Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[fatandfast]

I'm told there is a "riders collective" being formed.

They plan to make a statement on behalf on the peloton.

My understanding is they will create their own set of principles for the Pro Peloton. One being the non-use or certain doctors/trainers.

Watch this space. They also plan to present a set of guideline to the UCI to put into the charter.

will it have 5 year bans for a 1st offense ? Will it have provisions for teams and sponsors to recoup damages if a rider is to have a banned substance in his or her system? Will it have a provision so that after the 5 year suspension is complete the rider will comply with 30-50 tests a year for the first two years back in the sport? It's all BS.
Read what the teams are really saying..we didn't know about Levi's GJ or past legal probe? Matt White,Vaughters and Riis all running teams without ever saying a peep about doping. If that was personal use or systematic use by squad they rode or worked within. Now Vino is in the mix with a team that originates in a country with a pus$y riot type court system.

The charter for pro racers is to sanction a professional union w rules,punishments and law enforcement built in by design. This entirely scattered way they do it now, where Armstrong and his other co-constipaters punished by Colorado Springs, Schleck punished or not by Luxembourg, Contador punished by Spanish federation that voiced doubt in his guilt 2 days after the sample was announced, Vino motorpaced by people at Kasicycle federation was absurd.
The pros need one organization for the few athletes that are riding for a living.
The number is more than a few 1000 max worldwide in every discipline.

The idea that home country federation that almost only primarily oversees the amateur membership still playing a part in enforcing rules on pro riders is f-cking stupid.
Why is Steve Johnson not being asked to take a flying leap after his handling of Armstrong. They just made a press release that they will enforce the upcoming suspensions of Levi and the other dirty half dozen. Give me a fvcking break. Lance has been driving the boat for decades time for everybody in to be thrown overboard, and don't let Ochowicz stand there and try and look innocent. The riders are the product and all this old crappy packaging needs to be tossed in the trash. Starting with Johnson

 

[MarkvW]

He can't. The risk is too great. He has to deal with each lawsuit individually. Confessing kills his negotiation position.

Doesn't matter. Lance CAN'T testify under oath and lie. He would be baiting a perjury prosecution. All the wolves out there know that.

Lance's only defenses are defenses that don't involve an "I didn't dope." component. If Lance has to swear that he didn't dope to win (or deny a few hundred other doping related things), he will lose.

I don't see confession hurting him.

 

[The Gnome]

I don't see how he can confess...I am sure somewhere down the line he has lied numerous times to the feds...if he is thinking of confessing his lawyers are prolly calling the feds to work out a no jail deal...THIS is the time for the feds to step up and play hardball...fine, confess...but you will do six months...don't confess and we will nail you anyhow and give you 5 years...

 

[cineteq]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8490319/usada-case-lance

Not available in my country. Who's there?

 

[reginagold]

From many sources I'm hearing sponsors and events fleeing in real time. The rider initiative will, alas, be a frantic rushed effort as they try suddenly to slow this collapse of funding and events. As long as the functioning of the sport needs/allows for the migration of dopers into management of teams...well, just try to sell that model to the folks spending advertising budgets at any company with global reach. The way forward is not yet known.

 

[The Gnome]

I give 3 to 1 odds Oakley can't now wait til Uci gets back to them about Lance's "official" status...will drop him by weekend is my guess...perhaps by end of today...who knows...but soon...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Not available in my country. Who's there?

Now 67% on ESPN think he doped, compared to 53% one and a half month ago after USADA stripped him of his 7 wins

 

[callac]

Armstrong has stepped down from Livestrong:

LIVESTRONG ‏@LIVESTRONG

Official statement: @LanceArmstrong to Step Down as Chairman of @LIVESTRONG http://bit.ly/P9E17O

retweeted by LA.

 

[Tubeless]

Now 67% on ESPN think he doped, compared to 53% one and a half month ago after USADA stripped him of his 7 wins

Nike dropping Lance is big news. It was on the front page of WSJ - which also reports RadioShack has ended its relationship with Armstrong.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444868204578062313532317222.html

Here's an interesting perspective, plus the famous Nike ads showing Lance touting his critics who don't believe he's racing clean:

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrongs-doping-ads-for-nike-2012-10

Next up: Oakley, Nissan, Michelob.

As for Lance confessing, I'd say highly unlikely. He still retains the support of the "true believers" and would risk losing those fans if he comes clean. And unless it was a total confession, with all the ugly details, his critics would not be satisfied. A person who thinks he's done nothing wrong will never be able to do that. More likely he'll go hiding for a while and will try to make a comeback modeled after Martha Stewart...

