Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[sittingbison]

This seems to give more credit to Lance than he deserves. It is like suggesting the school bully controls the school principle.

Lance was and still is not much more than a gladiator. The arena is owned by others, even if he did have their phone numbers in his Blackberry.

Maybe you should pay more attention to what is being revealed about the depth of corruption, and Lances level. Sure he is part of TeamLance with bigger players, but trying to make him out as a bit player is laughable, and more evidence of YOUR perfidy and insincerity.

Start with reading the charge letter.

 

[LauraLyn]

Maybe you should pay more attention to what is being revealed about the depth of corruption, and Lances level. Sure he is part of TeamLance with bigger players, but trying to make him out as a bit player is laughable, and more evidence of YOUR perfidy and insincerity.

Start with reading the charge letter.

I did read the charging letter, thank you for the advice. It contains 6 names, not one.

And each of those names is nothing but a two-bit player in my book. Lance may be their team captain and the team bully, but that is only a slight upgrade.

 

[dadane]

And each of those names is nothing but a two-bit player in my book. Lance may be their team captain and the team bully, but that is only a slight upgrade.

I agree, but never have I seen such a deserving scapegoat

You seem to be hinting at something but not saying it...

Tailwind could well walk out of all this without losing a penny.

 

[LauraLyn]

I agree, but never have I seen such a deserving scapegoat

You seem to be hinting at something but not saying it...

Tailwind could well walk out of all this without losing a penny.

Only if Tailwind dumps Lance. (And that is not hard to imagine.)

Even still, it might be too late for Tailwind.

I don't see Lance as a "Scapegoat". I see him as a criminal, in and of his own right.

 

[dadane]

Only if Tailwind dumps Lance. (And that is not hard to imagine.)

I think that is kind of what I was getting at. At the moment only individuals seem to be hung on the line, not organisations. That includes the UCI - they can easily hang, or be be seen to hang, a few corrupt individuals.

What I can't find with Lance, and, to be fair, my research has not been in any way thorough or exhaustive, is him going into any business venture without much much more powerful backing. It is possible to be a criminal and a scapegoat at the same time and, I for one, hope he gets what is due.

 

[LauraLyn]

I think that is kind of what I was getting at. At the moment only individuals seem to be hung on the line, not organisations. That includes the UCI - they can easily hang, or be be seen to hang, a few corrupt individuals.

What I can't find with Lance, and, to be fair, my research has been in any way thorough, is him going into any business venture without much much more powerful backing. It is possible to be a criminal and a scapegoat at the same time and, I for one, hope he gets what is due.

Oh yeah, you're definitely right (and I slid over that too easily before). He is definitely a scapegoat. Once he refused arbitration it was clear he had been thrown under the bus.

And you are definitely right that he is not the brains behind his business decisions. Getting at Tailwinds financially will be difficult, both legally and politically. Probably even more difficult than getting at the Lance Armstrong Foundation.

Getting at UCI . . . I just don't see it. They will dump McQuaid and dump everything on McQuaid. They will do an "internal investigation", and it will be back to business as usual. And business it is.

USA Cycling is even a more distant dream.

 

[python]

Maybe you should pay more attention to what is being revealed about the depth of corruption, and Lances level. Sure he is part of TeamLance with bigger players, but trying to make him out as a bit player is laughable, and more evidence of YOUR perfidy and insincerity.

Start with reading the charge letter.

you nailed the issue and the not very complicated act.

 

[Turner29]

Even 6th graders can count to 500.

How often does a rider receive a pre-race "health check?"

 

[LauraLyn]

you nailed the issue and the not very complicated act.

Python, get over yourself.

You should read Anna Zimmerman's blog for a good insight into just how big a deal Lance really is in the great scheme of things.

It could be that some people reject the enforced group think here, not because they find anything redeeming in Lance & Co., but because they simply find the group think not always well considered or cogent.

 

[python]

laurralyn you should quit lecturing others on how they should post. get some rest. your shady message has been spotted by several posters. exposing you is a pleasure and easy b/c you post the same around the clock.

 

[86TDFWinner]

500-600, to be precise.

Or was it "hundreds".

Well, something like that.

Anyway, the most tested man on the planet, oops, universe. And definitely no positives, no matter how you count.

