefultribe]

How young? This study sounds all kinds of messed up. I am not surprised they failed to change behaviour.

That said, gene analysis could also potentially reveal mssing / additional genes explaining behaviour.

If I remember correctly, they were pre school or kindergarten aged. I had the same reaction as you did when I studied it. Very messed up. They even said that some of the kids got worse. The kids were exceptionally clever and ended up manipulating their parents and teachers. It was scary.

 

[the big ring]

I see.

You forgot witch-hunt, bitter and jealous ex-teammates, and unconsitutional. Please try again.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I see.

George being doped and helping doped Lance win the Tour is a family man getting the job done.

Lance has a family too, so for him, being a family man getting the job done is to be doped and win the Tour?

So the difference between the two is that one of them won the race and the other one only helped.

Now I see why Jan Ullrich wanted to be in 2nd place all the time. Doping isn't a crime unless you come in 1st or have the name Frank Schleck.

Is it possible that I am now more confused than I am before?

To answer your question, yes babastupid it is easily possible that you are more confused than before. Doping is wrong no matter what your level but if you can not see the difference between making others dope to support you and being one of those who was convinced to dope in support, then all I can say is "go the fu(& away and don't come back here. You are too stupid to waste time on.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

You forgot witch-hunt, bitter and jealous ex-teammates, and unconsitutional. Please try again.

And 500 tests, don't forget those.

 

[Galic Ho]

Yeah, and if you cut off everything what happened after 1990, you can easily conclude that cycling was much faster and dirtier in the 80s, than the 70s, and much faster and dirtier in the the 70s than the 60s etc etc

Actually the data represented in that link says otherwise. If you can't see that, well you're beyond help IMO.

As for LA....really? I mean really! He is tweeting his cell phone number? Madness I tell you. It's not like Juan Pelota gets into slinging fests with ChewbaccaD (TFF) on twitter, now they can do it verbally. This will be rich.

 

[BroDeal]

Actually the data represented in that link says otherwise. If you can't see that, well you're beyond help IMO.

As for LA....really? I mean really! He is tweeting his cell phone number? Madness I tell you. It's not like Juan Pelota gets into slinging fests with ChewbaccaD (TFF) on twitter, now they can do it verbally. This will be rich.

I'll put $10 on TFF for the win.

 

[LauraLyn]

Strange blog: "Lance Armstrong Wouldn’t Want Support of 11 Steroid-Using Athletes"

http://amog.com/sports/154446-11-steroid-athletes-lance-armstrong-wouldnt-support/

 

[LauraLyn]

UCI is still waiting for the USADA report on Lance:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...-supply-information-in-lance-armstrong-case_2

We should expect the USADA's reasoned decision in about 2 weeks or so.

 

[Berzin]

Quote your source for this information.

We don't need you regurgitating Race Radio's Twitter feeds as if you know something other people don't.

 

[the big ring]

Maybe Lance DID beat cancer...

http://alohaanalytics.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/lance-armstrong-montage.html

I also learned that after his initial diagnosis, one of Lance's friends who helped him research possible treatments online was a guy named Bart Knaggs.

What were they researching online more effectively than the hospital would have access to?

 

[LauraLyn]

Maybe Lance DID beat cancer...

http://alohaanalytics.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/lance-armstrong-montage.html


What were they researching online more effectively than the hospital would have access to?

Lots of cancer patients do their own research online. It can be very effective. Not all doctors are up-to-date on the latest treatment protocols or newest interventions. It is even encouraged today by governments.

I don't think you will find a single cancer patient organization that councils against it. Quite the opposite.

 

[Turner29]

Maybe Lance DID beat cancer...

http://alohaanalytics.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/lance-armstrong-montage.html


What were they researching online more effectively than the hospital would have access to?

To be fair, Armstrong was concerned about treatment side effects, particularly long-term ones, on the cardiovascular and respiratory systems.

 

[Microchip]

"Reasoned Decision" in approx. the next 10 days.

Race Radio ‏@TheRaceRadio
I expect it to be out in the next 10 days.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

A bit old but a short Gary Imlach interview. He presents TDF coverage on ITV in the UK.

 

[elapid]

What were they researching online more effectively than the hospital would have access to?

One of the problems with treatment of cancers is that people with cancer often are not given a choice in their treatment. This may be because of hospital or clinician preferences, clinician comfort levels with certain treatment options, or ongoing clinical trials for which hospitals are trying to recruit patients.

Lance did the right thing in researching his options and finding what suited him best. The aim of Livestrong is to provide the same service to cancer patients who cannot do this for themselves for whatever reason. My old boss always said that if you cannot be your own advocate (as Lance was for himself) then find someone that will be your advocate (such as a family member of friend with medical knowledge or an organization like Livestrong).

It is only by being informed and asking questions that you can make sure your receiving the treatment you want and that suits your needs and aims, not what the oncologist wants.

 

[AlpineClimbr]

One of the problems with treatment of cancers is that people with cancer often are not given a choice in their treatment. This may be because of hospital or clinician preferences, clinician comfort levels with certain treatment options, or ongoing clinical trials for which hospitals are trying to recruit patients.

And Oncologists may have a financial incentive to choose one treatment option over another.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Actually the data represented in that link says otherwise. If you can't see that, well you're beyond help IMO.