 

[Maxiton]

I can't even look at this. It's like watching a train wreck. In slow mo. Not that he doesn't deserve it.

 

[frenchfry]

This is like when in a film the main story is over and there is an epilog that shows what happens to all the protagonists in the end.

The USADA report was a POWERFUL document, so powerful that there was just no way to dispute it. It was a game over situation, and now we are seeing the epilog. No way that the UCI can do anything now. Supporters turning against him in droves. Sponsors gone. Liestrong in shambles. Paid thugs sounding pathetic and desperate. It's finished. In fact when the USADA report came out and it was so apparent the impact it would have, I had a feeling of calm. I spent a few minutes skimming the document, but realised it was only details of what we already knew. Important details, but for now the important thing is the overall picture. Vindictive bully, cheat, serial liar, massive doper. Someday I will sit down and read it, better than a novel on a rainy winter day.

The question now is will the sport of cycling learn something from this? I don't believe for a second that doping is behind us. Things might be better, but there is still a major problem and omerta is still active. This is big though, so maybe this time some good will happen. Maybe the clinic should be kept open for a while longer, just in case.

 

[Epicycle]

Nike dropping Lance is big news. It was on the front page of WSJ - which also reports RadioShack has ended its relationship with Armstrong.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444868204578062313532317222.html

Here's an interesting perspective, plus the famous Nike ads showing Lance touting his critics who don't believe he's racing clean:

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrongs-doping-ads-for-nike-2012-10

Next up: Oakley, Nissan, Michelob.

As for Lance confessing, I'd say highly unlikely. He still retains the support of the "true believers" and would risk losing those fans if he comes clean. And unless it was a total confession, with all the ugly details, his critics would not be satisfied. A person who thinks he's done nothing wrong will never be able to do that. More likely he'll go hiding for a while and will try to make a comeback modeled after Martha Stewart...

What's his avenue for comeback, though?

I think the only thing he can do now is to candidly admit and try to make himself the international voice against doping (not that I think he will do it, but it seems like the only obvious way to make himself a credible public voice again). But he'd probably have to do it quickly to save the LAF/Livestrong. Something like this could pave the way for a political career eventually.

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

Armstrong has stepped down from Livestrong:

He stepped down as Chairman. He is still on the Board of Directors.

I'm waiting for the official name change from the Lance Armstrong Foundation to Livestrong. Hopefully that will be the first agenda item at the next board meeting.

 

[Walkman]

I'm told there is a "riders collective" being formed.

They plan to make a statement on behalf on the peloton.

My understanding is they will create their own set of principles for the Pro Peloton. One being the non-use or certain doctors/trainers.

Watch this space. They also plan to present a set of guideline to the UCI to put into the charter.

I hope they will try to get rid of fatPat!

 

[Fatclimber]

@BreakingNews: Anheuser-Busch VP of US marketing: We will not renew our relationship with Lance Armstrong when current contract expires - @NBCNews

Dominos!

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

The USADA report was a POWERFUL document, so powerful that there was just no way to dispute it.

This needs to be repeated. It's been a week and the most expensive lawyers in the country have yet to respond.

Impressive.

 

[webvan]

When it rains it pours, NOT NORMAL for Dopestrong I'm sure...no one returning his calls...that would hurt anyone but that must be killing him completely.

And all the crap he kept coming out with even though he was heading for the wall

- "we like our word" (after Floyd spilled the beans)
- "Jeff, how's that 4 star hotel ?"
- "congrats Eki on another olympic gold" (after Tyler spoke on 60 minutes")

Dude should have gone into hiding but he just couldn't himself like it was 2001 all over again.

 

[neineinei]

Who threw the yellow bracelet into the fires of Mount Doom? Was it you Floyd?

 

[The Gnome]

Can't you just see it...Lance down in his den, surrounded by the yellow jerseys on the wall...sitting alone in the dark...the assistant popping their head in every hour or so..." excuse me Mr. Armstrong...Nike on line three..."...."excuse me Mr. Armstrong...Anheuser-Busch on line two...the sounds of breaking glass and gutteral screams...

 

[Hawkwood]

Andrew Marr Show last Sunday

The BBC's Andrew Marr Show goes out on Sunday morning. Last Sunday he and two guests were reviewing the papers and two stories they picked out were the ongoing Jimmy Savile scandal concerning allegations that he abused young girls, and the Armstrong case. They linked the Savile and Armstrong cases discussing how they had both made money for charity, but were both unpleasant people. If you live in the UK at the moment you'll know that your name being mentioned in the same breath as Savile's as about as bad as it gets.