Lol, it's a shame someone doesn't ask Lance to post actual proof of his supposed "500-600 clean tests", it'd be a hoot.watching his head.explode trying to explain/spin it.

 

[LauraLyn]

Even 6th graders can count to 500.

Obviously he couldn't keep count, nor could he respond to the USADA's request for an actual list of his claimed tests.

However one does the accounts, he does seem to have perjured himself in Federal court.

 

[hfer07]

La was far ahead of the game on doping controls-just the fact that UCI & Co. Were backing him up to continue winning at all cost speaks aloud of all lengths they were willing to go in order to make that cash cow grow.
Marion Jones showed the world how to beat the tests but LA went even further by creating an entire network to make virtually a nightmare to ever challenging his reign - the doping tests were a small part of his blueprint

 

[python]

Can you quit with the plugs for Anna Zimmerman's blog please?

There are many posters on this forum I say that have been following this sport a lot longer than her but I am supossed to listen to her because she had a twitter exchange with Lance and because you say so. A twitter conversation with Lance does'nt all of a sudden make her opinion better than posters here on this forum.

thanks for exposing lauralyn.

 

[Anonymous]

Obviously he couldn't keep count, nor could he respond to the USADA's request for an actual list of his claimed tests.

However one does the accounts, he does seem to have perjured himself in Federal court.

Which time? There's more than one and then there's perjury all over the place in the civil case with SCA.

 

[LauraLyn]

Which time? There's more than one and then there's perjury all over the place in the civil case with SCA.

Agree. And this is likely to be a substantial part of civil suits against Lance. The question is whether the government will bring a criminal case.

I thought Lance's lawyers were really stupid in the claims they made in the case against USADA. Just outright lies and exaggerations.

 

[dadane]

They will do an "internal investigation", and it will be back to business as usual. And business it is.

That's almost word for word what I posted before.

I am hoping to see something that will blow this thing apart, and maybe the outcome will be, at least, a semi-clean sport. The sad thing is, I don't see it yet, and I don't expect to.

At home, over the years, we have often discussed the matter of whether TdF should just allow drugs and create a different 'level playing field'. And, yes, ASO could turn round and say "we are a private professional event and we do not have to abide by anybody else's rules", but in the modern era they cannot do so without destroying the credibility of the sport of cycling as a whole. And, more importantly, it cannot be done without leaving the window open for more LA style gangsterism and corruption.

UCI will stay in charge, and will continue to play by the same rules as before. Public awareness may be the only thing that can truly turn the tide.

 

[sittingbison]

Can you quit with the plugs for Anna Zimmerman's blog please?

There are many posters on this forum I say that have been following this sport a lot longer than her but I am supossed to listen to her because she had a twitter exchange with Lance and because you say so. A twitter conversation with Lance does'nt all of a sudden make her opinion better than posters here on this forum.

As I postulated on another thread, it's all part of LauraLyn modus operandi. AZ is being used as a tool to bait you. It's all completely insincere, and doublespeak. Plain when you read LauraLyns posts collectively not individually.

 

[LauraLyn]

That's almost word for word what I posted before.

2. I am hoping to see something that will blow this thing apart, and maybe the outcome will be, at least, a semi-clean sport. The sad thing is, I don't see it yet, and I don't expect to.

At home, over the years, we have often discussed the matter of whether TdF should just allow drugs and create a different 'level playing field'. And, yes, 1. ASO could turn round and say "we are a private professional event and we do not have to abide by anybody else's rules", but in the modern era they cannot do so without destroying the credibility of the sport of cycling as a whole. And, more importantly, it cannot be done without leaving the window open for more LA style gangsterism and corruption.

UCI will stay in charge, and will continue to play by the same rules as before. Public awareness may be the only thing that can truly turn the tide.

1. Doping has been part and partial of the TdF since the very first Tour. And it was enforced, required, by the organizers.

ASO, the current owners, could claim it to be private and could run it on its own rules. But then UCI could not be a part of it, and it would separate it away from the Olympic family.

But keep in mind, that unlike in the US, doping in sports in France is illegal. So even if it was private, it could not allow doping.

More importantly, as a society we cannot allow it. We cannot permit our heros to be cheats because it is not the kind of society we want to live in. This is the crux of the USADA's case. Read Travis Tygart's comments.

2. UCI won't blow this apart. ASO won't. And neither will "public opinon" (such a disappointment still regarding Lance).

I think only the riders can save their sport. But I think that is near impossible.