As for LA....really? I mean really! He is tweeting his cell phone number? Madness I tell you. It's not like Juan Pelota gets into slinging fests with ChewbaccaD (TFF) on twitter, now they can do it verbally. This will be rich.

Wait, what? I missed that whole thing. Did someone get a screenshot? I would love to have the guys number. LOVE it. WTF??? I looked on my twitter and I didn't see anything, but man I hate I missed it. He Lance, PM me your number here. I'd be happy to talk with you.

EDIT: Or did he tweet MY phone number?

EDIT 2: He tweeted some Canadian dude's number it appears.

Hey Lance, keep drinking and tweeting. It is mucho entertaining...much more so than watching your drugged up *** sprint up climbs claiming is was all due to an oversized heart and spinning. Dude, I hate to tell you this, but sooner or later, the plates all drop off their sticks. You only think we don't see you madly running around spinning the ones that are left, but we do. The only person you are lying to anymore is yourself.

 

[sittingbison]

Wait, what? I missed that whole thing. Did someone get a screenshot?...

He tweeted some Canadian blokes number. It was all the rage for about 30 seconds.

 

[Von Mises]

Actually the data represented in that link says otherwise. If you can't see that, well you're beyond help IMO.

You said, that cycling is still much faster and dirtier than in the 80s. Data does not show this. It shows that there was unnatural jump from the 90s, but times during last couple of yearas are only slitley faster than in the 80s. If faster at all.



_________________________
I added cool smileys to this message... if you don't see them go to: http://s.exps.me

 

[sairyder]

A bit old but a short Gary Imlach interview. He presents TDF coverage on ITV in the UK.

Thanks, I thought that interview was pretty good, but look at the stuff we are getting in Australia. This article was also published on sbscycling central.

This is a top notch academic publication. I don't know where this lady was getting her info from.

http://theconversation.edu.au/punishing-doping-athletes-isnt-a-long-term-solution-9387

 

[sairyder]

"Some athletes have genuinely doped but, at least in my experience, the majority have been duped by a system charged with preventing and deterring doping in sport."

quote from above article

 

[Ferminal]

Well the final line gives it away, up until then a reasonable point is made, although playing on people's sympathies for Armstrong isn't great either.

The real point is how many have suffered for doing what is found to be normal, and as a result, is the anti-doping regime too harsh on the individual.

Of course that doesn't apply to Armstrong, and the "majority being duped by the system" is utter bull****. They dope, the system catches them (if unlucky), and delivers them a penalty, nothing wrong with that process.

 

[the big ring]

Thanks, I thought that interview was pretty good, but look at the stuff we are getting in Australia. This article was also published on sbscycling central.

This is a top notch academic publication. I don't know where this lady was getting her info from.

http://theconversation.edu.au/punishing-doping-athletes-isnt-a-long-term-solution-9387

Reilly, et al would be proud. What a one sided crock of pus.

 

[x0einstein0x]

You said, that cycling is still much faster and dirtier than in the 80s. Data does not show this. It shows that there was unnatural jump from the 90s, but times during last couple of yearas are only slitley faster than in the 80s.

And it should be faster if you consider advances in technology and training. Of course that's an argument often used to distract from doping practices, but still it is true.

I've personally experienced the transition from steel to aluminum and then to carbon frames, for instance, and of course the difference in power output between those is huge(!). Moreover, exercise science has come a long way since the late 90s, too.

@GalicHo: Correlation and causation are not the same thing. Speed depends on many more variables than just doping.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

And it should be faster if you consider advances in technology and training. Of course that's an argument often used to distract from doping practices, but still it is true.

I've personally experienced the transition from steel to aluminum and then to carbon frames, for instance, and of course the difference in power output between those is huge(!). Moreover, exercise science has come a long way since the late 90s, too.

I completely disagree. Using a simple model, I calculated that the total power absorbed by frames is on the order of a hundred milliwatts when a cyclical input of 400 Watts is used. To be ultra conservative, let's call it 0.5 Watts. That's 0.1% of total input. The difference *between* frames is of course much less than that. At best, let's say a stiff frame is twice as efficient as a flexible frame. That would be a savings of ~200 mW. More realistically, it's well under a 100 mW. That's 0.025% of total input.

Compare that to tires, which absorb ~20% of total input.

And then there's the old "sanity check". How do you use race results to isolate performance differences due to equipment?

I chose two races (Milan San Remo and Paris Roubaix) which have not altered their courses dramatically in the last 50 years. Both are one day races, which eliminates the variables of recovery, nutrition, rest, etc. They also are very long races which emphasize time to exhaustion and sustainable power output rather than peak FTP, etc. If you take a look at the winning times and separate them by decade, there is no significant difference between the groups. There is also a flat trendline and a fairly large but stable residuals (deviation from the mean).

From that I concluded that road conditions and equipment have had little to no effect on race outcomes for the last fifty years. In other words, given a good team Sean Kelly would still be winning classics in this era.

FYI, I also analyzed Tour de France results. That was an eye opener. If you plot average speed for the winner versus stage length you get a nice linear response. 1970 to 1990 all falls along the same line with very small residuals. 1990 to present, you get the exact same linear response with identical slope...

Except that 1990+ the line is almost 7 km/hr above the 1970-1990 line!! From that I concluded that the introduction of oxygen vector doping allowed the riders to recover from hard efforts in a dramatic fashion. That is, they can go hard and fast each day, every day.

John Swanson