 

[Tubeless]

What's his avenue for comeback, though?

I think the only thing he can do now is to candidly admit and try to make himself the international voice against doping (not that I think he will do it, but it seems like the only obvious way to make himself a credible public voice again). But he'd probably have to do it quickly to save the LAF/Livestrong. Something like this could pave the way for a political career eventually.

The Martha Stewart comparison is applicable. She was convicted of a crime and served prison time. Yet she has been able to build up her image and her business to near the old glory. Many are willing to forgive her for the "innocent" slip of not telling the truth to the feds investigating her for insider trading. She was renamed chairman of her namesake company again this year, 10 years after resigning from the same post.

Lance is "just" being convicted as a doper - no prison time, no laws broken. His damage is similar to Martha's - loss of fanbase, loss of income, loss of reputation. But the American public is amazingly naive or forgiving - or simply have a short memory. Lance is still a rock star at his charity events, is welcome to many non-sanctioned triathlon and cycling races - and has friends in high places.

I've held the view for a while that the right penalty for what Lance did ought to be financial. He should have to pay back his fraudulent winnings, ill-gotten gains and shady business profits. That's happening now. Loss of sponsorships, upcoming civil suits, the qui-tam US Postal case, reduced apperance fees, lawyer expenses etc. The longer this goes on, the more justice is served IMHO.

Lance could not stop any of this by confessing - it would simply accelerate his financial losses. There's no upside for him. He can only hope many will forget and forgive due to passing of time. And that he can get back into his "charity business" and rake in money for himself while helping cancer survivors feel they have a friend in Lance. It's not clear it will work - but this is the path I am predicting he will take.

 

[purcell]

Armstrong will not be confessing anything. My best guess is that he being paid very large coin by his money men Backers, to keep his mouth shut, and keep them out of it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

He won't confess. He does not have it in him.

Also Armstrong would never let on that he was bothered much....and he might really believe in his mind that this will all blow over in a while and he can get on with his alpha- life.

 

[Merckx index]

An online poll by trade publication Advertising Age on Wednesday found 71% voting that Lance Armstrong's name had been damaged beyond repair for brands.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/17/news/companies/nike-lance-armstrong/index.html?iid=HP_LN&hpt=hp_t3

And that % is only going to go up.

Pound says more is coming:

There had been too much smoke for too long for unbiased observers not to believe that there must be some fire, as well. What they perhaps did not expect was the resulting conflagration.

You can intimidate some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

I usually like Dan Wetzel, but his take on the morning’s events makes me want to barf. A restatement of the “done too much good for too many people”.

But Armstrong was no threat to anyone anymore. Banned from competition, stripped of his titles, aging, he had plenty of time for foundation work. He can't win anything again. He can't beat anyone again. He's done as an athlete.

This should've been time to regroup and reload in a different way. This should've been time to stand stronger behind Armstrong because, from here on out, his purpose could be clear and true. This should've been a time for Armstrong to gain some maturity and grace and fight harder against the disease that tried to kill him.

If Armstrong inspired a loved one to stick this out for another month or so, or encouraged someone to get a screening that resulted in an early diagnosis, or helped fund even a single breakthrough in research, do you really care what means he used to ride his bike fast up the Pyrenees?

Especially when so many of the other guys chasing him were doing the same thing – trying to cheat him like he was cheating them?

In the grand scheme, that seemed a reasonable trade.

Did he raise money under false pretenses, selling the idea that he was a survivor who became the champion of a corrupt sport when he was really just a survivor who returned to high-level cycling and probably would have won sometimes, just not all the time?

Sure. But it was still money given to fight cancer.

 

[thehog]

Its worth reading the comments the velonews article: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...ong-continues-livestrong-collaboration_261699

Starting with this one:

I have done a 180 degree turn on this whole situation and to the many that I have debated with for the last month on this site and others, I was wrong. A few that will eventually be on here asked me to admit it if it is true after the evidence comes out. I am here to honor that and say that yes, I was wrong to believe and support him. I feel like a fool to have been mislead for so many years. I did always say to wait for USADA's report before condemning and still feel that it was right to wait but it now is all a mute point. I feel so betrayed.

The evidence is so overwhelming it is amazing. I am shocked to have learned that the ring was so monumental. It is a terrible thing and I believe all of them and everyone involved should get a lifetime ban and everything stripped. Clean the freakin house 100% and prosecute where they can. UCI is next and I hope they go down in flames so the sport can become clean. It is the only way to do it.

People really are upset and p1ssed that they were deceived.