If the riders at today's Vuelta stage lined up on the starting line and refused to move until all the drugs were taken out of the team bags, refrigerators, and hotel rooms; until all the corrupt and dirty sports directors and "doctors" were fired; and until they received guarantees that no young rider would ever be confronted with the choice "either dope or find another team/never race" . . . if the riders did that, that would be game changing.

Do you see a group of 20-30 year olds who have lived their whole life to be on that starting line taking that risk against a barn full of suits? Would but it could.

 

[Benotti69]

Anyway, the most tested man on the planet, oops, universe. And definitely no positives, no matter how you count.

The mask momentarily slips to unveil a fan.

 

[zigmeister]

Have you evidence that he doctors were doing tests. He has has failed at least 2 in competition tests and there are talk of failed tests in 2004/05 and that does not include the failed retests of the 1999 samples.

So the 500 tests is an outright lie no matter the number. He failed tests for doping.

Ok, now this is sounding ridiculous.

Many say over and over he doped and it was a part of the big conspiracy, and claim how his doctors are so advanced and way ahead of the curve. He had the best people in the business to help him dope.

Yet....these doctors are so clueless they wouldn't monitor his blood work and values as part of a sophisticated doping operation and run tests to monitor any values that might trigger a positive?

Even your basic family doctor writing Testosterone gel for some guy will do blood work regularly to monitor hormones and normal blood values.

Furthermore, if the conspiracy is so vast, wouldn't you think they would have access to run tests on his samples that are similar/identical to the ones performed in testing using the same assays by another lab? Or they are the only lab in the world doing the testing in cycling that could detect this stuff?

If you are that sophisticated, then you would find a way to pay a lab to perform the exact test using "aliases". That would give you a good idea of what the levels would show.

To come up with "micro-dosing" levels, somebody needs to play guinea pig and have testing done to know exactly how much to dose right?!?!

Or, as others claim. Meet with the testing/lab people and find out from them what is actually possible with the testing. Which it is purported that he did. But if you are that powerful, have that much money etc..you will get your own testing done and monitor these values.

Lastly, it is routine today on teams to test the hematacrit levels of the riders to ensure they are within the acceptable range. They do that openly.

 

[Benotti69]

Ok, now this is sounding ridiculous.


<snip>

Yes it does.

Now if anyone is suggesting that TeamLieStrong are saying that Armstrong PASSED* 500-600 doping tests and are including the in team testing are as insane as the wonderboy himself.

* It is recorded that Armstrong failed a test at 1999 Tour De France and was covered up by UCI.

*It is also recored that 6 urine samples tested positive for EPO when retested in 2005.

* It will also be made clear when the evidence comes out that Armstrong failed tests in 2004 and 2005.

The silence from Arsmtrong is deafening.

 

[TheSecretForum]

It will also be made clear when the evidence comes out that Armstrong failed tests in 2005 and 2005.

Do you think it will be a suspicious test result or an actual positive test? I hear there are suspicious results all the time that don't make the threshold to positive for technicalities.

 

[Benotti69]

Do you think it will be a suspicious test result or an actual positive test? I hear there are suspicious results all the time that don't make the threshold to positive for technicalities.

There are the anomolies of his blood from Comeback2.0. His comeback was 2009-2011

But if RR suggests that there a positives from 04 and 05 then all will be revealed and they will be positives.

 

[sittingbison]

Zigmeister, not ridiculous at all.

T/E fails were pre cancer, pre TeamLance. And not UCI testing.

1999 was in week 1 of comeback 1.0. A very small amount of corticosteroids ie a slip up, and given he was maxed out on every substance in Ferraris toolbox rather amusing.

2001 was imediately after the EPO test was introduced, they had no idea what was detectable.

2005 EPO was for 1999 samples, which were only tested because it was assumed EPO was taken with impunity due to lack of testing. The truly amazing feature of this experiment was not that Lance failed 6 100% certain plus 2 99% certain tests, but that most samples did not fail (thus leading to the proposition the peleton had backed off post-Festina).

2009/2010 bio passport irregularities show Lance was suffering from advanced decrepitude, and failed to comprehend the new regimen. It also shows that as he was average at best, and ancient, he NEEDED vastly more PEDS than microdosing to drag his **** to third in front of Wiggo